Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: jeep534 on January 10, 2019, 08:00:30 AM
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I have a cnc lathe with a Fagor control the computer and access boards were damaged somehow (prior to my purchase) the lathe as far as i can tell has not ran in quite some time. it would boot but not run. After sending the (box) back to Fagor it was determined that repair or replacement / upgrade would be out of my price range. On the order of 13,000 USD. My plan is to integrate it with Mach4 and a Galill DMC 4133 motion controller. This is a full on flat bed cnc lathe built about 15 years ago. It has 3 servo drives (X Z and spindle) with loop closed at the computer. it also has 2 hand-wheels . My goat is to get the machine back up and running with the hand-wheels and existing buttons integrated with mach4. This is the direction i am planning to take. The lathe has been taking up space in my shop for 3 years so it is time to get on with it.
I know there are many pieces to this puzzle and i am reaching out to the old hands for guidance. I would guess the first question would be has anyone else done this like i know Hood did a Hardinge 16C chucker with tool changer some years ago with mach3.
any comments- help would be greatly appreciated.
Happy Hunting
archie
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We have 3 lathes running Mach4; 2 of which are flat bed lathes. I chose the HiCON Integra from Vital Systems as my motion controller. I'm using that on several machines in the shop with excellent results.
One of the lathes we have is an old LeBlond that was a manual lathe, we stripped the old drive stuff off of it and added ball screws to the X and Z axis. I added handwheels on the carriage because it is over 60" long. All works very well.
I don't have a tool changer on this lathe, but I have one on another lathe that is working great with Mach4 and the HiCON Integra.
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What kind of drives/servos? Analog or positions controlled?
The Galil 4133 will run either type. But lathe threading hasn't been implemented in the Galil plugin yet.
Steve
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steve $#(#$)() No threading that is a deal breaker for me any idea when it might be implemented. i think the drives have analog inputs
Thank You
archie
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Chad 235 miles away maybe I can arrange a field trip....
archie
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Come on down sometime.
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steve $#(#$)() No threading that is a deal breaker for me any idea when it might be implemented. i think the drives have analog inputs
Well... I pretty much need a lathe that has a Galil on it to implement and test the threading. I had started the conversion of my manual lathe years ago just for this purpose. But it is not finished and probably won't be for a while because I really just don't have the time to get it done! :(
Kenny Crouch, the other programmer on the Galil plugin, has moved to St. Thomas Island in the Caribbean and could not bring his lathe with him. So... we just really don't have any machine to test with at the moment.
Steve
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We have 3 lathes running Mach4; 2 of which are flat bed lathes. I chose the HiCON Integra from Vital Systems as my motion controller. I'm using that on several machines in the shop with excellent results.
One of the lathes we have is an old LeBlond that was a manual lathe, we stripped the old drive stuff off of it and added ball screws to the X and Z axis. I added handwheels on the carriage because it is over 60" long. All works very well.
I don't have a tool changer on this lathe, but I have one on another lathe that is working great with Mach4 and the HiCON Integra.
Long story but I have 2 lathes and a mill the two lathes have the fagor controls on them. they have Fagor servo amplifiers loop is closed at the control not at the servo amplifiers. after looking at the Hicon documentatuon there are extra units and software options that have to be paid for anyway what are you driving with the hicon boards.
archie
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steve $#(#$)() No threading that is a deal breaker for me any idea when it might be implemented. i think the drives have analog inputs
Well... I pretty much need a lathe that has a Galil on it to implement and test the threading. I had started the conversion of my manual lathe years ago just for this purpose. But it is not finished and probably won't be for a while because I really just don't have the time to get it done! :(
Kenny Crouch, the other programmer on the Galil plugin, has moved to St. Thomas Island in the Caribbean and could not bring his lathe with him. So... we just really don't have any machine to test with at the moment.
Steve
Steve, how much of a process is it to get the plug in to work do you just need a guinea pig 8)
archoe
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One lathe has Servos and Drives from Automation Direct, one lathe has GSK Servos and Drives, and another is just running steppers. All with the HiCON Integra.
We have an SL3 that me and my brother want to get the closed loop feature added on to just to see what kind of difference it makes, but we have really had great success with all 3 lathes without the closed loop feature.
Most of our I/O is being controlled through a PLC. Much more stable signal and if I have any random ideas for the machine, I can run them through the PLC and not have to worry about Mach taking care of trivial things, like the lube pump or chip conveyor.
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Steve, how much of a process is it to get the plug in to work do you just need a guinea pig 8)
archoe
It is a big process, unfortunately. I would pretty much need to be sitting right beside the machine. Program, then test. Rinse and repeat until it is done. So I need to have easy and quick access to the machine. This is the whole reason I was converting my lathe. Because I had thought that would be the only way to get it done. Doing something like threading "virtually" is probably an impossibility, orr it would take forever and a day. :(
Steve
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One lathe has Servos and Drives from Automation Direct, one lathe has GSK Servos and Drives, and another is just running steppers. All with the HiCON Integra.
We have an SL3 that me and my brother want to get the closed loop feature added on to just to see what kind of difference it makes, but we have really had great success with all 3 lathes without the closed loop feature.
Most of our I/O is being controlled through a PLC. Much more stable signal and if I have any random ideas for the machine, I can run them through the PLC and not have to worry about Mach taking care of trivial things, like the lube pump or chip conveyor.
chad,
i am going to pull some covers today and verify the loop was closed at the control all servo systems have feedback it just depends on where the following error is monitored at the drive or closer to the computer I would think that the harder you drive a machine the more you might see a difference in behavior. I am going to attempt to use the drives and servos that are on the machine they are new. the machine has or had a PLC in it somewhere. All of this is going to be a steep learning curve for me. mach 4, servo systems, PLC ect. screen writing maybe
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Pretty nice looking lathe.
Hopefully you will be able to use the existing motors and drives.
The first PLC I used, we programmed a Tool Change Routine for a Hurco VMC; so it won't be too bad.
Luckily, on your lathe, you have a nice control panel that already has the handwheels and buttons on it, we had to make ours.
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Well I had to make one of the "hand wheels" what holds the encoders it had only one. I will round up a couple of photos and post them Manual lathes and a drill press.
archie
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Pretty nice looking lathe.
Hopefully you will be able to use the existing motors and drives.
The first PLC I used, we programmed a Tool Change Routine for a Hurco VMC; so it won't be too bad.
Luckily, on your lathe, you have a nice control panel that already has the handwheels and buttons on it, we had to make ours.
Chad,
what Plc's are you using with the integra and how did you figure out / learn how to program them
thank you
archie
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I'm using the Click PLC on 4 machines and rhe BRX PLC on one machine. Both PLCs are from automation direct. The Click is less expensive and is still very powerful. Now that you cam search on the forum, you can search for "Click PLC" and get a few hits on this forum.
I learned a few basics from YouTube. Just searching for PLC ladder logic. But mostly by just opening the software and digging in.
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Chad Byrd, I have an electronically dead Nardini 17 x40 in my garage, 20T Fanuc on it. id really be interested in hearing everything you might be willing to tell about your lathes, probably with the exception of the GSK unit. im thinking steppers myself, or finding some DC servos very similar to the ones on my (also electronically dead) 3 axis cnc acra turret mill knee driven, so I can use them across both machines. if anyone else has comments also interested. perhaps send by pm so as not to muck up Archies thread. engine lathe no tool changer. I will be looking primarily at PMDX or the UC controllers.
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Chad Byrd, I have an electronically dead Nardini 17 x40 in my garage, 20T Fanuc on it. id really be interested in hearing everything you might be willing to tell about your lathes, probably with the exception of the GSK unit. im thinking steppers myself, or finding some DC servos very similar to the ones on my (also electronically dead) 3 axis cnc acra turret mill knee driven, so I can use them across both machines. if anyone else has comments also interested. perhaps send by pm so as not to muck up Archies thread. engine lathe no tool changer. I will be looking primarily at PMDX or the UC controllers.
If I were looking to replace what I had on my lathe (which I am not) I would only be looking at ac servos which are step and direction like the cnc techniques or the dmm units In my case the servos and drives are new which makes me very reluctant to tear it apart archie :-)
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Chad.
I did some measuring today and it looks like the 19 inch monitor that I have will fit in the space where the monitor goes on the lathe and possibly a small form factor PC behind it . otherwise I want to rename this thread "poking around in the dark". It looks like I am going to have to pull alot of the guarding off of the machine to get to the motors and wiring. I guess I am going to get way more intimate with this machine than I ever wanted to, like with another brand new manual machine i purchased the the same time i got this Lathe. A story for another time.
Happy Hunting
archie :)
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f I were looking to replace what I had on my lathe (which I am not) I would only be looking at ac servos which are step and direction like the cnc techniques or the dmm units In my case the servos and drives are new which makes me very reluctant to tear it apart archie :-)
for me Archie, I have the dc already on the mill and work fine, for 10 years with just brush replacements and blowout the carbon. I also have a spare, so want my lathe to use the same motors, amps, and electronics as close as possible.
ken
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Hi,
for me Archie, I have the dc already on the mill and work fine, for 10 years with just brush replacements and blowout the carbon. I also have a spare, so want my lathe to use the same motors, amps, and electronics as close as possible.
Yes, I understand that....but what sort of servos are they? If they are analogue then PMDX or UC********* are not going to work.
Craig
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good question shows my lack of electronics knowledge, 4 brush dc motor, approx. 4" dia x 12" long, 250 ct encoder on end of ea, belt driven ball screws ?x reduction (count in pc based control built by CNC Automation of Amherst NH is 12000/inch) driven by westamp A711X series servo drives. motion board is obsolete one from mid 90s by Mechtronix. want all old stuff gone, new either Mach4 or UCCNC. if I go with Mach4, most likely PMDX, but still thinking using likely UCCNC's biggest amps. does that help? leaning PDMX because of what I read here of Mr Stallings posts, and a telcom with them, seem willing to help with my questions. does that help? have pics.
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Archie,
Retrofitting a machine means sometimes getting extremely intimate with a machine. Haha. I know that only too well. But it depends on the motors and drives amd their compatibility with the motion controller you choose, whether you replace them or not.
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Archie,
Retrofitting a machine means sometimes getting extremely intimate with a machine. Haha. I know that only too well. But it depends on the motors and drives amd their compatibility with the motion controller you choose, whether you replace them or not.
not wanting to muddy the waters ( this will be for another thread) i have 6 ea 140 volt dc brushed servo motors and 1 larkin 200 servo drive for a mill and other projects
archie