Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: Peter Knell on November 22, 2017, 04:04:53 AM
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This post is for informing others about the XHC USB Mach4 USB motion control board.
I bought a 1325 machine from China (Blue Elephant CNC - really pleased with it!).
I didnt want Mach3 as its old and who wants old software with a brand new machine?
They offered the XHC Mach4 board as there only option for supply with Mach4.
Yes it was a risk and i knew this (being a new board and also Mach4 being new too).
The XHC board is a nice layout with 24vdc ins and outs etc. It is advertised to be working with Mach4.
The catch is the board and its supplied plugins will ONLY run and work with the wxMach.exe Mach4 program and NOT the Mach4GUI.exe.
Under the Mach4GUI.exe Mach4 wont connect to the card and this means all your assigned inputs are on including e-stop. Nothing works.
As you all probably know this means you cant use this board and also edit your Mach4 screens to make Auto Tool Zero and Go to Zero etc work (can only edit screens under Mach4GUI.exe).
I have spoken to XHC and they keep saying the same thing. (Copy paste shortcut to wxmach.exe to desktop). This obviously doesnt fix the problem.
For reference this is the MK3-M4 Version: 5.10 usb board from XHC.
Apparently Artsoft have offered to give support for this range of USB card provided XHC provide some samples for the team to go over and test but unfortunately it doesnt look like XHC are willing to do this.
Anyway this is just some info for others who might have bought one or considering buying.
Admittedly the card actually works well for motion and running programs it just means you cant have a heap of functions that Mach4 offers such as the Auto Tool Zero by button.
If anyone has any info on things i could try or mod to get this working with Mach4GUI.exe it would be awesome.
I have used a heap of chinese parts in the past and have never been disappointed so i thought id give this card a go. I suppose the good times had to come to an end eventaully haha.
If i cant find an updated plugin or hack to get this working ill have to bin it and go for the PMDX usb maybe? Any recommendations for your fav boards?
Anyway hope this helps someone.
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for the heads-up on the XHC USB.
There are probably for and against debates about any motion controller - I use the ESS.
Tweakie.
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My pleasure.
I just think its unfair on the customer when they say it works with Mach 4 when most of the features are unusable. It will most likely be a very nice board once it has been developed more but this looks like it will come at the early customers expense.
Im wondering which board i will move to. The only thing with the ESS is i only have the one Ethernet port on my computer so unless i use a network switch for internet ill have to swap the cable over to the computer every time i want to go on the internet. My computer has wireless but the signal is very poor in the workshop.
Im really not sure which board i should change to now.
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Hi,
Roger has made the suggestion that a lot of the Chinese suppliers are just selling houses, they may make the boards even but they don't design them.
As a consequence they can't/won't answer questions about their products and can't/won't update either. I don't know whether that is the case for
XHC but it makes sense. Surely a company would want to develop their product to suit potential customers demands...unless they can't for whatever
reason.
I would recomend an Ethernet connected motion controller because of the reduced latency compared to USB connected. You will probably need another
Ethernet card.smurph made a reccomendation as to the IC series that resulted in best throughput for CNC purposes.It was an Intel IC. I will do some digging
around to find the thread.
Craig
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Im not 100 on this but i think XHC do make and develop the board. They do have a large range and also i have noticed they are incrementally updating there versions etc and providing downloads on there site here which is a start! Some manufacturers dont even provide download links.
http://www.cdxhctech.com/.
I have been wondering wether i should just go with an Ethernet setup and maybe put in another wireless access point in my workshop so i can use the wireless for internet.
Thanks for your recommendation. All information helps :)
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Hi,
yes Ethernet is preferred. Why not put an extra card in your PC, cheap as chips?
Warp9, the makers of the ESS, for instance recommend that all wiresless connections be disabled when a PC is used with the ESS.
Craig
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Im using an All in One type touch screen computer so i cannot add another card. The reason i did this is the touch screens are so much better when they are designed for the computer they are on.
Of course this does mean i cant upgrade cards etc. Ive been reading about the Pokeys57cnc board which looks really good. It can even be used through your router or network switch which could be an option.
Thanks for your input. Lots of learning haha.
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Hi,
yes the 57CNC has a great rep and very flexible. Note that the 57E and 57U which share the same core have a few limitations
when used as a CNC controller but are expanded to full capacity with the 57CNC.
Most experienced CNCers on the forum DO NOT recommend any controller be run off an router, not that it won't work, but
cannot be relied on.
Craig
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Yeah i can understand not running through a router.
I think im keen for the Pokeys at this stage but im in no hurry so will keep researching.
Thank you
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Hi,
New driver plugin here (XHC-MACH4 Card Driver-V5.10.2) https://yadi.sk/d/DrqFYvjV3RsNz7
v5.10.1 2017.8.23
fixed the probe bug.
optimize the usb commnunication.
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Is that you XHC? Brand new account first post.
Does the fix work with Mach4GUI.exe? Most likely not? Which means its basically useless and shouldnt be advertised as a fully functioning Mach4 card.
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No. I just bought this. Driver from CD.
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cnc-kursk
Does the driver work with Mach4GUI.exe?
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Does the fix work with Mach4GUI.exe?
It work from my Mach4GUI.exe
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cnc-kursk
Does the driver work with Mach4GUI.exe?
(https://preview.ibb.co/eGwA8b/image.png)
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Thanks i will test this.
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Thanks i will test this.
May be this person can help us?
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=41092
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You can contact him if you would like. I am going to test this driver myself. Thanks
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cnc-kursk
Does the driver work with Mach4GUI.exe?
(https://preview.ibb.co/eGwA8b/image.png)
Question you show a hobby licence but an industrial screen set, so what are you running hobby or industrial , or do you run the industrial screen on a hobby install
Just curious
Stuart
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Stuart
Im not 100% sure but im pretty sure this user is XHC trying to smooth over there complete F#!K up of there drivers not being running with Mach4GUI. This user is a brand new user with no other posts other than these.
When i get time i am going to test this new driver and see if it works with Mach4GUI like it should. The driver this guy has posted isnt even listed for download on the XHC website. I could be wrong but i think this is all BS.
Nice spotting on the licence by the way
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Hello Peter. Sorry for my English. I am real user from Russia.
Just say "THX" to me. OK?
Yep. This is screenset. I bought license Mach4 two days ago, and make my own screenset, inspired by Industrial, Hobby and Custom screensets. Working on progress...
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OK well thank you for sharing. I will test this soon as the last driver was absolute crap haha
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I am new to the mach4 program and just building a cnc mill, but the MK3-M4 controller I got seems to work fine with the software.
I probably don't understand what the problem is that you're having.
I'm using Mach4Hobby\Mach4GUI.exe/p Mach4 Mill and it connects on usb ok.
What are you saying it can't do?
PS ... I have a problem with output assignments. I set output 3 to react to "spindle on", but output 4 is what gets activated. Whatever I set up on output 4 actually goes to output 5 etc.
Quirky at best. Also there was no usable +5v from the controller, making me use a seperate 5v psu.
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Roaster, lucky man! Can you edit your screens?
Also agree 5v output would be nice. What driver version are you using?
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Same as cnc-kursk stated ... folder on cd named XHC-MACH4 Card Driver-V5.10.2, contains NCUSBPOD.m4pw and NCUSBPOD.sig dated 8/22/2017.
Both files are to be copied to mach4\plugins
Latest driver version shown in release notes.txt is v5.10.1 2017.8.23
Yes I can edit screens
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Hi Roaster,
Please upload your version of the driver or the release notes if possible.
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Am I doing this right?
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Anyone else got one of these boards up and running? I have the 3 axis version MK3-M4.
Are your output terminal assignments normal? Such as you assign a function to output 4 and it activates output 4?
Cuz mine aint.
Output 3 is stuck ON and the assignment for output 3 activates output 4.
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I simply can't get the outputs to function properly. If I turn off 4, then turn on 6 it turns 4 on again, then starts working the correct output+1. Basically if I turn off any output, the next ON command for any different output turns the last one that was turned off on again. It's unusable.
I looked at the macros in Profiles and found the file for M162 and M163 which are supposed to turn outputs on and off, but I'm not sure I understand the P# format correctly. Giving a command of M163 P5 does nothing.
The seller of the xhc board threw in the towel and refunded my money.
So it raises a question of what exactly is being transmitted to the usb motion controller board when Mach4 sends an Output# on or off command. Is there any way to echo the command like Universal G-Code sender does with GRBL?
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Hi,
no I don't think so.
Mach no doubt has its own output format but that output will be processed by the motion controller plugin which will then communicate to the hardware controller,
As each manufacturers controller is unique, as is the plugin, there is no standard communication stream between the PC and hardware controller.
The good news is that you've got your money back. You can now buy something that works. Use the forum to confirm that your preferred device
does in fact work.
At this time there is NO Chinese manufacturer producing credible Mach4 capable boards. If they try to tell you otherwise walk away.
Craig
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I don't recomend this board.
After months of testing, I stumbled upon skipping Z steps.
No support at all.
No refund.
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All I purchased an early 6 axis version of this card last May and did have problems, especially with G31 and ocassional loss of steps. However, Alex and his programmer spent a few hours with me using TeamViewer to access my machine on the job, and the main problem was the bloatware running on my laptop which was screwing up USB comms with the board (no surprises I guess). I now use a dedicated user profile for Mach4 and disable any non-essentials manually, which together with the driver updates late last year solved my problems. I don't know what the issue with the MachGUI and screen editing is. As far as I can tell all of Machs functions work fine, including allowing me to heavily customise all of Mach4s screens.
I do intend buying a 2 more - a 6 axis for an IHI45 conversion, and a 3 axis one for a AL960B conversion.
Let me know what I am missing?
Best regards
Louis
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Hi Louis,
good news! Your the first person who has responded that they can get the board to work at all.
Craig
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Yup i also extend congrats haha.
The fact that the driver for this board in the downloads section on their site still hasnt been updated from many versions ago shows you how much they are willing to help. At least load up the latest driver so others have a fighting chance.
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Let me know what I am missing?
Hello.
Please send your drivers and profile for test purpose.
n0isy2011 ( a t ) gmail (dot) com
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I uploaded the driver on page three. I just got an Ether-Mach-CS motion controller so I'm done with the XHC.
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Hi Louis,
as you can see very few have had any luck with these boards. The question is 'is the favourable price differentinal
sufficent to justify the difficulties and lack of support that they represent?'
Craig
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Craig,
Overall I would say yes - well worth the effort. I know of major problems/lack of support with other boards/controllers, including dedicated controllers (Adtech in particular), so don't regard my experience the XHC controller as overly troublesome. With regards to lack of support, I've actually had more issues with ArtSoft who refuses to acknowledge an issue/undocumented feature with Mach4 (I use metric, and if I go into config to check a value (ie not change anything), when I come out of config the units always revert to imperial even though G21 is active ... so a 10mm jog gives a 254mm travel!! I need to exit and reopen every time opening config - despite claims to the contrary). Not a major inconvenience once you know about it, but I did break a few tools until figuring out the glitch - which must surely affect others. The other issue is with Mill Wizard. Purchased last ~August, but unusable because it will not accept the key supplied. I've given up trying to get a new key or advice on what to do.
With XHC, I actually tried to purchase this controller (the new 6 axis version for Mach4) before it had been properly released and was happy to wait a few weeks for the final debugging - so knew that I was one of the first to purchase. In the event it arrived before my machine, so my first task when the machine arrived was to remove the Mach3 controller supplied and replace it with the XHC Mach4 version. Although a complete novice with CNC, the install and Mach4 config was straight forward. The XHC manual is very easy to follow. The machine worked fine for the first few jobs, but then I started to get the occasional missed step accompanied by a grunt from the steppers. The G31 macro was also not giving reproducible tool lengths. XHC were initially quite dismissive of the controller having a problem, and instead insisted that the problem was my setup - reasonable given the vast array of setups possible and novice users like myself. In the end I recorded the diagnostics screen whilst probing (using the screen record function in PowerPoint) and sent this to XHC. They responded immediately, and we ended up having a couple of Skype and TeamViewer sessions with their software guy which showed problems with both the controller AND my computer (although its a high performance laptop, I was using an appropriate USB cable and had too much other junk running in the background which were causing USB timing issues). XHC provided an updated driver for me to try within hours which together with my tidying up my hardware has solved my issues (almost). My only gripe is that G31 is still not as consistent as my own step on-off-on.. probing macro. It occasionally is 1 or 2 microsteps (0.00625mm or 0.00025" steps) out. My macro is always spot on. The simple solution is to only use G31 for the initial rapid probe to the guess length, then revert to my step method. This is actually slightly quicker than running a G31 at a low feed rate for the last (say) 10mm.
I've tested the controller with a number of repetitive tasks and then checked to make sure that the actual final position is as commanded by Mach. This included drilling a 2mm sieve plate. All good.
My main recommendation to anyone having support issues is to obtain screen dumps or a short video of the problem to enable the vendor to make an informed comment. "Occasionally missing steps" isn't very helpful as I soon found out.
Best regards,
Louis
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Hi,
fair enough.
If I buy something I expect it to work straight away and if it doesn't I expect instant service from the manufacturer. If its good enough for them to take
my money it good enough that the item work as specified. I would not put up with the rubbish you've had to.
Craig
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The other issue is with Mill Wizard. Purchased last ~August, but unusable because it will not accept the key supplied. I've given up trying to get a new key or advice on what to do.
Hi Louis,
Mill Wizard is a supported product - please contact Mach Support to get this issue resolved. http://www.machsupport.com/support/
Tweakie.
EDIT: Link edited following information provided by Mach Support.
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With regards to lack of support, I've actually had more issues with ArtSoft who refuses to acknowledge an issue/undocumented feature with Mach4 (I use metric, and if I go into config to check a value (ie not change anything), when I come out of config the units always revert to imperial even though G21 is active ... so a 10mm jog gives a 254mm travel!! I need to exit and reopen every time opening config - despite claims to the contrary). Not a major inconvenience once you know about it, but I did break a few tools until figuring out the glitch - which must surely affect others. The other issue is with Mill Wizard. Purchased last ~August, but unusable because it will not accept the key supplied. I've given up trying to get a new key or advice on what to do.
Louis,
I responded to your inquiries about MillWizard in July and September, but never received any responses in return. Based on the information you submitted at that time, it seems that your PC ID needs to be updated. That can be done by logging in to your account at machsupport.com, going to 'Manage my licenses,' and then copying and pasting the PC ID from the Help>About window in MillWizard. If you do not see a PC ID field below your MillWizard license, click Deactivate on the old license and it should appear. Once it looks correct, click 'Add' and a link to download the new license will be sent to your email. Be sure to check your spam folder if you do not see it within a few minutes.
As for the issues with switching units, this is a known issue that our developers are aware of and I was unable to find any tickets in our system from you regarding that issue.
While I do respond to posts on this forum from time to time, the best way to have an issue addressed by a member of the Newfangled Solutions team is to submit a ticket at support.machsupport.com. The contact us page on machsupport.com is not as reliable as it sends an email that one person can access (me) whereas a ticket is immediately available to the entire tech support team. Also, several of the options on the contact us page will result in a canned response directing you to the ticketing system and never actually reach anyone.
I can't say I have all the answers, but if I receive your question or concern it will not be ignored.
Thank you,
Bryanna
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As for XHC support. i had them log into my machine with teamviewer also. He kept reverting me back to using wxMach.exe which limited me to absolutely no screen editing and a very limited Mach4 which is a waste of time. His driver wouldnt work with Mach4GUI.exe.
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Wow! thanks for the rapid response Bryanna,
I looks like I am able to lodge a ticket, but your responses are ending up somewhere else. I'll check my spam and account settings in case I have screwed up. I the meantime I will follow your prompts to get Mill Wizard reinstalled. Thanks again. Really looking forward to using Mill Wizard!
Best regards,
Louis
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Bryanna - confirming that the new licence key worked perfectly, though as suspected the auto reply with the new key arrived as spam. All good thanks!
A belated comment regarding the known issue with Mach4 swapping metric back to imperial units: It would be greatly appreciated if ArtSoft could actively advise users of known significant problems (an email to users each time a mission critical error is discovered for example), as this one caused several broken tools and crashes before I figured out there was a problem with Mach and not me or my pendant. Finding out the hard way in CNC is certainly expensive. Once knowing that I had an issue, I did search the web but did not find anything on-line, despite it being a known issue. Guessing the right key words is random at best.
Best regards,
Louis
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Peter, sorry to hear that your problem couldn't be sorted. I confess to not really understanding what your problem is as all 4 XHC drivers used so far allow access via MachGUI.exe and with screen editing. If it helps, happy to try and replicate your issue if you send me your config file and drivers (ljwibb@hotmail.com). Louis
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Hi all,
Unfortunatly I didn't read this article befor buying XHC card(s). I have two MK4 M4 and Mk4 M3.
Generally this cards a running under Mach4 (Plugin ver. 5.10.2) also with Mach4GUI but not good enough. Firs installation, following instruction was not good at all. After reinstalling Mach4 and putting just plugin files into plugin folder, the Mach4 recognize the card and the movement was possible. But....
Btw. it's true, as Peter described, by working in mm, any go to config will switch Mach4 in inch mode. Tit' not neccessery to restart Mach4, but you have to execute G21 from MDI. It will be nice if Mach4 will stay in metric mode, but this is just nice to have, because when all is configured, there is no need to go in config any time....
Back to XHC. I cannot say what this card is able to do, because I know that backlash compensation is not at all implemented and this was NO GO for me. One of my machines is an old one, and has backlash about 0.1 mm what's far too much. I can put what I want in backlash compensation field in Mach4, nothing happens.
My expirience with support is bad. Also my disput was declined without any word of explanation but OK I took this as a learn-money. So this story is finished for me. On my old machine I take PlanetCNC again (this car has his own SW, no Mach4 is possible!) and for new machine I ordered Vital System Hicon Integra. Yes, Integra is expensive, I agree, but my time is also expensive for me ;-) On the end XHC was very expencive! 200 bugs for one card, two days of trying to run this card properly, several mails on 'support', then again deinstallation etc. So, if someone wants to have this two cards, I will give it for free (just transport have to be payed), but I cannot recommend it. Add a bit more money, and buy one of the cards the people here can recommend!
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Hi All,
doesn't sound like XHC have done themselves any favours, the majority of their customers have had a bad experience
and given the boards the flick.
If I'm not mistaken Alex He has been known to contribute to the forum and I'm surprised he hasn't chimed in on this thread.
It may well be that he wishes to avoid criticism which is only human but if no-one from XHC responds it rather confirms
the suspision that they don't care about what happens to their customers.
Craig
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Hi Craig,
Unfortunatly this is true. The only answer I got from Mr. Alex was: "I copy this email to our after salese engineer Jack Ma. He will give you reply soon. I think."
Mr. Ma has never send me a mail. So much about support quality. I even asked for SDK, to try to fix my problem DIY, or cooperate with the guys there to fix this, no response.
In my opinion, this card is not at all bad hardware, but I supose that Mach4 specification is not implemented as required. Ignoring the customers feedback will not make this card any better :-)
Marijan
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Gaca thanks for writing your experience for others as well. I think the more this is exposed the better. It's just not fair on customers.
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Hi,
In my opinion, this card is not at all bad hardware, but I supose that Mach4 specification is not implemented as required. Ignoring the customers feedback will not make this card any better :-)
Given the investment made to produce good hardware, by your own description, it seems really weird that XHC would
not continue its firmware development to at the least match the standard of the hardware.
I have commented before that some of these companies are just selling houses, they cant do any technical development.
Previous posters have suggested that XHC is the developer/manufacturer but their behaviour suggests otherwise.
Craig
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Hi Peter, hi Craig
Well, I beleave this is a same hardware as for Mach3, with other firmware and plugin, supposing to be Mach4 compatible. I agree, people there do not understand what needs to be done.
I wonder how they want selling product doesn't work properly but this is not my problem.
I'm writing here just to protect other people making the same error I did. Be sure, that all features you need are really implemented, befor buying this product!
For me is XHC as company NO GO.
Marijan
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Any news about this board? Or Alex?
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There is new driver on download page XHC-MACH4 Card Driver-V5.104 http://www.cdxhctech.com/upload/201810/20181009110713983.zip Updated 2018-10-09 11:07:13.
I'm absolutely newbie so can't say something smart but everything looks OK
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Good spotting, I haven't tested it as I moved on from this buying a different controller. Looks like me and a heap of others were the guinea pigs for this. Glad it's working for you tho.
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@Galvanic
The problem I was having was the addresses of the output relays being off by one, so probably related to firmware, but you should check those functions. Energizing three turned on four, etc.
Also the outputs were inconsistent, such that turning off a relay turned it off the first time, then whichever relay you energize next will turn the previous one back on, but not the one requested. Turning off the requested relay turns off the previous one, then the next time it turns on the requested one (although off by one). It makes the outputs unusable, but the rest of the board was fine.
I have since moved on to an Ether-Mach CS which works swell.
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Hi
I bought a XHC Version 5.10 motion card
I have not fitted it to a machine as yet but testing found it will only work under Mach4 Mill not router would not run under XP PRO but mach4 does
I have a win 10 computer set up now but see lots of problems and XHC do not seem to be very helpful I am sure the plugin needs heaps more development I think I will purchase another motion card but what motion controller works best with Mach4 ?
the XHC seems a good package but it is not developed yet and think this may never happen
Regards Ray
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Hi,
as far as I can tell from feedback posted about XHC....its rubbish.
https://warp9td.com/ (https://warp9td.com/) Ethernet SmoothStepper is the model of choice.
https://www.cncdrive.com/ (https://www.cncdrive.com/) UC300 is the model of choice.
https://www.poscope.com/ (https://www.poscope.com/) 57CNC is the model of choice.
https://www.pmdx.com/ (https://www.pmdx.com/) PMDX-424 is the model of choice.
http://www.vitalsystem.com/portal/index.php (http://www.vitalsystem.com/portal/index.php) HiCon Integra is the model of choice.
Each of these models have their strengths and weaknesses but ALL of these companies support their products, have been in the Mach game
for years and they work as they are advertised.
Some recommend:
https://en.cs-lab.eu/shop-cat/cnc-motion-control-system-csmio-products-sets/ (https://en.cs-lab.eu/shop-cat/cnc-motion-control-system-csmio-products-sets/) I think their Mach4 plugin is just too patchy and they
are too expensive for what they are.
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Hi
I have just started setting up a XHC for Mach4 and so far going pretty good
The program will only run with Wxmill but this is started through the GUI it does not run under GUI /router but I just used mill and loaded the router screen and see that every thing so far works and works well though I am still setting up this router up
It seems to be a bit picky I can't change units from inch to metric without problems but just have 2 program and tuned the steppers in both units I would have thought you could tune say in metric and then just change the units and leave the tuning in metric bit is does not like it you have to change both the set and units to the same I am not sure if this is a mach4 problem or a card problem but either way it is a simple work around to have both programs tuned and ready to go and just start the one you want I use both metric and imperial so need to do both easily
I will have the outputs and input working in a day or to and all 24 volts make retro fitting a older machine easy
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#Raymondo
try G20 or G21 in MDI or insert its in your program
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I'm pretty new at this as well. Got one of these XHC cards . I was able to set it up and used it for about 8 months now .
Never tried any of the outputs yet but I had a hard time with the input side of the controller the numbering was out so it took a lot of experimentation to get it going.
now it seems to be fine but still have issues, like spindle speed control. tried everything already but I can't get the 0-10V out of it .
been working at it for three months already and nothing I can come up with seems to work
Anyone knows how to get it working??
on the Mach4 side I broke some tooling due to the inch metric problem too
LAZ
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@Laz
I'm using PWM with no prob
have got a wrong numeration too
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May I ask how did you hook up the VDF to XHC to control the spindle speed and your Mach4 config for it??
Thanks in advance
Laz
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Hey guys, I've had a bunch of people messaging me still about using this card with MACH4.
With the latest builds of MACH4 this plugin is currently making the machine jog without any input. It's dangerous and XHC hasn't made any corrections in some time despite numerous attempts to contact them.
Please do not buy this controller to use with MACH, there are a lot of good options with actual support and development.
I will update this thread if XHC decides to reach out to us and correct the issues.
joeaverage listed some controller alternatives please use one of those.