Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: John40131 on October 08, 2017, 09:50:20 AM
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Hi, Finally got to startup but no motors running, I have tried all the suggested info from machsupport but no joy, my first thought was the Stepper motor PSU I got from ebay was 24volts 15amps BUT it wasn't after checking realized they sent me a 12volt 30amp OK but should still have worked, the steppers Drivers are TB6600 and BOB is an ECG-Savebase, first thought was BOB PCGND needs connecting to motor PSU GND but then saw schematic showing opto-coupled inside TB6600 so +5V goes to all +ve on TB6600 and connections from BOB Pulse Dir go to -ve of TB6600.
I then put a scope on BOB output connections and jogged X,Y,Z I did have some signals on PULSE output a train of about 10 pulses then a couple of second gap and again then same then a gap of about 10 seconds and again pulses high varied from 5V to about 2v, the signal on DIR went from 0v to 5v when jogging from X Left to X right and same on all others, so should I be able to see a pulsed signal from these PULSE output, my scope connection was from PC 5V connection and one of the output connections.
Checked Jog which is 50%
Parallel pins are 2,3 X axis 3,4 Y axis 5,6 Z axis
Also tried Enable active Low/High which I have on pin 14 no diffference.
Grateful for any help.
Regards John
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Made error on Parallel pins should read 2,3 X axis 4,5 Y Axis 6,7 Z Axis.
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Hi John,
If you attach your <profile> .xml file (the one from your Mach3 folder) we can check your set-up. Copy the .xml file and rename it to john40131.xml before attaching.
Tweakie.
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Hi thanks for quick reply, sorry to be a pain.
I take you mean the Mach3mill.xml file I have renamed.
Also looked at pulses from Parallel port and they are very sharp pulses and the BOB seems to give same, thought it would have been more like a square wave.
Regards John
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I read another thread about motors not running and was asking about parallel port, mine is on board was 0x378, I tried to put a Dynamode PCI Parallel card I have but cant find drivers for that so binned that idea.
John
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Hi,
what sort of PC are you using? What version of Windows is it running? Have you run DriverTest.exe?
Craig
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Hi John,
Just checked your .xml and cannot find anything really bad. Just a couple of suggestions...
Uncheck A Axis is Angular (General Config).
In Motor Tuning set Step Pulse to 2 minimum & save change.
Try changing Step Pulse to Active Low in Motor Outputs.
Try changing Enable1 to Active High in Output Signals.
Change just one item at a time and try it before changing another item - you know the fault-finding drill.
(Your Velocity and Accelerations are low but that’s OK at this stage, they can be increased later).
I am sure you are aware of this but if you are using an OS later than Win7 or 64 bit then it will never work with the LPT parallel port – you will need an external motion controller.
Tweakie.
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Thanks for help.
Joeaverage...My machine is home built from an older MB which has a parallel port on board :-
MB Asus M2N68-AM Plus
Memory 2gb Corsair XMS DDR2
CPU AMD Athlon 7750 Dual Core 2.71ghz
Hard Drive SSD 128gb
OS Windows 7 32bit service pack 1
Checking Bios
Parallel port Settings
Address 378
IRQ (IRQ7)
Set to Normal, other options are EPP,ECP and EPP + ECP
I did a Driver test, strange would only work under administrator, posted pics.
Tweakie
I need to replace this power supply which was sent in error before I go any further only PSU I got was a 24v 3.2amp which I tried but could smell something getting hot so turned off.
Regards John
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Hi,
well the PC and parallel port certainly look fine.
What breakout board are you using? Can you post a pic and maybe the manual?
Craig
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Hi,
it suppose to be ECG-SAVEBASE but put PDF file of board etc.
Regards John
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Ohhh, one further on this file it shows device manager I should NOT have ! or ? , I have a question mark in Mach3 Driver...not sure of relevance.
John
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Hi John,
are you making any progress.
I'm not sure but I think the question mark alongside the driver icon is to do with User Account Control in Windows 7.
You may already have noted that you have to run Mach as Administrator to get the required privilege. I encountered the
same thing some years ago when I set up my little Atom board PC with Windows7 and parallel port. I can't remember just
how I worked around that but there is a way in Windows7 for a particular program, Mach for instance, to always be run at
Administrator privilege when you open it. I will try to find the process, I did post it on the forum when I did it but it would be
about four years ago now.
The important point is that question mark or not I don't think is the issue with your machine.
May I suggest disconnect all motors but one, the X say. Its so easy to get confused when you've got multiple axes...when if you can figure
one out, and that would be a step up, then the others are usually easy.
Now you need to get busy with your scope. First can you see the DIR pin of the BoB change state as you jog backwards and forwards?
Is that signal being applied to the right pin of the driver? Is there a hardwired setting or jumper on the driver board that sets Step/Dir
or CW/CCW ? With the motor output shaft disconnected from the screw issue a long slow movement to the driver and probe the Step signal.
eg G1 X 5000 F5, should take hour to complete and you can probe without time pressure.
Craig
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Hi Joeaverage,
I am waiting for 24 volt PSU I ordered from e-bay to arrive prob be next Monday, got a few things I have been looking at:-
1:- The BOB board I have uses MM74HC245A Octal 3-STATE Transceiver I think you get out what you put in.
2: Seen this BOB board from Twovolt which uses 74HC14 which are Schmitt triggers, that will clean the incoming pulse, can get all bits easily just PTH Printed circuit board to get but got to copy schematic on Eagle to get gerber files to make, not sure if make a difference but maybe worth a try if get bogged down.
I will post as soon as I have anymore news thanks for all the help.
Regards John
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Hi Craig,
Got power supply up and running, tried all you suggest still no movement, DIR voltage toggles from 0v to 5v when "X" axis is changed direction on output of TB6600, my scope is only basic but there is a pules and the pulses ramp from 5v downwards on output of BoB to TB6600
I have tried my motors ("X" and "A" cloned with an Arduino and these motors work fine albeit had a bit of a problem with skipping using at first, but trial and error using CNC Shioeld and DRV8825 drivers at least got it running reasonably smoothly albeit frying a Uno board and a couple of DRV8825's, I used Universal G-Code Sender and I am using Nema 17 motors think on my first impression my setup is underpowered, But, will upgrade once get working
My other thought was Stepper Driver switches on the TB6600 SW1 - SW6 I have set OFF/ON/OFF/ON/ON/OFF i.e 8 micro step/1600 pulse per rev..Current 1.5amp PK 1.7 Amp.
When I tried running with Arduino, the Nema 17 motors would only run with CNC Shield set to no jumpers to M01 jumper i.e Full step and half step higher wouldn't run not sure if that is relevant but if I increased by putting MO2 and MO3 jumpers in motor would not run.
The other thing I was going to try was using an Arduino to drive the TB6600 that could confirm if SW1 to 6 are correct, there are lots of YouTube ideas but my end goal is to use Mach3.
I would be most grateful for any help from the results I have so far.
I also enc a pic of pulses on scope.
Regards John
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Hi sorry for another post,
Just had another go and find the following.
After setting Enable 1 to "Active Low" i.e Tick
Direction Low i.e Tick or no Tick no difference
In Motor Tuning if I set :-
Step Pulse to 5 micro Second.
Dir to 1 micro second
I got some action the motor wasn't moving just pulsing if I tried to turn it seemed to turn a little bit but just pulsing or Jerking
So at least I have some action my thoughts are Micro Step settings are wrong
Regards John
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Hi John,
sounds to me that your TB6600 drivers may be at issue.
I think using the Arduino and shield is just confusing the issue. Put it aside for the moment. I suggest also that you disconnect ALL motors
but one, your X axis say. If you have to remove the coupling to prevent movement of your machine so be it.
On the TB6600 driving your one remaining motor set NO micro steps. Remember this is to test and get the thing to work, unlikely to be the
final setup but you have to get control of your drivers/motors. This setting means 200 pulses per rev. You'll need to set your 'steps per' in
your motor tuning page to some suitably low figure, likewise set your velocity very low. Now try jogging backwards and forwards.
Craig
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Just thought of something so had a quick look, I thought wire out of phase.
I think I found the issue, the pulsing and Jerking was a broken wire on the "X" axis motor and guess what after reconnecting it worked, BUT, only with pulse width set at 5 micro seconds tried no drive then with belt to axis and drove fine tried the Acc and Velocity and seem to work fine and motor sounds smooth went up to 250 velocity and was fine, so the answer is the pulse width in motor tuning.
Regards John
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Hi John,
thats good news.
Those drivers don't have a good reputation. If you are planning to upgrade they are prime candidates.
Leadshine AM882 have been recommended on the forum as have any Gecko drives.
Craig
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Hi Craig
Thanks for help all motors working, just got to set limits and and Homing using Artsoft tutorials.
The AM882 look great but a bit out of my price range at the moment I am retired so limited income and they are about mid £50 each from China, Wife would kill me if I spent all that, BUT, what I have found is my "Y" gantry and "Z" assembly are top heavy so going to put single lead screw on "X" with a single Nema 23 Motor and a 600mm supported 12mm bars and fix the "Y" gantry and put a moving table as the "X" axis so I can keep "Y" axis supports rigid.
I'll probably use the old bits for a 3D printer next year.
Regards John
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Hi John,
kool. If your wife kills you then you can kiss your CNC hobby goodbye! LOL
Once you start turning out useful work then she may relent particularly if some idea of her own can be created.
Craig
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Hi,
I repair welding equipment for a living. We support a brand of pickling machine which is a DC current source to a carbon fibre brush with an acid etchant
which is used to clean up stainless steel post weld. They work well and they need to, they are expensive. The Austrailian company that makes them is
a low volume manufacturer and they use 3D printed plastic handles and torch couplings. The problem is the plastic produced by a 3D printer is s*********t!
It lacks the density and strength of an injection moulded part.
3D printing may offer a few production wrinkles that cannot be matched by subtractive methods like milling but the quality/density/strength of the resultant
printed material means that they are for decorative purposes only. Maybe there are printers and print heads that can do a better job but they bloody well better
do a better job before I'd use any 3D printed part in a serious engineering application.
Craig
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Hi,
Setting Limits, I find that when I hit a limit switch and it back off slightly I can then drive into again after pressing reset and the DRO number has increased from its original number by about 0.0300 on both "X" and "Y" on "Z" its less about 0.0020 to a higher number.
Also has I am slaving "X" with "A" when I do the same again the "A" motor wants to go a little further then the "X" motor and then comes back. Nema 17 "X/Y", Nema 23 "Z"
Lastly on "X" axis I get a negative number on the DRO when I move from Zero into the table how do I change to a + number.
Apart from that everything seems fine.
Regards John
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Sorry for keep being a pest, I hate asking for help.
I think sorted most, Homing seems fine know, Z doesn't seem to come off limit switch at 0.000 even when I set set the Home offset to 0.500 the same as all the others, but that could be I use a Lead screw which may need a larger Number.
Only problem I am left with is the axis move in a negative direction from home / Machine zero, Z is fine and the "A" drive motor seems to sing a bit after Homing until I hit either reset or the "X" axis limit switch again.
Regards John
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Hi John,
I think there is some confusion about limits and homes. Limit switches are at the end of each axis and the principle reason for them is to stop the machine
from banging into the endstop and wrecking itself. Home switches are to reference your machine at the start of your session.
It is quite common to use the limit switches as home switches temporarily at the beginning of the session while you reference your machine. During that time
the limit switches have to be ignored and treated differently. Once homing (referencing) is complete then they go back to being limit switches.
To be perfectly honest I think this idea of 'double duty switches' just to save a few bucks and/or a few Mach inputs is a disaster waiting to happen.
The common way to wire your limit switches is to have all six switches in series with normally closed contacts. If any one of the switches opens the machine
Estops. The machine can't tell which switch opened just that one has. You can then hit <limit override> and back off the offending axis , remembering
that while you do so Mach can't stop you from making a mistake, if you go the wrong way you may make the situation worse. So while this method has its
disadvantages it does only require one Mach input pin.
If you wish to do the 'double duty' home switch thing....hit <ref axis> and that axis will drive in the nominated direction at the nominated speed until the limit
switch string goes open circuit, then it will back off until the switch closes and reset the machine co-ords commonly to zero but you can nominate any number,
the 'home offset', that you like. It does not mean that it drives to that location. So while homing the one input pin is treated differently and you have no limit
protection at all. This has caused innumerable crashes over the years.
I prefer to have three homes switches in addition to the six limit switches. I also prefer that each home switch have a dedicated input pin. Given that
a parallel port only has 5 input pins you are going to run out. You need a second port, now you can have not only another 5 inputs but you can assign
pins 2-9 as inputs also rather than their more normal use as outputs so the second port gives you an extra 13 inputs. Highly recommended. With all these
inputs you don't have to compromise, the limit switches ALWAYS are limits and HOMES are only ever home switches. Further than that it means you home
switches can be really nice microswitches which give repeatable and accurate homing which is a real boon to your machining operations.
If you are prepared to stump up the bucks for a PCI to parallel card and another breakout board you will make a big advance it what you can achieve and reduce
the chances of confusion which result in crashes.
Craig
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Hi Craig,
Very grateful for your comments, I will certainly look at doing that, I have limit switches on all axis at moment using pins P12 P13 and P15 for X Y Z, P11 for Tool setting and P10 for E-Stop, they go via high when active which I know is wrong so will modify that so if wire breaks no damage is done.
I have another PCI Parallel card which I will use as you suggested, and I am looking at making another Breakout board from the schematic I put up on this thread, I am an electronics/Computer engineer so that makes things easy.
I was also looking at some YouTube videos on all these procedures and found that Roger Webb gave me an idea to try the Soft Limits similar to the milling table that he did.
I also think the "A" drive that was singing a bit once I homed my system, it only stopped when I hit Reset or a limit switch again, may stop with proper Homing.
Also got to set the table Soft Max and Soft Min, I presume as I have "A" slaved to "X" I set "X" axis settings in "A" settings the same.
Regards John
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Hi John,
I have limit switches on all axis at moment using pins P12 P13 and P15 for X Y Z
so they are limits, that is three pairs, of two switches?
Soft limits are very useful ONLY if the machine is accurately and repeatablly referenced.
Craig