Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: scooternauman on January 17, 2019, 08:44:48 AM

Title: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 17, 2019, 08:44:48 AM
 Hello all, My name is Scooter. I'm a CNC machinist of over 20 years but this is my first build and I'm a bit confused at this point as to where my problem is.
  A little about my project: I have a 3 axis Central Machinery mill with a conversion kit I purchased from Heavy Metal CNC. I have a Longs Motor CNC kit I purchased from Ebay (that came with no documentation) The kit included 3 Nema 23 425 oz. stepper motors. I am trying to run this unit with my laptop which is a Windows 10 version / 64 bit system. I'm also using a parallel port to USB cable.
  I downloaded the Mach 3 demo to see how user friendly it is. The download appeared to go smoothly. I also printed out the Mach 3  installation and configuration manual (version 3)
  I think things started going sideways when I got to section 2.4.1 in the manual talking about running a driver test. I was told by Long Motors that my kit was set up for Mach 3 so I don't know if I need to install drivers and if I do I don't know where to locate them.
  I believe I have my dip switches set correctly as well as my ports and pins (I'm not 100% but pretty sure) When I power up the machine I think I hear the motors power up but I'm not quite sure because of the constant ringing in my ears caused by my years of machining. lol. I can still turn the ball screws with my hand and that doesn't seem right. Also when I try to jog the axis's thru Mach 3 the DRO shows movement but I get no movement on the machine.
  I'm kind of at a loss at this point of how to troubleshoot this thing. Any advise at this point would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: bryannab on January 17, 2019, 09:20:15 AM
Hello Scooter,

Mach3 cannot use the parallel port to control your machine in any 64-bit system. You can use an external motion controller with your current computer, however. You will need a motion controller with a Mach3-compatible plugin in order for the software to be able to communicate with the hardware. You can scroll through the forum for an idea of what motion controllers you should or shouldn't use and I'm sure others will be more than happy to make a recommendation. In the meantime, I have included the system requirements for using Mach3 below. We also offer email support via our helpdesk, support.machsupport.com. That is always an option if you need some more individualized help as well.

Happy CNCing,
Bryanna

Mach3 Minimum Recommended Requirements

Requirements if using the parallel port for machine control:
Desktop PC with at least one parallel port
(Laptops are not supported)
32-bit version of Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7
(64-bit versions will not work)
1Ghz CPU
512MB RAM
Non-integrated Video Card with 32MB RAM
(Large G-code files, especially 3D files will require a video card with 512MB RAM or higher)

Requirements if using an external motion device for machine control:
An appropriate external motion controller
(options can be found on the Plugins page)
Desktop or Laptop with Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 10
1Ghz CPU
512MB RAM
Video Card with 32MB RAM
(Large G-code files, especially 3D files will require a video card with 512MB RAM or higher)
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 17, 2019, 09:22:18 AM
ok i think you have something simular to this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4Axis-Nema23-stepper-motor-425oz-DUAL-SHAFT-Driver-DM542A-CNC-Longs-Motor-/200998727736

this set has a parallel port breakout board.

for pp you have to have a pc with win7 32bit, and a real parallel port.

usb to pp will not work, does not matter witch win Version you have.

if you want to use win10/64bit you have to go to a external Motion Controller.

like uc100, smoothstepper ore something lik this.


oops Bryanna was faster  ;)
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 17, 2019, 10:34:02 AM
 Thank you for the speedy response. I was wondering if that could be an issue. I guess I'm going to start looking into my options. Thanks again. I'll let ya know how it goes. :)
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 18, 2019, 01:12:43 PM
 OK, so I found an old computer this morning at the flea market that's running windows 7. After the Mach 3 install I attempt to run the driver test and I keep getting a window popping up that says: No Driver Sensed Installed. Run Driver Test
Any suggestions? 
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: bryannab on January 18, 2019, 01:14:27 PM
Is the computer 32-bits? And did you choose to install the parallel port driver during install?

-Bryanna
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 18, 2019, 01:25:20 PM
Darnit  I forgot to check the 32 bit thing and as my luck would have it. Its a 64 bit. I guess I'll be going back to the flea market tomorrow morning.  :'( What did I get myself into. lol
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 19, 2019, 01:10:53 PM
OK, I'm back with a 32 bit system. I reloaded Mach 3 along with the parallel port driver. Successfully ran the driver test with a system excellent result. Reinstalled the info for the ports and pins. I still have no axis movement and now the DRO's are showing no movement either. According to what I've read I should have movement at this point. Or am I mistaken?
 So as I'm playing around here I see if I turn the estop port to 0 I show movement on the DRO's when I set that port back to 1 it keeps alarming with external Estop requested?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 03:30:21 AM
here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWVKJUnSLUc

i found a Video witch describes the wiring of the motor's and Drivers to the breackout bord.
it also describes the e-stop.

maybe it helps.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 08:08:23 AM
Hey TPS, Thanks for sharing that video. The way he wired both pulse- and dir- to ground doesn't make sense to me. I could be wrong though. I basically followed these videos I found. FYI most of the wiring is in the second video but there is some in the first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nEdwtdRYuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKQjRCsfZaE
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 09:07:37 AM
anyway i think both solution should work(but not sure).
even here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN7VospeGN0
is an other one with common GND wiring.

if you Switch everything on, do you have Holding torque at your Motors?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 09:22:41 AM
When everything is powered on i can feel some pull on the ball screws but i can still turn them by hand. It just feels different when powered on.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 09:28:19 AM
what Motors do you exactly have?
how are dip switches (SW1-SW3) set on the Motor Controller?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
I have the longs 425 oz stepper motors. p1=off p2=on p3=off. the only others on are 6,7,8
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 09:35:13 AM
ok the Switches are set to 2.36A, i think then you should not able do turn the Motor easily by Hand.

where is the enable of the Driver wired too?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 09:38:52 AM
for the Motor wiring:

A+ black
A- green
B+ red
B- blue
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 09:44:00 AM
The drivers are DM542A with a max peak of 4.2A. According to some papers I found online with 1,2,3 off= 4.2A. So I just switched to mach. Can still turn by hand. My enable is not wired at all (just like in the video I shared.) My PUL+(+5v) and DIR+(+5v) are wired to the +5 volt side of my terminal block(as in the video)
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 09:49:56 AM
I have
   red=a+
green=a-
 black=B+
  blue=B-
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 09:50:04 AM
according to this Manual:

http://fablab.web-5.org/lib/exe/fetch.php/documentation:drivers_mpp:dm542a-manuel-20130925.pdf

i do not think you can leave enbl+ unconnected.

make a quick Connection to 5V just to be sure.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 09:51:40 AM
I have
   red=a+
green=a-
 black=B+
  blue=B-

i have been using this:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/Stepper-Motor-4AXIS-Nema-23-425oz-in-23HS9430B-3A-dual-shaft-DM542A-Stepper-Driver-CNC-Router/32620908893.html

as wiring reference

this also say's enabl+ Needs to be connected
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 09:59:03 AM
let me switch my a+ a- b+ b- to match what you sent and see if that does anything. I the link you shared enable as not connected.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 10:03:35 AM
see attached
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:07:14 AM
YAY! Little victories. By switching my A's and B's  I can no longer turn ball screws by hand. Still no movement of axis's though.  Enable+ huh? Let me run some quick jumpers.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:19:52 AM
OK so, I ran jumpers from my +5 volt to the Enable + on each drive. I have a powerful hold on my ball screws but still no movement of any axis.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 10:23:26 AM
due searching for a Manual for your breakout bord, there seam to be different Versions.

do you have this Version, with the jumper's,
and are both jumper's set ?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 10:26:08 AM
btw are your axis dro's changing if you try to jog?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:27:03 AM
Yes that is the board I have and both jumpers are jumped.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:29:00 AM
yes the DRO's are showing movement in + and - directions
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 10:29:45 AM
i assume you are using the Standard 1024 sceenset.

is the reset button permanent green or flashing ?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:31:48 AM
permanent green if I disable the ESTOP. Constant flashing when I set ESTOP port to =1
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 10:34:25 AM
just to confirm:

-Settings -> Port's&Pin's -> Port Setup and axis selection -> Port 1 is enabled
-Settings -> Port's&Pin's -> Port Setup and axis selection -> Port 1 adress is set correctly
-Settings -> Port's&Pin's -> Motor Outputs -> axis is enabled
-Settings -> Port's&Pin's -> Motor Outputs -> Step Pin , Dir Pin and port are correct
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:43:59 AM
port 1 is enabled. port address is in question. axis is enabled. I'm pretty sure i have pins and ports correct. x=2,3 y=4,5 z=6,7
if i go into my control panel I'm not sure what I'm looking for. 
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
when i click on devices in my control panel all it shows is a microsoft xps document writer and I'm not sure why that is
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 10:50:24 AM
sorry have only a german version
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 10:57:43 AM
lol I wish I knew what that said. However the only devices shown connected in my control panel are wifi adapter , keyboard,moniter, pc and mouse.
I deleted the document writer because there is none.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
but you said, you run drivertest succesfuly?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:03:15 AM
that is correct
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:04:16 AM
just ran it again and it says system excellent
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:06:10 AM
can't run drivertest here (64Bit), is there any port adresss shown?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:07:40 AM
no port shown
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:18:08 AM
try to Win Start - run - systeminformation (hope it is simular in the english Version)
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:22:30 AM
run - msinfo32
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:23:18 AM
what exactly am i looking for?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
for the E/A adress of your parallelport LPT1

Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:26:54 AM
I/o Range 0378-37F
I/o Range 0778-077B
DMA 03     
  ??? is that what you mean?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:31:48 AM
exactly,

and the 0x378 is in Config -> Port's&Pin's -> Port#1 -> Port Adress ?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:33:15 AM
yes
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 11:35:14 AM
phu, the box with the ideas is getting empty.

i think one of the next test' would be a "hardcore" test of the parallel port simular to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uglCm_qsojk
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 11:39:21 AM
Well I really appreciate all your help up to this point. We did make good progress. I'm gonna watch this video and put some food in my belly. I'll be back
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 12:32:42 PM
OK, so I just confirmed all pins 2-9 are working as they should according to that video. Although he was getting slightly over 4 volts my readings were a steady 3.32 volts.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 01:19:16 PM
ok, could not find any specifaction of the breackout bord, that it is working with 3,3V PP.

you can do the same test at the Outputs of the breakout board.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 01:30:27 PM
my readings were a steady 3.32 volts.

but 3.32v one direction and 0V other direction?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 01:37:46 PM
somethings amiss here. p2 on the breakout board is a steady 1.58 volts in both directions.
p3 is at 5.14 in the down dir. 1.58 in the up dir
p4 is at 1.54 in both dir
p5 is at 5.14 in the left dir 1.58 in the right dir
p6 is at 5.14 in to down dir 1.58 in the up dir
p7 is at 5.14 in the page down dir. 1.58 in the up dir
so it seems there might be an issue with p2 and p4?
What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 01:38:51 PM
yes with the 3.32 and 0.
Now keep in mind My breakout board is 5 volt
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 01:40:18 PM
somethings amiss here. p2 on the breakout board is a steady 1.58 volts in both directions.
p3 is at 5.14 in the down dir. 1.58 in the up dir
p4 is at 1.54 in both dir
p5 is at 5.14 in the left dir 1.58 in the right dir
p6 is at 5.14 in to down dir 1.58 in the up dir
p7 is at 5.14 in the page down dir. 1.58 in the up dir
so it seems there might be an issue with p2 and p4?
What are your thoughts?

have you connected a Motor to p6/p7 they seam to work

did you measure PX to GND  or PX to 5V?

Motor Controllers connected or not?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 01:44:06 PM
yes. p6-p7 are my z axis. no movement.
p to ground
motor controllers connected
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 01:51:12 PM
so if you take the wire from p6, witch is the step Signal from z, and put it GND ,away from GND, and back to GND
by Hand the Motor should do one step every time you do this.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 01:57:41 PM
yes it appears to be doing just that
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 01:59:37 PM
p to ground

and if you test Px to 5V, because this is the way the Motor controllers are connected.one pin is enough
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 02:00:00 PM
yes it appears to be doing just that

means Motor Controller is working
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 02:05:28 PM
same thing happens with p2 to ground and p4 to ground so it would appear the controllers are fine?
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 02:10:02 PM
same thing happens with p2 to ground and p4 to ground so it would appear the controllers are fine?

yes that means all Motor Controllers are working.

i would now Z axis P6/P7 as shown in my Video

step- and dir- to GND
step+ to P6
dir+ to P7

that is one of the last ideas now

don't Forget to Setup p6/p7 in Port's&pin's

Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 02:39:51 PM
I'm not sure about the ground idea.
this is how I am wired and it matches the schematic you linked earlier
x axis=
PUL+ to  5 volt power supply
PUL-  to  P2
DIR+ to  5 volt power supply
DIR-  to  P3
ENABLE to 5 volt power supply

Y axis=
PUL+ to  5 volt power supply
PUL-  to  P4
DIR+ to  5 volt power supply
DIR-  to  P5
ENABLE to 5 volt power supply

Z axis=
PUL+ to  5 volt power supply
PUL-  to  P6
DIR+ to  5 volt power supply
DIR-  to  P7
ENABLE to 5 volt power supply

Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 20, 2019, 03:46:54 PM
i mean how it was shown in the two Videos

PUL+ to  P2
PUL-  to  GND
DIR+ to  P3
DIR-  to  GND
ENABLE to 5 volt power supply

and so on

i am out for today, it is getting late here.
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 20, 2019, 04:27:04 PM
Hey thanks again for all your help. Progress was made. Have a great evening.
 I just tried wiring with a common ground as shown in the videos.
Still no movement from motors.
TTYL
Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: TPS on January 21, 2019, 02:44:01 AM
somethings amiss here.
p2 on the breakout board is a steady 1.58 volts in both directions.
p4 is at 1.54 in both dir
so it seems there might be an issue with p2 and p4?

here you can a test of the 25pol cable to make sure that P2 and P4 are connected here.

and for additional testing i think a oszlisocope is needed to check P2,P4 and P6 that there
a pulse stream is created.

Title: Re: Newbie to cnc building in need of some help please
Post by: scooternauman on January 21, 2019, 04:57:48 AM
So I wanted to rerun the testing of the pins on the drive side before work this morning. It appears I had something wrong the first time.
All pins 2-9 are acting as they should. 5.12 volts in the "on" dir. and 1.1 volts in the "off" dir.
I tested all pins twice.
Once with the drives disconnected.
Once with the drives connected.
Same results both times.
Off to work I go.
TTYL