Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: flobo on May 06, 2018, 06:20:00 AM
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Hello,
I have 2 problems with my spindle.
1. if I set M3 S10000 the spindle starts but the VFD says 12969 RPM (I measured it with a laser and the VFD number is +/- 1% correct). I managed to bring all 3 inline (MACH3, VFD, Spindle ) with the minimum speed in the spindle pulley setting but if i then use a different speed e.g. 15000RPM it is off again. I tried to auto calibrate the spindle but that didn't help at all. It seams that the spindle speed curve is just not linear. Any suggestions on how to takle that problem?
2. If the spindle is running (M3 S10000) and i try to increase or decrease the speed with e.g. M3 S15000 it just always goes to full speed (24000RPM).
My Setup:
- Mach3 on a Laptop
- Simple Mach3 breakout board with parallel port
- Huanyang VFD
- 2.2kw air cooled Chinese Spindle 0-24000RPM
Thanks
Flo
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Hi Flo,
Mach3 using the Parallel Port is a combination that is not recommended / intended to be used with a laptop. You may get away with it but you will always encounter problems of one sort or another and this spindle issue may just be one of them.
Either, use a dedicated PC or an external motion controller with your laptop but they must be dedicated computers and not connected to the internet / receiving updates etc.
Tweakie.
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I heard people saying this that is why I looked for one that would work and also changed all settings accordingly in the BIOS.
Also stepper and everything else works just fine.
I wonder how the Auto-Calibrate should work since there is no feedback of the actual RPM or anything and also no feedback line from the VFD
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You will need (single slot) sensor feedback from the spindle for the Auto Calibrate function.
Also stepper and everything else works just fine.
Maybe, but don't count on it. ;)
Tweakie.
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i assume you use 0-10V for spindle setpoint.
so take a Voltmeter and check the 0-10V is linear to your S-Value first.
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I had the same issue on a Huanyang VFD on a UC100 controller, non-linear 0-10v scale. I changed the VFD to a Bosch item and it worked perfectly after that.
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I just tried building my own index sensor with a inductive sensor, hocked it up to P10 and defined it as an index pulse. But obviously the sensor can not handle the high RPMs.
What would i use instead and how do I hock it up?
I also measured the Voltage:
Mach3 VFD volt
5000 9900 1,62
6000 10455 1,94
7000 11030 2,27
8000 11660 2,64
9000 12290 3,0
10000 12940 3,39
11000 13600 3,76
12000 14300 4,17
13000 14970 4,56
14000 15600 4,96
15000 16440 5,41
16000 17170 5,84
17000 18000 6,32
18000 18770 6,77
19000 19560 7,23
20000 20455 7,74
21000 21300 8,24
22000 22252 8,8
23000 23160 9,32
24000 23890 9,75
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Hi,
many inductive sensors have a low bandwidth, 50-100 Hz and such sensors are not adequate for index signaling. Hall sensors are appropriate.
Is there a particular reason you need really accurate speed? In most cases you just set the speed, often as fast as it will go, and leave it there. Who really
cares what speed it is?
Craig
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you also may take a look here:
https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=31386.0
where am other user has solved the Problem with "handmade" spindle calibration.
because if i have a look to your values, even the 0-10V Signal is not linear.
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@ joeaverage thanks for the hall effect sensor tip. will try that. And yes I could just set the speed so it ends up being the right settings but i would like to experiment with a few different Spindle speed settings. And also I would like to get it right ;)
@TPS this sounds like a good solution if I can't get the hall effect sensor working. Thanks!
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Hi,
my experience which I doubt is unique was that I spent a lot of time getting speed just right,
FWD/REV etc only to find that I don't really need it.
Do you have any LH mill tools or drills for instance? When using my high speed spindle for routing (24000 rpm)
I just set to max speed and leave it there. If I could make it go faster I would.
Occasionally when doing aluminium I'll drop it to 15000 rpm, give or take...its not that critical.
When I'm doing steel or stainless I use my high torque spindle. Its based on a kick arse AC servo. I've got great
control over it but again I don't need it most of the time, within 10-20% is good enough.
My recommendation is don't get to hung up on spindle speed unless you have to for some reason. You may find
as you spend more time making chips that other matters become more important. In my case its coolant
for steel and stainless, much more important than spindle speed.
Craig
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Is there a particular reason you need really accurate speed? In most cases you just set the speed, often as fast as it will go, and leave it there. Who really
cares what speed it is?
Craig
That is a very odd statement to make i think - speed and feed are critical in most cases. If you have a tool that needs 35,000rpm and you only have 24,000 then its going too slow and allowances must be made or it will break - if you don't know or care what speed it is doing, how do you compensate. On a 20mm tool you can get away with slightly wrong chip load but at this speed it will be small tool and even a little runout can be enough to break it. ;)
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Hi,
my spindle can do 24000 max, I have to set feeds to match. If my speed was out by 10% then my chip load would be out by 10% as well...so what, I'm never that close to the absolute limit.
With the small tools I often use I would like to go faster but I can't and I'm not spending the bucks to do it either. The job will complete somewhat more slowly at 24000 but it will complete
and I'm happy.
Likewise with my high torque spindle (max 3500 rpm, 6Nm cont) if my feeds and speeds are within 10-20% of theoretical best that usually enough.
Back in the old days before CNC that old Bridgeport had a number of ratios, you selected the speed closest to what you required and got to work. Are you trying to tell me that all those jobs I did with manual mills and
lathes were compromised because I did not have the exact speed ratio available? Of course not, provided the surface speed is within 20% of the recommended for that material you can always find a feed that worked well.
I have found that using pressure coolant to clear the cut zone of chips to be a bigger determinant of success than having the exact speed and feed.
Craig
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I heard people saying this that is why I looked for one that would work and also changed all settings accordingly in the BIOS.
Also stepper and everything else works just fine.
I wonder how the Auto-Calibrate should work since there is no feedback of the actual RPM or anything and also no feedback line from the VFD
The easiest thing to do is use one of the Huanyang plugins, and you'll get perfect speed control.
http://royaumedeole.fr/informatique/plugin-mach3-pour-vfdhuanyang/mach3-plugin-for-huanyang-vfd/
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Back in the old days before CNC that old Bridgeport had a number of ratios, you selected the speed closest to what you required and got to work. Are you trying to tell me that all those jobs I did with manual mills and
lathes were compromised because I did not have the exact speed ratio available? Of course not, provided the surface speed is within 20% of the recommended for that material you can always find a feed that worked well.
Craig
Back in the day, the BP only went to 4200rpm max and the brain controlling the handles was very adept at altering rates depending on how the tool sounded and th colour of the chips, BUT it was never running a tiny cutter at 24,000rpm - there is no sound apart from the 'ping' when it snaps ;) I'm not having a dig or anything, far from it but I would never state that speeds do not matter ;)
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Back in the old days before CNC that old Bridgeport had a number of ratios, you selected the speed closest to what you required and got to work. Are you trying to tell me that all those jobs I did with manual mills and
lathes were compromised because I did not have the exact speed ratio available? Of course not, provided the surface speed is within 20% of the recommended for that material you can always find a feed that worked well.
Craig
Back in the day, the BP only went to 4200rpm max and the brain controlling the handles was very adept at altering rates depending on how the tool sounded and th colour of the chips, BUT it was never running a tiny cutter at 24,000rpm - there is no sound apart from the 'ping' when it snaps ;) I'm not having a dig or anything, far from it but I would never state that speeds do not matter ;)
sorry guys thats an never ending Basic discusion, and i am realy sorry to say that, what has nothing to do with the Basic thread.
sorry again Thomas.
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sorry guys thats an never ending Basic discusion, and i am realy sorry to say that, what has nothing to do with the Basic thread.
sorry again Thomas.
My fault, apologies ;)
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hej everyone,
just wanted to let you know that the tip of @ger21 solved the issue.
Just bought a cheap RS485 USB interface und nov contriving the Spindle with RS485 and the huanyang vfd plugin.
Works like a charm.
Thanks
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hapy to hear, that you get it solved :D