Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: bradjacob on February 11, 2018, 09:30:55 PM
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Hi everyone -
I recently bought a used Syil X3 milling machine. I bought and installed Mach3 on my WinXP computer. All went smooth. Now, I know nothing about CNC and am learning, so I'm going through my frustration period now >:(
I hope this is the right place to post this - and I did do some research using the Search function, but couldn't get any answers to my specific problem/machine.
So here goes - I have 2 issues I'm facing:
1. I can jog the table and head, but they move REALLY slow, and using the shift-key, doesn't make it go faster.
2. My spindle will not start. I can turn it on by pressing the button on the machine itself, but now using Mach3.
I guess I'll stop there and see if there are any suggestions on where to start.
Help!! ;D ;D
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This is where I started, and where I suggest you start as well.
http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/
If THIS leaves any questions unanswered, there are plenty of folks here to help.
First things first :)
Welcome !
Russ
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This is where I started, and where I suggest you start as well.
http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/
If THIS leaves any questions unanswered, there are plenty of folks here to help.
First things first :)
Welcome !
Russ
Thanks Russ - this is what I needed - a place to start with! I'll read up and hopefully I'll get it all figured out ;)
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Hi,
when you first start Mach its common for the jog speed to be very low, sort of saftey thing.
Try some MDI moves:
G0 X5 <enter>
X0 <enter>
X5 <enter>
x0 <enter>
This should move the X axis back and forth 5 units at the max speed you've tuned the motors to.
Is the spindle under Machs control? Its quite common for a spindle not to be, you just lean over turn the switch on then
start your Gcode running. Its nice to have Mach turn your spindle on and off and control the speed but often
its not really required, you can do heaps just by turning on and off by hand.
Craig
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Hi,
when you first start Mach its common for the jog speed to be very low, sort of saftey thing.
Try some MDI moves:
G0 X5 <enter>
X0 <enter>
X5 <enter>
x0 <enter>
This should move the X axis back and forth 5 units at the max speed you've tuned the motors to.
Is the spindle under Machs control? Its quite common for a spindle not to be, you just lean over turn the switch on then
start your Gcode running. Its nice to have Mach turn your spindle on and off and control the speed but often
its not really required, you can do heaps just by turning on and off by hand.
Craig
Interesting Craig. I didn't even know that people do that. Again, this is all new to me. Do you know how I would know (how to tell), or better yet, how to (have) Mach control it?
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Hi,
until you can get Mach to control your axes, you can jog around and issue MDI commands who cares about the spindle?
Do the first things first. Learn what you need to do to jog. Learn what you need to do to MDI commands.
Craig
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Hi,
there are dozens of different strategies for Mach to control a spindle. It depends on what sort of spindle you have and what sort of control you need.
The simplest control is to have Mach just turn in on or off, it could be as simple as a relay or a contactor for a bigger spindle or a Solid State Relay.
You could have the spindle go forward and reverse, if you need it, although I don't know anyone who has lefthanded cutters or drills, so it seems a bit pointless
to me unless your doing rigid tapping, and the fact that your asking tells me your not even close to the realm of rigid tapping!
Machs native speed control strategy is PWM. One output pin is turned on and off rapidly to emulate an analogue voltage which in turn controls a
DC power supply/amplifier for DC spindles or the analogue voltage input of a VFD for an AC spindle.
Another way is Step/Direction control not dissimilar to an axis motor. They are superbly accurate and often very powerful for rigid tapping an worth a FORTUNE!
To be honest a lot of people go overboard trying to control a spindle spending a lot of time and money on it when often they don't really need it, unless they
want to bragg (or toss off) about it. Start simple and work your way up to what you need, as opposed to what you want, assuming you not a bragger!
Craig
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Hi,
there are dozens of different strategies for Mach to control a spindle. It depends on what sort of spindle you have and what sort of control you need.
The simplest control is to have Mach just turn in on or off, it could be as simple as a relay or a contactor for a bigger spindle or a Solid State Relay.
You could have the spindle go forward and reverse, if you need it, although I don't know anyone who has lefthanded cutters or drills, so it seems a bit pointless
to me unless your doing rigid tapping, and the fact that your asking tells me your not even close to the realm of rigid tapping!
Machs native speed control strategy is PWM. One output pin is turned on and off rapidly to emulate an analogue voltage which in turn controls a
DC power supply/amplifier for DC spindles or the analogue voltage input of a VFD for an AC spindle.
Another way is Step/Direction control not dissimilar to an axis motor. They are superbly accurate and often very powerful for rigid tapping an worth a FORTUNE!
To be honest a lot of people go overboard trying to control a spindle spending a lot of time and money on it when often they don't really need it, unless they
want to bragg (or toss off) about it. Start simple and work your way up to what you need, as opposed to what you want, assuming you not a bragger!
Craig
You're right Carig. I've been reading a lot and have seen that these machines (X3) don't usually come with spindle control and that's it's a process to upgrade the (controller?) or something else to get it to work. And Yep, I think I am overthinking it. Just tun on the spindle and run my GCode.
Now, I can jog all around, only it moves really slow. The prior (demo) install of Mach, had a profile that jogged fast - so I know the motors can go at (what I considered) fast. With my fresh install and license, they're running at like 1/3 speed. Could you guide me to now to fix that - what options/menu should I begin with?
(and THANK YOU) for taking the time to respond and help me out here, I REALLY do appreciate it buddy!
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Hi,
when Mach starts it is initialised with a slow feedrate. You can manually change that by issuing a F********* MDI command or include a suitable F********* in the initialization
string on the Config/General Config page.
Craig
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Mach3 jog Speed is based on max Speed of Motor Tuning, not on any F command,
if you want to increase your jog Speed
hit tab key in 1024 Screen set
then hit + and - button in slow jog rate aeria.
example here:
http://www.jcopro.net/2012/03/07/change-your-cnc-router-jog-speed-with-mach3/
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Hi,
as the pic shows the feedrate is only 6 units/min when you first fire Mach up.
I used the F300 command in my initialisation string for several years to good effect before migrating to Mach4.
Craig
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Hi,
as the pic shows the feedrate is only 6 units/min when you first fire Mach up.
I used the F300 command in my initialisation string for several years to good effect before migrating to Mach4.
Craig
Craig - I think I got the motors tuned. But regarding your post on the spindle. I'm thinking more about and wondering if the controller should be upgraded to one that will control the speed and actually run it? So if I change tools, the rpms will be right for the cutter.
What controllers should I look at that can offer faster operation and performance? (and, one that works on an X3 mill)
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Hi,
what sort of spindle do you have?
Unless there a real need save your money.
Craig
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Hi,
from what I've found you have a 1kW spindle, probably an AC induction motor.
If you wish to control its speed you'll need a 1kW (min) VFD, don't buy a cheap crap one, they don't last.
From what I read its currently capable of 1750 rpm. With a VFD you might push that out to 3000 rpm
but if you don't want to destroy it not much more. Admittedly its probably not inverter rated but you could risk
it...the insulation could possibly fail but I've had reasonable success with standard motors on VFDs.
Such a spindle might give you reasonable torque, enough for smallish tools in steel. If you want to do engraving
or machine aluminum then you want something way WAY faster, try 24000 rpm. There are such spindles,
there are lots of Chinese ones and most of them work pretty well. They are high speed low torque, good for
engraving and aluminum but crap in steel. Stick with the spindle you've got for steel.
Either way you'll need a VFD. Hitachi do a good line of devices, quality at a fair price. Delta likewise do good value/ quality
units. Don't go cheaper...there are lots and lots of them and they go bang all the time!
Craig
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Hi,
I've just re-read my post and its in error.
Your spindle is almost certainly a single phase induction motor and not amenable to speed control.
Three phase induction motors with a variable frequency drive are very controllable however. Also three phase motors tend to be much smaller than single phase
motors of the same power. It is highly probable therefore that you could remove your single phase motor and replace it with an even more powerful unit and still
fit in the same hole.
There are a few issues that you should be aware of:
1) Line frequency (normal) induction motors work with VFDs but the high frequency switching causes severe stress of the insulation. Motors made for VFDs are called
'inverter ready' and have much improved insulation. A good quality American/British/European/Japanese motor will survive, I've had pretty good luck with them,
but Chinese and Indian made ones often aren't up to it.
2) With a VFD its possible to spin an induction motor much faster than its rated speed. You risk having the rotor explode because of centrifugal force. A rotor in a 1450rpm
(50 Hz) or 1750rpm (60Hz) motor is identical to a rotor in a 2900rpm (50Hz) or 3500rpm (60Hz) motor. It possible to take such a motor up to about 4000 to 4500rpm
without damage. I've done just that. Don't want to push my luck any further though!
3) Cooling. Almost all induction motors are fan cooled. If you slow it down the current remains the same and it still gets just as hot but the fan is now way too slow to cool
the motor and it will overheat. If you try to run an induction motor at less than half its rated speed its probable it will happen. You could mount an additional fan.
If you take some commonsense precautions a line frequency three phase motor and VFD can be a pretty cheap and reliable spindle motor.
The high speed spindles all over the internet are also pretty damn good. They have angular contact bearings built in and can handle cutting forces.
Either of these alternatives would work but they aren't free!
Craig