Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: kevin r on April 06, 2019, 01:40:43 AM
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Sorry for the dumb question, but can Mach 4 run on a Mach 3 controller? My suspicion is not, but the web site says to start with Mach 4 if you've never used Mach 3...
Thanks in advance for direction and patience.
Kevin
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Hi,
some controllers like the ESS can run Mach3 OR Mach4 but the majority do not.
Mach4 is more capable but Mach3 has, and still is, satisfying a lot of people. If there is something specific
you want or need from Mach4......if not then Mach3 will be very nearly as good.
What controller do you have?
Craig
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Sorry for the dumb question, but can Mach 4 run on a Mach 3 controller?
Which Mach3 controller do you have (make and model) ?
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Thanks for the replies....you've confirmed my suspicions....
I'm using a Chengdu XinHeCheng....or....WiXhc MKX-V, USB board.
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Thanks for the replies....you've confirmed my suspicions....
I'm using a Chengdu XinHeCheng....or....WiXhc MKX-V, USB board.
YOUR WiXhc MKX-V, USB board ONLY supports MACH3 NOT MACH4.
The only card from that same company that supports MACH4 is:-
Model: MKX-M4
That can be used as:
1. MK3-M4：3 axis motion card.
2. MK4-M4：4 axis motion card.
3. MK6-M4：6 axis motion card.
http://www.cdxhctech.com/html/eProduct/view_216_406.html
It is better to migrate to
WARP9 ESS to reap all the potential capabilities of MACH4.
https://warp9td.com/index.php/products/#details
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Hi,
those XHC controllers are rubbish, avoid like the plague.
https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=36023.0 (https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=36023.0)
Craig
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Mr Average: What do you suggest as a replacement, if I continue with Mach 3? I'm just getting started, so am open to following this path, or jumping ship to Mach 4. If I change to Mach 4, will my stepper drivers have to change as well?
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Hi,
What do you suggest as a replacement, if I continue with Mach 3?
If you stick with Mach3 then your existing XHC controller will work. It has a few failings in terms of what it supports and
what it does not, things like lathe threading and THC. If you require realtime support for a specific function, say, THC,
then do your homework otherwise the XHC controller will disappoint.
If you are just starting out in CNC then I would recommend Mach4, it is still being developed whereas all Mach3 development
ceased five years ago. Going straight to Mach4 does represent a bit of a hurdle, you will have to get a compatible controller
for instance. That will cost somewhere in the region of $120-$250 for economically priced units and $600 plus if you want
really high quality.
I personally use and like the Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9. The same board can be used for either Mach3 OR Mach4.
With Mach3 it is fully featured with things like lathe threading and THC. The vast majority of realtime features works in Mach4
but THC is being beta tested now.
PMDX-422 by PMDX, the 57CNC by PoKeys and the UC300 by CNCDrive are all worthy of consideration in the economical
market segment.
The PMDX-422 is for Mach4 only. The other two have both Mach3 and Mach4 plugins. They do not have a full suite of
realtime functions so careful research is required if there is something specific you need.
The Hicon Integra by Vital Systems is very capable and high quality at $600 for the base model. Extra functionality adds
to the cost.
The last word in quality is supplied by Galil. Be prepared to pay $2000 for a three axis controller.
If I change to Mach 4, will my stepper drivers have to change as well?
No, the stepper drivers that work with Mach3 will work indentically with Mach4.
Craig
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The PMDX-422 has been replaced by the PMDX-416 which adds opto-isolation to the inputs and allows direct to panel mounting.
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Hi,
I previously posted that the model of choice was the PMDX-422, that was mistaken, the flagship model is PMDX-424.
The PMDX-416 is a smaller cheaper version of the PMDX-424.
The 416 has only five optoisolated inputs whereas the 424 has 9. Additionally the 424 has 230VAC to DC supplies on board.
Craig
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Documented/USER Proven SUMMARY
MACH4 MACH4 MACH4 MACH4
Plasma THC Threading Backlash Comp Laser
UC300ETH(CNCDRIVE) NO NO YES YES
57CNC (Pokeys) YES YES YES YES
PMDX-424 NO YES NO YES
ESS (Warp9) YES (BETA) YES YES YES
Hicon Integra (VITAL) YES YES YES YES
Please correct any mistakes...
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Hi Kevin,
when you think about it the controller is likely to be the one component of your machine which is never replaced
and it pays therefore to select a capable and quality unit because you will have it for years.
Over a period of time it is likely that you will change steppers for lower inductance units, thinking I wish I'd known
about inductance from the start. Just as possible that you'll end up with Gecko or some other high quality, high voltage
stepper drivers and matching toroidal transformer power supply.
You may find yourself ditching steppers altogether for servos.
You may find that while you started out with Mach3 that later you want the flexibility and the new functionality of
Mach4. Its likely to that the 'leftover junker' PC that you are using will get replaced, maybe more than once.
In short there may be little or nothing left of your original machine after five years as you modify and upgrade as experience
and budget allow.
What is likely to remain the same is the external controller. If you choose wisely the manufacturer will be releasing
firmware updates to match Mach's (Mach4 is still coming up with new stuff) increasing functionality.
The good news is that any of the manufacturers that I have listed ALL produce quality boards and each has a well
founded reputation for supporting their products in service. Just because they are all good quality does not mean they
are all the same. For instance the UC*** series by CNCDrive do have both Mach3 and Mach4 plugins they are not
fully featured as some of their competitors, particularly their Mach4 plugin has only basic realtime supports without
backlash comp, lathe threading and THC.
If you follow any of my posts you will find that I'm very scathing of XHC, especially their claim to having a functional
Mach4 plugin. If my comments appear overly vehement and bordering on Chinese bashing please accept my apologies.
The shame of it is that the XHC boards appear to be good quality but they have not and will not invest the time and the
energy to develop robust and Mach compliant firmware. They also have a bad reputation for support, if you encounter
a problem for which you want their help you will discover that they might as well be on another planet.
I notice Reuel has posted a list of supported realtime features of various Mach4 controllers, and well done Reuel.
The manufacturers seem somewhat reluctant to publish exactly what their device does and does not do. I believe
Reuel has it correct.
If I were to construct the table I would include another column for Spindle PID. Additionally it would be qualified
by either 'single pulse per rev' vs 'encoder input'. To my knowledge the ESS has both, the PMDX has single pulse
capability, the Hicon can be activated (at a cost) to do it. To my knowledge neither the 57CNC or UC300 do not have it.
Spindle PID is very useful for threading ops.
I would have yet another column for Onboard Programming. PoKeys has the ability to program simple functions
on the controller board without Mach's oversight and therefore generate custom realtime functions. The Hicon
also has this ability but again a cost applies. The PMDX and UC300 don't have it, nor does the ESS although
Andy (Warp9) has expressed a development goal of an onboard API.
Craig
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Thanks Craig, Reuelt. Much appreciated.