Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: pstenabaugh on February 06, 2018, 09:36:08 PM

Title: Nmotion Controller
Post by: pstenabaugh on February 06, 2018, 09:36:08 PM
I have purchased one of the new technology 'N-motion' cnc controllers.  I purchased this partly because it appears to have been endorsed by the Mach3 / Artsoft people. I also want this as I am using closed loop stepper motors with the hybrid servo drivers.  in order to connect up the drivers I need the connections that are available on the Nmotion controller.

In the installation manual it says that it is necessary to download and install the 'Nmotion.zip' file which contains the file 'usbmove.dll' a customized .dll file that has to be loaded in to the Mach folder.

The problem is - NO ONE tells you where to get this file.  I did some searching and the best I found was a Chinese version that was on a non-translatable website.

I am VERY upset that the Artsoft people would endorse such a product when it isnt properly supported.  Even the user manual is difficult to find but I finally did get a copy of that, but no .dll file

Can anyone on the forum help me out here and give me link as to where I might get this file?
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 07, 2018, 01:41:43 AM
Hi,

Quote
I purchased this partly because it appears to have been endorsed by the Mach3 / Artsoft people

I don't recall seeing anything about this board and certainly not from Artsoft/NFS. Where did you get that info from?

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on February 07, 2018, 04:00:24 AM
I am not aware of any endorsement for this product by Artsoft - sounds like a bit of deception by the vendor in the sales description of the product.

Ideally you should contact the vendor or manufacturer of the product you have purchased for after-sales support but as others have found that support is sadly lacking in the cheap far-eastern products.
However, I have attached a copy of the usbmove.dll which I hope will enable you to proceed.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: bryannab on February 07, 2018, 03:22:58 PM
I am sorry you have had a hard time with that motion controller, but it is not endorsed or supported by Newfangled Solutions.

 
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: ger21 on February 07, 2018, 09:31:25 PM
Try this plugin.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 08, 2018, 01:41:50 AM
Hi pstenabaugh,
where abouts on the globe do you hail from?

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: pstenabaugh on February 08, 2018, 07:11:41 PM
Thanks to everyone who has posted on this issue.  I cant find my invoice for this item, however I recall when I purchased it last year, the seller was advertising the Artsoft logo, so I assumed that those folks had checked it out, or tested it and were supporting the product, but perhaps not.  At any rate, one place where it is currently available is this place... https://www.thanksbuyer.com/upgraded-nmotion-mach3-6-axis-usb-cnc-motion-card-interface-adapter-for-engraving-machine-servo-step-motor-45150 .... this guy also retails on ebay as well.

Doing an ebay search for 'nmotion mach3 cnc controller' yields several places in China for this unit.  Be careful though as prices vary quite a bit. This controller will handle up to 6 axis machines, which is what I purchased for about $170 US last year.  I see it now for $153 US plus shipping.

I purchased this as I am installing some closed loop stepper motors (with built in encoders) and the matching hybrid servo/stepper drivers.  I initially started out with an 'NVUM' controller but couldnt get it to work properly as it kept killing my USB port, so I would have to reboot to get it going again.  10 minutes later it would die.  I checked some blogs and found others that were having the same problem so I looked for something else and found this nMotion controller.  I contacted them initially and they confirmed this controller would work properly with the hybrid motors so I bought one.

If this works it will be great as there is a full - error checking closed loop - between the motor and the driver, via the encoders, so supposedly there are not more missed steps.  There are several suppliers for these motors in China, but if anyone is interested, then email me and I will give you my contacts.  These motor/driver combos are approximately $120US per kit depending on the motor size etc.  Make sure you order a matched set.

I am sequestered in Calgary, Alberta if anyone is from this area. Please feel free to PM me.

If/when I get this beast operational I will post back my results.

Thanks all.

Pete




Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 08, 2018, 08:00:12 PM
Hi,
funny, I've been running open loop steppers for four years and haven't missed a step since I tuned them
in except when I've been trying to do something really dumb. Must be a Northern hemisphere quirk....this
missing of steps.

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: garyhlucas on February 09, 2018, 01:24:48 PM
Same here, no missing steps ever except for when I do stupid. However I just machined a stainless part that took 2 hours and the center hole is perfectly round and NOT concentric with the round housing all cut at the same time! However I suspect a loose coupling between a motor and ball screw as the culprit. Missed steps would have been way more random.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: garyhlucas on February 09, 2018, 01:27:04 PM
An apropo saying “ Never attribute to conspiracy ( or step error) what can be explained by stupidity”
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: ger21 on February 09, 2018, 01:56:31 PM
Missed steps happen when your machine is perfectly capable of running at 100ipm, and you insist on trying to run it at 150ipm.

With closed loop steppers, rather than missed steps, the drive will fault and stop.

They are still steppers, and don't have any reserve power when you try to push them to fast.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 09, 2018, 02:49:59 PM
Hi Gerry,
that's my experience also that the only time steppers lose steps is when I'm pushing beyond their limits and closed loop steppers are similarly beyond their
limits. While they may try to 'catch up' by virtue of the closed loop they will fail to do so because of overload.

I'm of the opinion that OP may have been better placed if he'd spent a little less on the closed loop steppers by the simple expedient of getting ordinary open loop
steppers and paid a little more to get 'a known good' external controller.

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 10, 2018, 03:48:30 AM
Hi Gerry,
you have to admit that the manufacturers of hybrid closed loop stepper products 'troll' their bait very very effectively

Had they been more readily available a the time I was designing my machine and accumulating components for it I may have been one of the
customers they caught.

It has taken some considerable time that I can separate the myth from the reality. I've found also that those whom are inclined to believe the hype
about closed loop steppers are very resistant to logic that says that their belief is fallacious.

Whatever may be said about them one has to admire the persuasive message of the people selling and marketing them.

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: ger21 on February 10, 2018, 06:55:03 AM
It's amazing that so many people think lost steps are a fact of life when using steppers.
Often it's the same people that buy the cheapest components you can buy.
Or those that fall for the "bigger is better" 1600oz Ebay packages, that are easily outperformed by 400oz steppers in a CNC application.

The new fad everone is going to is the Clearpath servos. Clearpaths are great if you are replacing steppers,as they are drop in replacements. But I see people buying them for new machines. AC servos are in many cases cheaper, and can offer 3x the performance.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 10, 2018, 07:15:14 AM
Hi Gerry,

Quote
The new fad everone is going to is the Clearpath servos. Clearpaths are great if you are replacing steppers,as they are drop in replacements. But I see people buying them for new machines. AC servos are in many cases cheaper, and can offer 3x the performance

Yes I've encountered some people who are of the opinion that they are the way to go. They attempt to replace their existing 400oz.in stepper with a Clearpath servo of
97 oz.in. The same people point out that the overload torque is much higher, say 300 oz.in without realizing that that overload can be sustained for a few seconds at best
before the drive faults out. I had another chap whom incorrectly assumed that as the speed reduced the torque from the Clearpath servo increased rather like the
stepper he was replacing. He was rather crestfallen when I explained, with the aid of the speed/torque diagram from the manufacturer that it is not the case.

Servos maintain their torque at high speeds and for their size outperform a stepper at high speed. The same stepper is likely to have a great deal more torque
at slow speed than a servo.

If you select a servo that has the same lowspeed torque as a stepper it will be much larger and way way WAY more expensive.

I will admit that it has taken a while for these realities to filter down and displace the myths. It staggering how effective those myths are as a marketing
tool though.

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: ger21 on February 10, 2018, 07:49:24 AM
The big issue with most of the Clearpaths, is that they have a max rpm in the ±1000rpm range, where an AC servo will be 3000-5000 rpm. Simple belt reduction gives you 3-5x more power. And AC servos have a flat torque curve, where the Clearpaths are very similar to steppers.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on February 10, 2018, 09:57:08 PM
Hi Gerry,
those Clearpaths are so damned expensive.

Until fairly recently I'd never had a chance to experiment with a 'modern' AC servo. I bought a second hand 1.8kW Allen Bradley and drive for a spindle.
Setting it up and programming the EPROM requires software on your PC. I have been absolutely amazed at the breadth and depth of data in the servo
database, the many different modes of control, the vast array of diagnostic tools for tuning and the list goes on.

I have joked that the only thing this servo can't do is 'make me a cup of coffee', as I am still working through all the setup options its not beyond the realms
of possibility that I will find the coffee making instruction! All in all I am extremely impressed by AC servo technology.

I bought 5 phase Vexta steppers with 10:1 low lash (<2 arc min) planetaries and high voltage Vexta drives for my machine some years ago. Despite being second
hand I paid a very hefty premium for them. They have been great and once I got them tuned in they have never missed a step since, unless I am doing
something really dumb.

Had I known at that time just how capable AC servos are I would have bought those instead and given the somewhat esoteric choice of steppers probably
for similar money. I note that there are some very cost effective AC servo units, albeit low power, from some Chinese manufacturers. I suspect they will do well
in the market, no doubt there will be questions over quality but the prices are such that we can afford them which is not the case with American/European/Japanese
brands.

Craig
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: pstenabaugh on March 09, 2018, 01:48:51 AM
Hey guys with regards to this nMotion controller, I have finally found my original emails from when I made the purchase last Oct 2017.  I purchased this unit from www.amanmachinery.com.  On their Alibaba page... https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/HOT-Sale-MACH3-USB-interface-board_60617319093.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.94.4.609478f2c6Z4cb check out their use of the Artsoft Logo etc.  This is why I had originally suspected that the device was endorsed by Artsoft.  If not then I stand corrected, but I dont know if there is anything that Artsoft can do about it.  Perhaps by registering a dispute with Alibaba, it might stir things up a bit.

At any rate even after this length of time, they still respond to my messages.  If anyone on the forum needs a copy of the manual for this please message me and I will gladly send them a copy.

The good news is that this device has been reduced a bit in price.  I purchased the 6 axis version last year at $172 US and I think it's now down to about $120.

This device seems to be ok, except that you need the 'usbmove.dll' file, and I am currently waiting for an updated copy from them, in the chance it is newer than what I have.  I do have a copy of that file courtesy of the guys on this forum but I havent installed it yet.  You will need a 24 volt power supply for this device, so I am now waiting on delivery of one from China, hence the hold up - aside from procrastination.

If anyone is looking for closed loop stepper kits - with the drivers, I also have some links to reputable Chinese companies.  These complete kits are appox $90 US - $130 US depending on the motor size.  I have 3 motors now in the process of being hooked up.  I'll try to remember to post back with my results.
Title: Re: Nmotion Controller
Post by: joeaverage on March 09, 2018, 02:04:23 AM
Hi,

Quote
The good news is that this device has been reduced a bit in price.  I purchased the 6 axis version last year at $172 US and I think it's now down to about $120.

Don't know about you but even a $10 board that doesn't work is still expensive. I bought an ESS, paid $180 + shipping but it worked right from the start. When I had problems
the Warp9 Tech guy was right onto it and had me running in a couple of days. Warp9 have released six new Mach4 plugin builds in the eighteen months since.  Money
well spent!

Craig