Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: dunkers on September 30, 2007, 09:54:05 PM

Title: Continuation after tool change
Post by: dunkers on September 30, 2007, 09:54:05 PM
Not sure if I'm doing this the right way, but it used to work for me and now (R2.47) it doesn't:

When a tool change occurs on my mill, I run the spindle up the z-axis to give me a bit of room, then change the tool and re-zero the z-axis by running the spindle down until the tool touches. Most times, I also jog the x- and y-axis to find a nice zero-level part of the job. Once that's done, I click the start cycle button and Mach3 moves to where it was when it stopped for the tool change, then carries on.

At least, it used to. What happens now is that the x- and y-axis are jogged way off to the right/back of where they should be. It seems as if Mach3 assumes we're starting from zero on all axis again. Indeed, if I click the move to zero button before continuing then everything is OK. Even if I then jog the z-axis upwards after the goto zero it still all ends up right.

So it seems to me that something is broken in this bit that wasn't before - Mach3 obviously knows where the axis are, but the start cycle overrides that and thinks wherever we are is zero. Hope that makes sense :)
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: vmax549 on October 01, 2007, 11:57:28 AM
Try going to the latest update V2.50 or later. (;-) TP
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: dunkers on October 01, 2007, 02:13:26 PM
Ah, I though the latest was 2.48 - presumably you mean the development version? I'll give that a whirl, thanks :)
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: jimpinder on October 02, 2007, 08:11:07 AM
If you look at the videos, there is one about writing Macros - particularly for a tool change, using M6.

You can write your own macro to move the tool where you like and stop and start etc.

It may be that your macro is a bit fouled up.
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: dunkers on October 02, 2007, 08:56:45 AM
I've completely neglected the macro so I'll have a peek at that, thanks. However, the same thing occurs at other time (that is, when not toolchanging but I need to move an axis for some reason then carry on from where it was). Mach3 used to cope fine without my having to explicitly move it to zero first, so if that isn't what it was meant to do I think I'd like it to be re-broken :)
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: vmax549 on October 02, 2007, 01:32:13 PM
HI dunkers,  there was a certain quirk that showed up around V2.42 that may be related to your position resetting. Try the developemental update before you worry too much. If that does not correct it please let us know.

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: dunkers on December 06, 2007, 05:11:47 PM
Sorry for the long delay on this, chaps - got sidetracked by non-mech earning-a-living stuff.

I just ran up R2.61, downloaded last night, and that's exactly the same - any X/Y jog during a tool change loses track of where the tool is and requires the X/Y axis re-zeroing.

I'm running off PCBs so don't have an absolute zero position. At the very start I zero at the lower left of the PCB, but this isn't critical (since the board will be routed as the final operation). I then have to drill the different sized holes and isolation route the tracks, and the tolerance is very fine.

As I originally posted, a previous version of Mach3 allowed one to jog away during a tool change and then would automatically go back to the position it stopped at for the tool change when you click the start button, but the last few versions just trundle off into hyperspace and bork my PCBs :(
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: stirling on December 07, 2007, 08:50:47 AM
Hey dunkers - thanks for this - you've nearly sent me crazy  ;D I KNOW you're right because I used this feature without giving it a second thought. Now - as you say it's gone - (Been doing single tool jobs longer than I realized because I didn't notice it's passing till I saw your post). In fact I've just reloaded ALL the prrevious versions of Mach3 I have on file (back to 1.83 but missing some) and can't get it to repeat this feature. Maybe we're just imagining it - NOT  ???. - Difficult to know how we ever managed to do a toolchange without it.

Until our collective sanity returns you can use the "Remember/Return" buttons and do it manually. Alternatively you can add a degree of automation (nearly back to what used to be) by adding doOEMButton(286) (the remember button) to M6Start and doOEMButton(285) (the return button) to M6End. Slightly annoyingly it'll pop up the "Return" button dialog but that's about the best alternative I can find at the moment.
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: bowber on December 07, 2007, 10:49:34 AM
I normally used this as well.

I can't see how you'd do it any other way with manual tool changes, Like Stirling I've not done any multi tool jobs for a while, I'll check mine this weekend. If work doesn't get in the way AGAIN.

Steve
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: dunkers on December 09, 2007, 11:14:07 AM
Thanks stirling - I thought I was going crazy for a while :). Bit of a puzzle that regressing doesn't fix it, so maybe there's some setting that got changed during an upgrade.

What I've found as a work around, which does work but leads to tears because I keep forgetting a step, is to do the tool change and then hit the goto-Z button (it's important that the z-axis is set up exactly right before this step). Then lift the z-axis above the workpiece (because the next step is an x/y move without z clearance) and hit the run button. Mach trundles off to where the toolchange started, and carries on.

Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: jimpinder on December 10, 2007, 05:50:19 AM
Unless I'm missing something, I don't know what the problem is.

You can write your own Macro for an M6 tool change. This moves your axis to whatever position you like for a convenient tool change. I've ticked the "Stop spindle, wait for Cycle Start" button on general config. I change the tool then click cycle start and the machine then moves to where ever you want it and carries on. You can use the standard M6 code.

This means I have to be disicplined and write the G Code to take account of the tool change, and it is obviously not as flexible as just jogging to a convenient spot and then hitting a return button and carrying on.

You could write the Macro to remember where the axis was, move away a reasonable distance, wait til you changed the tool and then move back to where it was. I'll write one and post it if you like.

Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: dunkers on December 10, 2007, 12:16:07 PM
I realise I can write a macro and insert G codes into the post, but I'm a n00b and haven't got that far up the scale yet :)

Quote
This means I have to be disicplined and write the G Code ... obviously not as flexible ...

Ah, there you go. I thought the idea of these computery thingies was to make life simpler for wetware like us. I appreciate that some will see this as losing skills, but that's how progress occurs.

However, what you're missing is not that we're required to be disciplined (which I think is a good thing, and I will be one day) but that Mach used to do this and now it doesn't. It's like someone has whipped out the form editor from Visual Basic - technically you can still create dialogs the hard way, but..
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: stirling on December 10, 2007, 02:34:41 PM
not sure if this is the place for this but... here goes nothing...

I've noticed it stated in a few other threads that Art is spending more of his time on the Yahoo group these days...
How can I put this delicately without causing offence or upset? which I sincerely don't want to do but if this is true... WHY? isn't this the Artsoft forum and isn't this thread a perfect example of where we could do with an answer or help from the top man?
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: bowber on December 10, 2007, 03:16:16 PM
The problem with a macro is that the position that you use to zero the tool at will be different for each job.
It's very convenient to just move the tool over on the jog buttons, change the tool and then move over to a bit of the job that's still at zero. Zero the z axis, jog it up a little then press the start button to continue.

By the way I us an ER collet chuck so I can't really use a set tool height with each tool and use tool offsets (I don't know how to anyway  ;))

I've not yet had time to check if my mill still does this but it def used to.

Kind of agree with you Stirling.

Steve
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: Hood on December 10, 2007, 04:57:27 PM
The Yahoo group was here long before this forum. Art and a few others prefer the Yahoo group and tend to use it more, personally I like the forum much better but maybe I am just weird ;)

Hood
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: Hood on December 10, 2007, 05:12:10 PM
BTW what versions are you guys using? I have 2.57 on the mill and I can feedhold, move the tool away by jogging or MPG then press start and it will pop up a prep move box and then when OK is clicked it will go to that position using the safe Z then press start again and it continues.
Hood
Title: Re: Continuation after tool change
Post by: stirling on December 14, 2007, 12:15:06 PM
An update - I visited Art on the paradise resort of Yahoo and he's now fixed this. (R2.62b.000). It's not entirely clear when the M6End macro changed but it now appears to be back the way it was. Good to know we were'nt going crazy and imagining things after all  ;D

Cheers

Ian