Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Frank1959 on July 10, 2019, 03:26:23 AM

Title: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: Frank1959 on July 10, 2019, 03:26:23 AM
I mill polystyrene to make the occasional theatre or museum prop, and sometimes even dinosaurs and the like, on a home built 4 axis machine, using MACH3,   and DESKPROTO to create  tool paths. Check out http://www.formato3d.com/ One big step to achieve faster finishing came with the addition of a hot wire roughing sequence, made possible using a work around within DESKPROTO  that BR549 very kindly suggested.

I´m a sculptor, (www.franknorton.com) and my current project is  to build a machine capable of milling stone, obviously super-rigid and a much more powerful spindle. Initially it will be 3 axis plus rotary, but with a view to 5 axis. I want to do bas-reliefs in marble and sandstone.
Industrial software packages like ALPHACAM STONE   for tool-path generation in the stone and granite  sector have a function where they use diamond coated discs, the smaller ones in the region of 12”/300mm in diameter,  to rough “mill” the block of stone, the surplus material  is then removed manually by hammer and chisel!...before true milling with diamond and tungsten carbide tools. This greatly reduces working time.
But I know of no software...DESKPROTO definetely cant...that allows you to configure a disc as a tool for roughing out in this way.
Failing the use of a specific program which includes discs in the tool library, any tool-path 3D software where all the tool geometry parameters are configurable....diameter in both planes for example, or diameter in one plane and thickness in the other......would do.
Any ideas?
Many thanks in advance,

Frank Norton.
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 04:02:19 AM
Hi,
this may not be of huge value to you given the price of the solution that I am going to suggest.

Mastercam allows you to construct a profile of a custom tool. I have, or rather had, when I had access to Mastercam,
a cutoff disc.

I would guess some of the high end Cam packages would allow you a similar feature, namely to construct a custom tool.

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: Frank1959 on July 10, 2019, 04:31:22 AM
Thanks Craig,
yes and no, obviously the price of MASTERCAM   is over the top for my present level of expenditure, but yes, it might point in the right direction...i.e. a software that allows you to profile a custom tool. Nice one!
Frank.
(Ps, love your sense of humour re wife and best friend ;D)
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 06:56:47 AM
Hi,
BobCad has the same feature.

It would appear that Fusion 360 has the ability to define custom tools including a slot mill type, of which a disc is just
a logical extension.

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: Frank1959 on July 10, 2019, 07:31:15 AM
many thanks,

again!

Will let you know,

f
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 02:35:39 PM
Hi.
apparently VisualMill Standard ($1500) has the ability of the user to define a half profile which is revolved into a custom tool
much like Mastercam.

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 02:43:52 PM
Hi,
Vetric Aspire has the ability also according to the advertising material.

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 03:03:32 PM
Hi,
apparently Vcarve Desktop ($350) and Vcarve Pro ($600) have the same feature.

Quote
Form Tools - custom shaped cutter profiles

The software allows you to add your own custom tools shapes to the tool library and generate toolpaths and simulate the finished result!

Now you can simulate the effects of complex Roman Ogee cutters, Round Over bits and any other custom tool shape you desire. Simply draw the tool profile using the vector drawing tools or import the profile from the manufacturer and you can add your custom tool to the list. In the tool database you can specify feed rates, spindle speeds, cutting depths etc. in the same way that you do for any of the standard tool types.



Vectric Form Tools

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: ger21 on July 10, 2019, 03:38:25 PM
No, Vectric products won't do this. They only allow standard type end mill/router bits. And they don't support tools with undercuts, either.
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 08:08:48 PM
Hi Gerry,
interesting, the quote in my previous post was from the Vectric site.

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: ger21 on July 10, 2019, 08:52:12 PM
The quote is correct, but it doesn't say you can create a saw blade tool.

Another issue with a saw blade is that the toolpath needs to be aligned with the blade, sort of like a tangential knife. But you can only make straight cuts. I've seen this done in videos, and I think it was with a 5 axis machine.
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: joeaverage on July 10, 2019, 10:34:15 PM
Hi Gerry,
I was able to make a 'saw blade' profile with Mastercam, but you are right... I had a battle trying to convince Mastercam to
generate a tool path for such a tool. I did get it to work but I had to write bits of Gcode to get the 'blade' into and out of the workpiece.

I think the correct term is 're-entrant shaped tool', thus by retracting in Z axis alone causes a crash.

I am very in-expert in CAM of any description but re-entrant tooling is a challenge.

Craig
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: Frank1959 on July 11, 2019, 03:13:22 AM
thanks guys,

Ger, when you say "Another issue with a saw blade is that the toolpath needs to be aligned with the blade, sort of like a tangential knife...."
But isn't any tool path ALWAYS  aligned with the tool?? Or  is it a case of the tool path being aligned with the spindle axis, which is the same axis as a cylindrical tool, but with a disc, the tool path would be  at 90º to the spindle axis.  Maybe  I am  getting confusing (or the subject starts to get confusing for me ; - (

Also, you mention "But you can only make straight cuts." For roughing out material, the cuts could be "straight" in say X or Y axis, but they would obviously need to follow the relief of the 3D form in the Z axis.


And lastly you mention , "I've seen this done in videos, and I think it was with a 5 axis machine.". Yes, here´s one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GQmgyviNRU  , a Chinese machine, which interestingly combines a disc AND a milling tool in the same tool holder.

 Both ALPHACAM (British i think)  and PEGASUS CADCAM (Italian) are stone CAM programs that use discs to rough out. But, we are talking about prohibitive prices.....

I´m investigating if BOBCAD can do this, as a reasonably priced alternative....any user out there happy with it? And also, Rhino+Madcam...both seem under what ALPHACAM  costs.

thanks!

Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: ger21 on July 11, 2019, 07:53:54 AM
I doubt that BobCAD can do it, and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
I'm pretty sure that only the very high end programs will be able to do this.

Quote
But isn't any tool path ALWAYS  aligned with the tool??

There is no alignment with a typical spindle. You can cut in any direction. With a sawblade, you can only cut in the direction the blade is aligned with.
Title: Re: 3D tool-path software for milling with discs instead of cylindrical tools?
Post by: Frank1959 on July 11, 2019, 10:08:01 AM
gotcha,thanks

f