Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Woodie79 on February 04, 2018, 10:12:45 PM

Title: Mach 3 turn
Post by: Woodie79 on February 04, 2018, 10:12:45 PM
Hi
I am attempting to get two steppers to function with Mach 3 Turn.

I am using a K179 stepper driver which I already use to drive x and y with another software package - cutting clock wheels on a Seig mill. I know that the steppers are working because I have tested it with this other system.

At the moment the program is only driving one stepper and obviously I need to reconfigure but am not sure how to go about that.  I have port 1 enabled and the output shows x and y enable. Obviously I am missing something appreciate some help.

Woodie
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: joeaverage on February 04, 2018, 10:19:20 PM
Hi,
aren't the axes on a lathe X and Z?

Craig
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on February 05, 2018, 03:34:07 AM
aren't the axes on a lathe X and Z?

Yup.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: Woodie79 on February 27, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
Thanks for the replies. My delayed reply is because your responses went to trash for some reason. Only just found them.

The CNC system I am using is for cutting clock wheels on my mill which is configured x and y. I was halfway through the reconfiguration process when my old Dell decided it was all too much and refused to reboot so I remain at square one until I get that sorted.

Woodie
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on February 28, 2018, 01:18:31 AM
Huh?????
I don't think Mach3TURN can handle the Y axis. Very few lathe packages can.
You need Mach3Mill. It comes in the same package.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: Woodie79 on February 28, 2018, 02:55:25 AM
Thanks Roger.

 My son tells me he has a spare tower with a printer port so I will see if I can get Win 7 for that when I get it.

While I am waiting for that I have been fiddling with TC5520H controller. The package included a power supply, two drivers and a couple of stepper motors. It does come come with a manual but nowhere near the same level of support that is available for Mach 3. So it is suck and see what happens.

Woodie
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on February 28, 2018, 03:46:50 AM
Fair enough.

A small suggestion though: buy an external pulse engine such as the Ethernet Smooth Stepper. This will do the following for you:
Use any x86 PC with any version of Windows, 32 bit or 64 bit.
Faster pulsing possible than from a PC, which can be good for detailed wood carving
More stable operation
My own biased opinion (biased, but based on experience) is that you should NOT buy one which uses the USB instead of the ethernet. UCCNC disagree and claim theirs is fine. OK, maybe, but USB is NOT meant for controlling industrial power gear, while the ethernet is rated for it. My 2c.

Cheers
Roger

Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: joeaverage on February 28, 2018, 05:10:01 AM
Hi,
I go with Roger, I'm less concerned about the difference between USB and Ethernet but having an external controller with a purpose built pulse engine
is a big big BIG step forward compared to a parallel port. I personally have an Ethernet SmoothStepper and the smoothness of the motion compared to the
parallel port it replaced surprised and delighted me and effectively allows my stepper to run 25% faster without losing steps or getting hot.

Additionally you can now run just about any PC you like, desktop/laptop/32bit/64bit/WindowsXP/7/8/10  I run a little dual core Atom on a miniITX board with on-chip
graphics, about the least powerful PC you could name and yet it runs Mach3 and more recently Mach4 just fine.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: joeaverage on February 28, 2018, 05:39:49 AM
Hi,
need to add that if you are thinking or even investigating buying an external motion controller as Roger and I recommend DON"T buy a rubbishy one...there are
plenty of junky ones and Chinese ripoffs out there....you absolutely do not want one....don't be seduced by the cheap prices.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on February 28, 2018, 06:01:51 AM
And the Chinese ones do NOT implement all the g-code functions.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: Woodie79 on March 01, 2018, 02:20:51 AM
Hi Roger/Craig

Thanks for taking the time.

I purchased the TC5520 on a recommendation of one of of the members of this forum. I am only just now connecting it up. The manual is upfront about some of its limitations and it remains to be seen how much use I will get out of it.

One of the difficulties I face as a CNC beginner is knowing the questions to ask. The an old adage about the dangers of keeping your mouth shut and having people think you are stupid rather than opening it and removing all doubt being uppermost in my mind.

There is a lot of information about the use of Mach 3 software but not a lot on the specifics of the hardware you need to build to use it. This is why I was trying to see if the CNC system I installed on my mill to cut clock wheels will work on my metal lathe. As I said it was not helped by a computer failure. I was thinking of building a later version of my mill CNC system which uses a Stepper Bee+ controller but this version uses a USB connection to a laptop that makes it more difficult to use Mach 3 unless I look for the more sophisticated solution you talked about.

I think I need to get a better understanding of the conventional use of Mach 3 before I think about the Ethernet version.

My impression of the retailers of units like the TC5520 is that they are more interested in marketing their product than supporting it as Mach 3 does. So if you can point me in the direction of any support for this system I would appreciate it.

Incidentally, my primary interest is in clock making which is something I now teach FOC to members of my crafters club. Let me know if you are interested and I will send you a link to my web page.

regards
Woodie

Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on March 01, 2018, 02:31:54 AM
Haven't made any clocks. Could be interesting.

Yeah, those vendors are usually no use for support.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: joeaverage on March 01, 2018, 03:25:59 AM
Hi,
the primary difference between GRBL, Stepper Bee or your TC5520 and controllers of that ilke and Mach, or indeed any of the main stream CNC control products, is Gcode.
There is no agreement as to what constitutes standard Gcode but most recognize Fanuc as the de-facto standard and just about all Gcode interpreters will implement
it...but not so the smaller controllers like GRBL etc.

There is a vast industry in and around CAD and CAM. The generation of Gcode for industrial purposes is as old as CNC itself. If you wish to participate in
and use the software base that represents to machine parts then get Mach3 or Mach4 or UCCNC or LinuxCNC or....or..... and the list goes on.

Hardware can be as cheap as a few hundred dollars to several millions of dollars....where abouts on that spread are you?

Mach3 is and was natively a parallel port system. Increasingly parallel port capable machines are dying and are being replaced by a PC and external motion controller.
The only advantage of the humble parallel port (to go with its long list of limitations) is that is free.

If your serious about using industrial grade Gcode and want to use Mach3 (or Mach4) do yourself a favour and get an external controller, and not some cheap junk either,
this forum is littered with stories of guys who couldn't resist a bargain and got ripped with a piece of s*********t. A reputable external controller is around $200 and Mach is
another $200 (just ball park figures). If that suits your budget all well and good. If it seems a bit steep then I would advise look elsewhere than Mach, its inexpensive
but not free!

Craig
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on March 01, 2018, 04:08:27 AM
There is no agreement as to what constitutes standard Gcode but most recognize Fanuc as the de-facto standard
That is not entirely correct.
Mach and other modern controllers implement the NIST version of g-code. That means programs are portable across any NIST-compliant controller. It is an 'open' standard, and like the PC vs others, open standards win in the long run.

Fanuc is only partly NIST-compliant, with the extra disadvantage that code is not portable between different Fanuc controllers. They have changed their own 'home base'. They have chosen to maintain some degree of backward compatibility within their family - going back to the days when controllers were huge boards of chips with not a uP to be seen.

Neither is code portable from any Fanuc to other old industry machines, some of which are really orphans today. They have the same history. To be sure, some of these machines still sell - to an installed base. But some more adventurous owners are starting to rip out the old stuff and switch to NIST controllers. The cast iron is still fine, but the electronics is past its use-by date.

The 'little' controllers mentioned, like GRBL etc, aspire to supporting NIST, but have not got there yet. You have to decide what you want to do with your CNC before deciding whether one of those will suit you. You also have to get fairly familiar with g-code first - there's a Catch-22 in there.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: Woodie79 on March 01, 2018, 07:18:51 AM
Again thanks for the quick response and information which I will now try to absorb.

I don't have a problem spending a few hundred dollars to get a system, but agree that I need to continue to familiarise myself with G code and also work out what I am actually going to do with it. One of the advantages of CNC controlled metal lathes is that they allow you to create decorative profiles that are probably not possible by hand.

Clock making is fascinating because it has no end point. Unlike many who people, particularly those with engineering backgrounds, I have never had an interest in copying designs of yesteryear. I have cobbled together a simple design (it is what I teach) using an electromagnetic coil and even after ten or more years of fiddling have really only scratched the surface. In terms of expertise, on a scale starting at engineers down to back yard mechanics I fit most neatly into the latter category. And it never gets boring.

Woodie
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: rcaffin on March 01, 2018, 03:41:55 PM
I have never regretted upgrading my system to the best I can manage. One of the advantages has been reliability: I can routinely make things I could not make by hand. Another less obvious benefit has been the lack of extreme frustration when things don't work. Older versions (older than .062) and USB devices did not give me that, and I was never too sure where the problem lay.

My 2c: it's meant to be fun, so I set it up so it IS fun.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: Mach 3 turn
Post by: Woodie79 on March 01, 2018, 05:24:26 PM
I agree with your 2c: that is the key.

I call my hobby my reason to get out of bed in the mornings.

It was never my intention to get into metal work. It was just that I had made everything that interested me on my wood lathe and fell into clock making. Metal turning was a natural progression from that.

Nor was it my intention to try tackle CNC, I dropped out of school in 1951 and "science" was never my thing at the best of times. So I will continue to tackle it as I would if I had to eat an elephant - one mouthful at a time.

Woodie