Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: lumber60 on July 18, 2018, 12:24:10 PM
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How do i set work 0 and how does that relate to offset settings?
Do i have to set offsets first?
Do i start the test program tap file in mach 4 from home 0?
i need some help
Ken
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Hi Ken,
if you don't have home switches, which I guess is quite likely as you are still experimenting, then if you hit <Ref All> the machine will
reference itself to its current location, sometimes called 'Home in Place'. That will mean that the machine co-ordinates of the current location
will be 0,0,0. The axis LEDs will go green, which informs you that the machine is referenced.
Referencing means MACHINE COORDINATES. They are what Mach (3 or 4) uses as native positioning but are not usually used by us, mere humans
that we are. For us we would jog to one corner of the material and the zero each axis. Note that 'zeroing' an axis is different to 'referencing' an axis.
When we 'zero' an axis or axes we are setting WORK COORDINATES. Work coordinates are much more user friendly, its easy to visualize 2 inches
from the left corner and 2 inches up from the left corner of a piece of wood you are working on say. Work coordinates are intimately related to offsets.
The offsets are the translation from Machine Coordinates to Work Coordinates and are used by Mach but seldom by us. Further if you follow the
procedure...reference (home) the machine, jog to the start of the job and then 'zero' the machine the offsets are automatically defined and stored.
Craig
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Hello Craig,
I want to thank you again for all your help. I am starting to see myself making progress and getting a few dumb dumb moments as well as a good laugh out loud one to, my wife thinks it's funny when i call myself names.
It's getting a bit exciting even at this beginner stage.
I have limit switches that i use as a home switch as well. Is that not a good idea?
Does that change anything in the homing and zero process?
Ken
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Hi,
I have limit switches that i use as a home switch as well. Is that not a good idea?
My preference has always been separate home and limit switches although the vast majority of users combine them. I understand you use a
UC100 which does not have many spare inputs so you'll probably be required to combine them.
I have an ESS and so have plenty of inputs and have individually wired switches, because I can. It works extremely well with no operator
confusion.
Craig
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Yes, you are correct i use a uc100.
I don't know what a ESS is. Something electronic control i would guess.
OK back on track. Am i understanding that for each Gcode project i set up i have to zero the axes to the dimensions of the material or is this done in the cad/cam program when it asks for the material dimensions input when creating the Gcode?
Ken
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For each project you have to set your Work Coordinates Or Work Offset.
When you clamp your work piece in a vise or on the table, the machine (Mach) has no idea where that is; therefore you have to tell it where the Work Zero is for the Work Piece.
CAM will ask where you want the starting point; it can be in a corner, the center, or etc... wherever you decide X, Y, Z Zero will be in CAM is where you need to set X, Y, Z Zero on the machine.
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thanks, i will try to work this info through and give you a shout.
Leaving tonight for a week away again, always something to do in summer. I will be back at it next week Saturday
Ken
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How do the offset settings relate to all of this and do i need to set them up???
Ken
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Hi,
How do the offset settings relate to all of this and do i need to set them up???
No, that happens automatically.
When you turn on the machine and enable Mach hit <Ref All Home> and the machine will reference itself by driving to your home switches
in turn and thus set the MACHINE COORDINATE 0,0,0. Now manually jog to the corner (or maybe the center depending on how you drafted the Gcode)
of the piece of material. <Zero> each of the axes, the WORK COORDINATE 0,0,0. That will automatically update the offsets. The offsets are the numbers
that translate from the machine 0,0,0 to the work 0,0,0.
Craig
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ok, i think i go it. I have a problem the z axis i think. Going down from positive home zero to work , dro shows positive. If i understand right down in the work piece should be a negative movement, is this correct.
I have been dry running some gcode tap test files and watched the dro;s and noticed this. x& y seem to be ok. I tried the pos and neg switching in the setup and 0 negative becomes positive.
OK Craig time to walk the dummy to the next step
Help
Ken
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By dummy i mean me
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Ken,
Z Axis moving down is negative. Be sure that movement is correct.
The top of your part is usually set to Work Offset Z 0, when the top of your part is set to Z0 then any work on your part will be negative.
How are you getting your G Code, from CAM?
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Hi,
if you are observing MACHINE COORDINATES in your DROs then I would expect Z=0 to be at the top of travel
and moving downwards would go more negative.
If you are observing WORK COORDINATES then I would expect a positive number say 100 mm at the top of travel and
as the Z axis goes downwards it would decrease until the surface of the material at Z=0 and below the surface
of the material would be negative. Thus if you stopped at Z=-1mm then the tool is cutting 1mm off the top surface
of the material.
Craig
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My z axis dro reads shows neg and the axis is going up with zero in the down position
ken
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I double checked it and what i said previously is correct.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
that is the correct direction but normally Z=0 is at the top. The machine coordinates don't matter
that much, Mach uses them. You will use Work Coordinates.
Anyway once you hit <Zero Z> on the surface of your material you'll be set.
Craig
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OK, the machine plunges faster than retracts, it works away from material rather than into it
I will never run out of material this way, LOL.
ken
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Hi,
whoops I think I'm confused my self now!
In WORK COORDINATES jog <Z+>. Does the Z axis go up? If so every thing is correct. If not
then the Z axis is reversed relative to industry wide understanding.
Craig
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OK, Are work and machine coordinates the same or is this a sample of the two names for one function???
Yes, z up and down in machine coordinates. Down is home zero up is negative
ken
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Hi,
Are work and machine coordinates the same
No they are not the same.
Machine coordinates are relative to the 0,0,0 set by your home switches.
Work coordinates you can shift around and are usually zeroed to one corner of the piece of material.
The Work Coordinates are numerically equal to the Machine Coordinates + the Work Offsets.
Your description is still confussing. Hit <Z+> jog button. Does the Z axis go up?
Craig
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Positive button moves in neg direction and vise versa
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Hi,
that is still not the question I asked. Does it go up or down?
Craig
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Machine coordinates zero at top as well as home position.
To jog down i have to push the positive button.
The dro gives a positive reading.
Is this what you are asking me????
If not i will keep trying to answer your question.
Thanks
Ken
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I have nothing on my machine that says work coordinates, all i have is a button that says machine coordinates to which i can turn on/off and 2 sets of readings on dro's.
Ken
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Well I was playing around with profiles and selected router instead of my created profile . This is a totally different screen set than the profile that i created.
I chose initially the router profile set for profile but not the screen i got. Much bolder and less selections.
I think this is part of the problem. Should I delete my profile and start over and do my settings carry over if i do that?
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Ken,
Nothing on your machine will say "work coordinates".
The X, Y, Z, and A DROs on your main screen ARE the work coordinates.
Also, you said that to jog down you have to push the positive jog button.
This needs to be fixed to where jogging down is negative. so in Mach Configuration in the motors tab; go to your Z Motor and Check the "Reverse" check box.
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I saw your screen set in the background and that is not what i have. I cannot find anything under motor config that says reverse.
I am thinking that when i set up inital profile that something is wrong. I thinnk i will try setting up a new profile and go from there. will my settings carry over if i do that???
Ken
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Ken,
You will lose all your settings if you create a new profile. Make another profile if you want to try that, Just don't delete the profile you have now.
Did you reference the picture I attached? I have the Reverse Checkbox outlined.
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Yes i did refference your pic on screen and that when i saw your back ground pic was nothing like mine and i had nothing on front pic as you had circled, no reverse there.
Give me awhile and i will have he new profile set up and let you know what is going on.
Ken
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Take a screenshot of your motor configure screen and attach it.
It should be there. Also, what version of Mach4 are you using? Go to Help --> About --> and the Build#
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I think that reverse check box him no worky at least on mine with a ESS it don’t just change the step dir from active low to high or high to low in other words if it low make it high if it’s high make it low
That needs fixing before you go any further else bad things will happen when you run gcode
Ref all
Use MDI to tell Mach what tool you are using eg T1 M6
WCS. To put it in its most basic least accurate way put a tool in the spindle jog over until the center of the cutter is over the corner of your work and nearly touching the work ,then zero XYZ. DRO’s now you have the WCS set and the tool length set . For that job only
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Hey Stuart,
Depending on the motion controller the Reverse Checkbox will change it.
I've had to do just as you, change the high to low in the Plugin Config for an ESS here at work, but on the HiCON Integra, I just have to check this checkbox I am referring to.
Personally, I think the Mach Configure Checkbox should be the Reverse Override and not the plugin pin output, it should communicate that information over to the motion controller.
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ok this is my screenshot link. Tell me what your ideas are LOL. Kind of going Gooffy
Ken
https://mail.google.com/mail/ca/u/0/?ui=2&ik=a19f226350&view=att&th=16500e380b1f3e3a&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zwcc
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Don’t want to join google mail
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I have gmail and can't open that. Can you just attach a .jpg?
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Not real sure how to do it. I will swing the bat and see what happens
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OK try this
https://mail.google.com/mail/ca/u/0/?ui=2&ik=a19f226350&view=att&th=165010a89d9ee276&attid=0.1&disp=safe&realattid=f_jkeblkj00&zwKen
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Hi Ken,
when you are posting just to the left and below the text input pane there is a 'Additional Options' link.
When you are ready to attach a picture or diagram or whatever hit that.
Note that the attached file will have to have a unique name, the website will not accept a file with an indentical name.
Also if you are attaching photos please preprocess them on your PC so they are about 500kB. Many people post pics which are so big
you have to scan around to see it all and often still miss the critical detail that was the purpose of the pic in the first place.
Craig
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OK , i had no idea that this screen was even here. All i have been doing is from the quick response at the bottom of the post page. I read your message and looked all over and found nothing for options. I thought well if i wasn;t the dummy before i am now if i have to post that i can't find it. I started to respond and clicked preview and bang i found it.
ken,
LOL my wife thinks i am nuts, she herd me say o---------t out loud
let me know if the ayyachment is there
Still laughing errer occured
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I don't know how to preprocess
ken
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well i changed over the screen set and found the reverse check box in the motors config. Tried to reverse z axis ,it changed nothing, still backwards as before. There is no diagnostic tab now.
Ken
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Yeah, the router screen for some reason doesn't have a diagnostics tab. I did notice you are using the UC100 motion controller. I don't use those so, like Stuart (I think) mentioned earlier in this thread, you may have to go into the pin config and reverse the pin high/low from the plugin.
Also, I just noticed that Artsoft put a video on YouTube about work offsets, maybe Bryanna saw this thread lol.
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Hi Ken,
open Mach4 and use the view tab and select wx4.set.
This is a better screen set, it has all the features and will do everything and more of your current screen set.
If you like it just close Mach and your profile will be updated to use it instead. Easy.
Craig
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Well I hope if she did it was tasteful LOL.
Ok now here comes the rub, i went through the setup again and changed the pin to low and all seems to work ok. Not to excited but anxious to move on to the next item. Machine works into the wood now.
THANKS TO ALL
Ken the Dummie got educated again!!
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Craig is the pitcher , here comes the ball and swing another home run in the same game.
Excellent suggestion and thank you all. i just might win this game.
Ken
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why not use the G54 G55 ...?
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KatzYaakov,
This thread was about how to set work zero. G54, G55, etc... are work coordinate offsets of which you can set a work zero in.
Ken was wondering the difference between WCS and Machine Coordinates and then ran into other issues with his machine setup.
G54 - G59 is something Ken can learn about now. Having multiple work offsets is very useful when running more than one operation.
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I have been in and out the past few weeks and will getting into the discussions soon. Learned a bunch of things along the way.
Ken
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OK here we are again. I am having some great success, now i have some more questions. Why does my gcode load and use only the top right corner of my work envelope. No matter how i change the drawing before generate the code it still loads top right. Offsets are set, code will run with everything cramed in that corner. Regenerated tool path and same thing?????
Ken
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OK i guess i forgot how to post to. Work 0 is fine . My gcode loads into top right of work envelope and don't know how to change it. Everything gets cramed in there. Re-gen tool path doesn't help.
Ken