Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Green Apple on December 25, 2019, 10:02:29 AM
-
Hi
Sadly I have zero experience with this unit/brand. At this point, I really really really looking for an assistance to set the parameters up properly along with the wiring of an ATV320U75M3C https://tinyurl.com/u6wlkzn (https://tinyurl.com/u6wlkzn)
This ATV320 is a replacement for a perished Huanyang VFD (HY).
So the Mach4 and the ESS is currently configured and wired to run the HY.
Unfortunately the interface of the ATV320 looks nothing like HY
I have a single phase 240V to a three phase 2.2kW spindle.
Thank you, Erik.
-
Hi,
the new VFD is much MUCH bigger than the original and it requires three phase input. Do you have a three phase supply
at home?
Craig
-
According to a Graybar engineer this VFD can be configured to utilize one phase
-
Hi,
the new VFD is much MUCH bigger than the original and it requires three phase input. Do you have a three phase supply
at home?
How would it be, if there would be 4 phases?..
-
Hi,
four phases?
If you mean four phases at 900 apart...yes that might work...but for the fact the VFD has only
three input terminals. Tell me more about your 'four phases'.
A 2.2kW VFD without line reactors will draw about 25A from a single phase supply. Your 7.5 kW VFD would draw
close to 100A! Even with a line reactor it would still draw something like 60A. Does your domestic supply
have that sort of juice? I doubt it.
Of course you only have a 2.2kW spindle and so those currents might never eventuate. What is likely to happen is that
a sudden increase in load will draw significant current which will in turn cause the input voltage to drop and the VFD will
fault 'Under Voltage'.
This also overlooks the problem that there is insufficient DC link capacitance in a device meant for three phase input
but run on single phase.
VFDs intended to run on single phase, that is 2.2kW and less, tend to have multiple large capacitors for DC link smoothing.
A three phase device has less capacitance because it would be charged at three times the rate by comparison
to a single phase unit.
I notice that the terminations of your VFD allow access to the DC link. I would guess that is so your can fit an external
(kick anus) brake resistor. You could use that termination to attach a capacitance bank. You would still have to give
some consideration to in-rush current and you'd be foolhardy to overlook some means of discharging them when the
VFD is depowered.
Is there a reason that you selected such a large VFD?. I can understand wanting to replace the failed HY unit with something
better, and even somewhat larger so that it 'loafs' along but you have gone over the top and now face difficulties in
trying to use it.
If it is new would the supplier swap it for a 2.2kW-3kW unit? Ideally you would look for a VFD that is rated for single phase
input, that is have the larger DC link capacitors with appropriate in-rush protection and discharge mechanism.
Craig
-
Short story is that I have a friend working for the Graybar Electrical and he put me in touch with an engineer who recommended this VFD.
You're absolutely right, I don't have 3 phase supply so I asked if this unit will work on my DIY shop and I was assured that it would work just fine.
I also got a line reactor as it was recommended.
I have not connected any of these parts yet because as I explained in my first post - I am a bit intimidated by the nominal power and wanted to make sure that I'm doing a right thing.
I will, however, ask my friend to elaborate on all the points which where raised in this conversation and I thank you for them!
-
Hi,
I think the quality is very good, streets ahead of HY and it will work on single phase but needs to be derated
somewhat. That's not a problem, even if you derated by a third it would still output 5 kW, way more than your
spindle will absorb.
Note you could restore the rating by adding more DC link capacitance but why bother?
I'm also glad to see that you have a line reactor, most hobbyists don't bother only then to find they have trouble
blowing supply fuses and all sorts of bother with EMI in their machine.
Craig
-
Thank you Craig!
I emailed all the points you talked about to Graybar.
But electrical side is only a part of the problem. Looks like logic wiring is different than HY. For some reason all the pdfs that I have read so far on Schneider's web site are generic.
Terminals on HY and ATV320 are different from one another so it is not apples to apples :(
-
Hi,
HY have always done their own thing, so some of what you learnt with the HY will have to be unlearnt for
the Altivar. Incidentally once you do learn you will find ALL the leading manufacturers excluding HY do very VERY
similar things.
On the Altivar there is a whole bunch of logic level inputs DI1, DI2, etc. They are digital inputs. You need to program
the VFD to tell it want you want each input to mean. For instance I see on the HY you have one FWD and one REV
input, you must program the Altivar to do the same.
Most market leading manufacturers have software meant to reside on your PC and connected to your VFD by a serial
cable to program the EPROM in the VFD. Does your device have it? If it does get it set up, programming by button pushing
is possible but an exercise in frustration.
Craig
-
yes, Altivar has a RJ45 jack and I ordered a cable for it, should be here next week and I downloaded the SoMachine software.
As I mentioned and as you pointed out it out configuration is different I just need to figure out how to program the ATV320.
Erik
-
Hi,
I just bought four Delta B2 series AC servos and I had been trying to program them by button pushing...it is
possible but you make so many mistakes. I had to buy a specialist cable, in the event I bought a genuine the
Delta accessory. It has made life SO MUCH easier, aside from all the tuning aids built in.
When VFDs come from the factory they are usually set up for 50Hz or 60Hz motors being the industry standard use for
VFDs. If you hook up your 400 Hz spindle WITHOUT programming the correct parameters first you will blow either
the spindle or the VFD or both!
What most people fail to realize is that a VFD is essentially a voltage to frequency converter.The control voltage is 0-10V.
The output voltage will vary as the frequency changes, this is called the V/F curve. With the VFD as setup from the factory
if you apply 10V input the out put will be 60Hz at full voltage namely 230VAC three phase. Your spindle will hate that,
its supposed to get full 230VAC three phase but at 400Hz, if you apply full voltage at only 60Hz the current will be through
the roof, the coils inside the spindle will be horribly magnetically saturated and BAD things will happen.
Amongst the programming parameters are the max frequency, most users find that and set it to 400Hz but don't realize
that there are other parameters that set the voltage at intermediate frequencies.
Lets take a really simple example. If your spindle is rated at 230VAC at 400 Hz then at 200 Hz you would apply half the voltage,
namely 115VAC, at 40Hz you would apply 1/10 of full voltage namely 23VAC. This is a simple linear V/F curve.
There are rather more sophisticated V/F curves but provided you get the idea that the output voltage must drop as the
frequency lowers then you will have no run-away currents and bad things won't happen.
Craig
-
Quick update
I downloaded the SoMove application and ATV320 DTM Library.
First impression is that this VFD is highly programmable/customisable and quite complex ... not something to jump in not knowing what to do.
-
Hi,
First impression is that this VFD is highly programmable/customisable and quite complex ... not something to jump in not knowing what to do.
All modern VFDs are like that.
Craig
-
How do you set up the ATV320 for auto manual control? https://www.se.com/ww/en/faqs/FA332557/ (https://www.se.com/ww/en/faqs/FA332557/)
What is this mysterious auto manual control is yet to be discovered and learned about.