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Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: jevs on August 25, 2019, 11:02:22 PM

Title: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on August 25, 2019, 11:02:22 PM
Any idea why I get "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered" on  at bootup?
Nothing seems to be triggered, and homing works fine.
If you just ignore this, things seem to work fine, but it is annoying seeing it every time like there is something wrong...
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: Grimey on September 02, 2019, 05:08:23 PM
Does your setup think the homing switch is a limit switch? Try setting soft limits correctly and turning them on.
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 02, 2019, 06:56:04 PM
Does your setup think the homing switch is a limit switch? Try setting soft limits correctly and turning them on.

No and soft limits are on and set correctly. I have separate limit switches and homing switches.
The homing switches are a bit in from the limit switches at the homing side of the axis. The Z homing is real far from the limit switch because it has to move above homing to do the tool change. It should never hit the limit switches, but if you did hit the limit switches by doing something wrong your dead in the water because they kill everything until you hold down my limit override switch to bring it off of them. It should never hit the actual limit switches during normal operation unless something is done wrong. 
When it says this stuff on boot up, no switch is active. From what they said on the Warp9 forum this could just be that it sees something active during the boot up sequence before it is all done initializing, but is not really a problem since it is not really an issue once it is all booted up and homed.

From the Warp9 forum:
"......Depending on your wiring, your specific limit switches and your break out board, your limit switch signal may very well be active (as supplied to the ESS input pin) even though your limit switch itself may not be activated. A lot depends on the power up sequence and states of that other hardware. That being said, there is no issue with just ignoring that message at startup,and as soon as you press the enable button that message will be gone (assuming you are using v246 of the ESS plugin)."
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: Grimey on September 02, 2019, 06:59:24 PM
ok, so what message you get when the limit is actually triggered?
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 02, 2019, 07:37:53 PM
This has to be done intentionally with soft limits off or no homing but.....
if I intentionally run it thorough the home switch and on past to hit the limit switch:
Home switch X Home tripped!
Limit switch X ++ tripped!
Limit switch Y ++ tripped!
Limit switch Z ++ tripped!
Limit switch X -- tripped!
Limit switch Y -- tripped!
Limit switch Z -- tripped!
-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on  Motor Limit 0++  Motor Limit 1++  Motor Limit 2++  Motor Limit 0--  Motor Limit 1--  Motor Limit 2--

Limits are all tied together in series. This is why you get all of these if any is tripped.

The messages I get at boot up from the ESS are kind of random also, it is not just the "----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" It will sometimes say other things are tripped. It is kind of random. However it does not really affect anything because hitting enable clears it all and everything works. It all works fine after that and you home it. It is just a little annoying that the ESS flags this stuff until it gets itself communicating with Mach4 at bootup even though it is not real...
It would be nice if you could turn off any initial error flagging until Mach4 is fully booted and the ESS is in full communications. 
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: Grimey on September 02, 2019, 07:55:18 PM
are the switches mechanical or electrical?
why series them?
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 02, 2019, 08:17:25 PM
This is the way the machine was made originally by Fanuc (for Pratt & Whitney). They are mechanically actuated "electrical" switches. They mechanically make or break the electrical path. They are industrial switches with the roller tips. This is all barking up the wrong tree though. The ESS reporting things being tripped has nothing to do with the switches or being wired in series. The limit switches do not need to be wired independently. The homing switches are though.

The ESS is reporting false states at initial communications presumably because of what I quoted from the Warp9 forum. I cannot say what is is actually on the pins where it is connected to the BoB at boot up. The BoB (Machmotion IO6) and the ESS are both powered up before Mach4 boots though. the ESS is powered from the BoB.

I am not sure this is anything that can be fixed. It may just be the way it is and ignore it. It does not affect any operation. I just don't like seeing the messages at bootup when they are not real. I would have to put a scope on the pins to the breakout board and try to capture things to see what the ESS is really seeing during this time. Even if I do see it, I don't know what I could do to stop it from reporting those until things are in full communications.
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: Grimey on September 02, 2019, 08:39:19 PM
Well, the ESS board is getting a signal that the limit switch is active on start-up. I doubt it's a random start-up state in the controller. If the limit switches are, in fact, series-connected then they must also be normally closed (and open when activated).

Hypothetically, if the switches have a bad contact (and a slightly resistive path to ground or Vcc), then that will allow the pin voltage to float and produce a seemingly random error. A loose (or resistive) switch connection would do the same thing.

You may also be getting electrical noise on start-up that feed into the switches. Check the machine ground connection.

Monitor the voltage on this pin. A DVM may work but will need an o-scope to see the transients though.
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 02, 2019, 09:42:57 PM
I can test this theory pretty easy by just holding down my limit override switch at bootup. This switch shorts the limit switch pins right at the BoB. It is pretty new compared to the original limit switches and should produce close to zero ohms and no possibility of a floating or resistive connection.
I will try it tommorow night.
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 02, 2019, 10:07:17 PM
I just went out and checked this. No difference. Making a dead short on the limit switch pins during bootup does not change anything.
It still gives all the limit warnings on bootup. The signal shows rock solid in the ESS diag and trips perfectly when opened while hitting a limit.
I see no issues with the limit switches.
 It could just be the way the ESS sees the BoB signal when mach4 first starts. Not sure....
I may stick my meter right on the pin at the ess and watch it to see what happens...
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 03, 2019, 08:37:12 AM
I have an idea I will check tonight. I have the "Charge pump runs in EStop" unchecked in the ESS settings. Maybe my BoB could be holding the limit switch circuit hostage until it sees the ESS provide the charge pump signal?

This is from my BoB manual.

"Charge pump circuit and enable signals
When there is no E-stop condition and the Mach3 software based control is running
properly, Mach3 outputs a steady pulse stream to the IO6 breakout board. The IO6
receives this pulse stream and sends an enable signal to every axis mod jack
connector, on mod jack pin #4. It also enables all outputs of the IO6. If this pulse
stream is interrupted, the IO6 will correspondingly disable all outputs from the IO6.
This safety circuit prevents spurious outputs from the PC from producing unexpected
results.
The charge pump circuit energizes a relay that provides a pair of bare relay contacts,
and +5V & +24V enable signal for system integrators to use to implement other safety
measures. We also provide direct access to the charge pump signal. This phoenix
terminal is located on the Auxiliary Terminal Block. (See Figure 2)"

My E-stop and limit switches will kill the drives and stuff regardless of the ESS condition, so I am going to try turning this option on in the ESS so that it keeps the charge pump alive to see what happens.

I may need to rethink how I have my limit switches and E-stop wired with Mach4. Not sure yet. What I have now is very effective for safety though. The limit switches basically produce an E-Stop condition since they are in series with it.   
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: Grimey on September 04, 2019, 06:39:29 PM
You have all the switches series-connected. Surely, the boot-up message you're seeing is not due to the "E-stop message..." always displayed on start-up due to the series-connected switches?
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 04, 2019, 07:20:00 PM
I think this is solved and likely what should be expected now with my setup.
Checking the "Charge pump runs in EStop" for the ESS seems to have gotten rid of the issue. I did clean up a few other settings as well while I was going over things with a fine tooth comb.

Now I get "E-Stop Cleared!" as my current message at boot up.

If you open the history, this is found, which I suspect would be considered normal for my setup:
-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on
E-Stop cleared!
E-Stop condition!
E-Stop cleared!

Before it listed out many of the things using those limits and kinda random on the message it would end up on. It was always one of the ones related to the limit input and which one would come up last seemed somewhat random. Now it is always the same with a positive message at boot up. I think this is resolved.

Now if only someone could answer my question on how to setup an MPG for velocity mode.....that is the only thing left not resoled on my Mach4 upgrade at this point (until I start using it and want to change something).
For now I just set that setting to .01" incremental and 100% velocity unless someone posts a solution. I have emailed Machmotion, Artsoft, and posted here. No solution yet. Machmotion does not have a solution for it (and does not support my setup since it is Mach4 now). Artsoft first response was that they didn't seem to understand what I wanted to do for some reason. I am not sure if I will get another reply to my response or not.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: Grimey on September 04, 2019, 07:22:54 PM
Noice!
Title: Re: Getting "-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on" at bootup of mach4
Post by: jevs on September 09, 2019, 09:26:57 PM
So I discovered another little issue that also improved this issue a bit more as well......

Now I only this get at boot up.
-----ESS: Limit Switch triggered on
E-Stop condition!
E-Stop cleared!

You can read about it here:
https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=41757.msg272906#msg272906