Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 07:18:51 AM

Title: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 07:18:51 AM
OK , the problem is nothing is happening when I try anything, absolutely no communication with the engraver/router.
OS, windows 7 with absolutely NO other programs in the computer.
Mach3 and Planet CNC USB ?? are the only programs and the Planet one was only installed after I found that Mach3 wasn't communicating with the engraver/router.
I had installed the DEMO version of Mach3 in my MacPro and tried to run it using Parallels Desktop, but no joy. So I bought a recon PC with a fresh copy of Windows 7 installed. Installed my REGISTERED copy of Mach 3 and applied the licence. (My name comes where it's supposed to be)
The Engraver/router is the Chinese 3020T  4 axis   (VEVOR Tack Hooks).
Using the USB or Parallel ports make no difference, there is no jog function or movement when I load a demo file. The File runs on the computer but that's all that happens.
What do I do please ?
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 07:20:25 AM
More info. SEE MIDDLE PICTURE.. When powered up these lights come on in the controller:-
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 07:21:35 AM
Final info.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 07:39:09 AM
Hi,
welcome aboard.

The very first picture you posted shows a parallel printer port and a USB port. I suspect the USB port is just a means for your PC to power the input
circuits of your breakout board but the signals are communicated over the parallel port. Do you have a DB25 cable?

Given that your machine requires a parallel port to communicate have installed the parallel port driver? Have you run DriverTest.exe to see
whether its running OK?

You may need to go to the Artsoft website an get a copy
Quote
Mach3 CNC Controller
Software Installation and
Configuration

You need to read section 2.1.3    and then read it again   and again!
Quote
2.1.3 The Vital Reboot
You must reboot Windows before running Mach3. This reboot is vital. If you do not do it, you will get
into great difficulties which can only be overcome by using the Windows Control Panel to uninstall the
driver manually. So please reboot now.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 08:21:17 AM
Thanks for the reply, I have used each port singly and together.. I said
OK , the problem is nothing is happening when I try anything, absolutely no communication with the engraver/router.
OS, windows 7 with absolutely NO other programs in the computer.

Using the USB or Parallel ports make no difference, there is no jog function or movement when I load a demo file. The File runs on the computer but that's all that happens.
What do I do please ?
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 03, 2017, 10:21:47 AM
If you attach your <profile>.xml file (the one from your Mach3 folder) we can at least check the settings you are using for Parallel Port operation. Copy and rename the file to Basil.xml before attaching.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 01:05:46 PM
Thanks 'Tweakie' unfortunately I am not au fait with Windows and PCs, I have always used Macs. So, I don't know how to do a screenshot in windows; so I've copied the Mac3 folder onto a portable dive (just for this purpose of doing a screenshot of the contents) and on the mac I CAN take a screenshot. There is no file <profile.xml> file but there is a file 'profile' that's a text file and it contains just the text :- Mach3Mill.
I appreciate your help..
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 01:13:51 PM
I purchased the licence from Amadeal http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/Mach-3-Licence-.html but received no manual, I followed the instructions that the program gave when it was installing..
Clean install On a new refurbished Dell on a freshly installed version of Windows 7, with absolutely no other programs or games installed Just Mach3, and when it wouldn't work I downloaded "Planet CNC USB" but that didn't work either. Everything is less than a week old..Except the engraver/router, that's a few weeks old..


EDIT; Attachment containing personal details deleted for security reasons.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 01:32:57 PM
I got this system just to engrave 16 and 19mm copper discs with my company logo, and also to machine some small aluminium parts for my reproduction Van Eps Dampers.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 02:28:18 PM
Hi,
now you have to get it to work....

Run DriverTest.exe from the Mach3 folder an report the results or better still post a screenshot. This tests the parallel port on your PC, you don't even
need the machine hooked up, in fact probably better not to.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 02:54:13 PM
OK that's done..Sorry no screenshots (Don't know how in Windows) just pictures from my 'not-so-smartphone'
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 05:07:41 PM
Hi,
that looks OK.

Next test is to go to the MDI screen and issue a few manual commands and see if the DROs reflect the instruction.
You also want to check that you can jog. Both of these tests can be done without the machine plugged in, in
fact may be better without it. All you are doing is testing the imediate mode of Mach.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 05:47:30 PM
Impetuosity struck and I plugged it in. The up and down arrows make the X axis go to the left, (either arrow, and the age up and page down arros make the Y axis come forward, both of them.. ??
OK i'll return to what you suggested and unplug it..
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 06:15:45 PM
Thanks Craig, I'm a complete newbie so bear with me, I'm presuming that by manual commands you are asking me to enter G code into the relevant space to the left after the big blue "INPUT" tab..Any codes in particular ? and what's the procedure between each instruction space or return ? Remember I have no operation manual..in this mode, MDI Screen, the l/r up/down and page up/down have NO effect on any readout.
Just to clarify I am NOT using the USB, i'm connected (Well not at the moment) with a parallel port lead (DB25 ?)
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 06:28:32 PM
Hi,
you will need to learn the absolute basics of Gcode in order to do any useful work.

Go to the Artsoft website and download some of the manuals, they work best when you actually read them!

Are your units inches or metric?

If metric:
G0 X100 <enter>
G0 x0 <enter> should move the X axis 100mm and then back again.

If inches:
G0 X4 <enter>
G0 X0 <enter> should move the X axis 4 inches and then back again.

If the manual jogging is enabled, a button on the main screen, then on MDI page hit <tab> and a flyout should appear
with arrows for manual jogging. As to what all the different options are you need to RTFM.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
OK I understand about the manual NOW, I didn't have one on the supplied USB Stick with the licence on it..I will of course RTFM in 'F' depth..Meanwhile, I tried inputting those codes you gave...No visible effect anywhere on the DRO's. Here is a screenshot of what the jog functions look like when opened via 'TAB'
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 08:54:27 PM
Hi,
if the DROs are not changing then Mach is not producing any pulses and your machine won't go.
Solve this issue and you will be well on your way.

Is Mach enabled?. On the main screen there is a Reset button, when its red and flashing Mach is disabled.
Can you operate the button and have it change from green to red and back again?

When you jogged did you use the keyboard arrows or the arrows on the on-screen flyout?

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 08:58:38 PM
Hi,
I missed reading one of your posts, you've had some luck jogging with the machine plugged in. That means
Mach can work and it can generate pulses and output them to the parallel port. Good news.

Still a bit bemused as to why the DROs won't change when you jog.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 09:01:35 PM
Sorry about all my lack of comprehension of G-Codes, but that doesn't explain why the communication is all askew betwixt man, machine and machinery.. one further thing I got wrong, the OS on the PC is Windows XP.
Is there no basic configuration file for the pin assignment. When I look at the assignments in Mach3 they ALL Have a red X ! where do I start from please ?
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 09:08:10 PM
Hi,
start by getting the DROs to work.

Worry about ports and pins a bit down the track.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 09:24:49 PM
So I've taken a few more proper screenshots do they help ?
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 09:25:46 PM
More..
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 03, 2017, 09:38:24 PM
Hi,
your right, all of them are blank.

First things first, tell me more about the DRO situation.

Try jogging on the flyout and observe the DROs. You absolutely have to get this sorted or all else is meaningless.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 09:40:03 PM
You've spent long enough with me on this for the moment I don't want to monopolise your work here. I must go now aas it's almost 3 am here on the edge of the National Forest.. I have client's bars to finish and post in the morning. So must go now..Is it OK if I return to this post Monday Evening ? I will have absorbed a smidgeon of what's required regarding G-Code..
Basil
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 03, 2017, 09:42:08 PM
NOTHING happens when I jog on the 'flyout' or when I try the up/down etc buttons on the keyboard..AND the Mach3 message on startup says driver loaded..OK for the moment from the land of the heavy SMOG clouds, to the land of the Long White Cloud, Kia Ora..

http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/12%20Farewell%20(For%20Just%20A%20While).mp3

Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 04, 2017, 06:25:19 AM
Quote
Thanks 'Tweakie' unfortunately I am not au fait with Windows and PCs, I have always used Macs. So, I don't know how to do a screenshot in windows; so I've copied the Mac3 folder onto a portable dive (just for this purpose of doing a screenshot of the contents) and on the mac I CAN take a screenshot. There is no file <profile.xml> file but there is a file 'profile' that's a text file and it contains just the text :- Mach3Mill.
I appreciate your help..


Hi Basil,

Don’t worry about the .xml file as I see from your screen-shots that you have not yet defined any Mach3 configuration settings.
You need to find out (from your CNC supplier) the Step, Direction & Estop pin numbers (relating to the 25 way Parallel Port connector) so that these can be entered into the Mach3, Ports and Pins settings page. Once that is done you should be able to obtain machine axis movement.
Your CNC supplier may also be able to provide you with a fully configured .xml file which can be copied into your Mach3 folder – this will have all the Ports and Pins ready configured for your CNC machine.

The set-up procedure is laid out in the Mach3 manual which can be downloaded from here;   http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/product-manuals/
There are also many helpful video’s relating to set-up and motor tuning etc. available if you browse the Newfangled website http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/


Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 04, 2017, 07:09:28 AM
Hi Basil,
as tweakie points out there should be info on pin-outs from your supplier.

It should still be possible to get the DROs to track MDI and jog commands. The settings you've highlighted are associated with the parallel port,
ie the motion control output, the DROs should work even in absence of any of those settings.

There may be one thing to try, I'm doubtful that it will work but it may....its not like I haven't been wrong before.

On the Config/Ports and Pins/Motor Outputs page enable (check mark) the X, Y and Z axes. You don't, at this stage need to fill in the pin numbers, we
are only trying to get the DROs working. May pay to restart Mach and try MDI and jogging on the flyout screen. If that doesn't work I'm wondering if you've
got a corrupt copy of Mach. If that's the case delete the original and download a copy of the .062 version and try again. Its probably a good idea to use the
Control Panel to manually 'dig out' and delete the parallel port driver and have Mach install a fresh driver at the same time. The only thing you need to save
from your current installation is the licence file, usually called Mach1Lic.dat in the Mach3 folder.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 04, 2017, 07:44:29 AM
Everyone is being so helpful, but please excuse my apparent dumbness; Trust me I am not dumb I lecture on the university circuit here in the United Kingdom on "Music Technology and Performing Arts" and know most computer based audio and video editing/creation programs inside out..BUT this it totally new to me as is Windows; although invented by Mac I find it a little hard to grasp some of the vagaries of the child of "Mac'.. nonetheless, I'm slowly grasping the 'nitty gritty' and switching back and forth betwixt my systems is no problemmo now after a few initial hectic days; This mid septuagenarian says thank you from the heart of my ..... oops, oh my nearly said it !
No, I thank you from the Bottom of my Heart..
Is this the " Step, Direction & Estop pin numbers (relating to the 25 way Parallel Port connector)"
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 04, 2017, 08:05:24 AM
Quote
Is this the " Step, Direction & Estop pin numbers (relating to the 25 way Parallel Port connector)"

Yes indeed sir, they look like the pins you should be assigning to the various Step & Direction, etc. functions (They will all be Port 1)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 04, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
Sir ? as long as you don't spell it Cur"..
OK the onscreen digital readouts now coincide with the tab opened jog wheel, AND the keyboard up/down Left/Right etc buttons BUT the milling machine is not responding at all..I've inported G code for the Mach3 G code folder, demo's I presume; They run "On Screen" but the miller does not.
What's next please ?
BTW, this is who I am :-->
https://youtu.be/nFNytJTJ9AA
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 04, 2017, 11:27:04 AM
Excellent guitar work (I shall keep very quiet about my guitar playing  ;)).

Try initial set-up as attached.

Is Estop working ?

Pressing the Red Button on your controller should make the Mach3 on-screen Reset button flash red/green boarder. Releasing the red button on your controller (and clicking the on-screen button) should make the Mach3 on-screen button have a steady green boarder.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 04, 2017, 03:28:37 PM
Thanks Tweakie, Just in from a hard slog of a day in the workshop catching up on back orders, polishing 'Polyoxymethylene' is a pig because it melts at 160 degrees. :o. I'll try those settings now..Regarding guitar, consider that I may have a slight advantage over you, I've been full-time Pro for just 60 years. ::)
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 04, 2017, 04:00:18 PM
OK ! Kudos to you 'Tweakie'.. It's working, but no control of spindle speed and the X,Y,Z movement is very slow. I loaded the <TestCircle.tap> and it took 11 minutes and 7 seconds to do half.?
BUT <roadrunner.tap> took just 4 min. 54 sec.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 05, 2017, 01:13:49 AM
Hi Basil,

The next step is to decide if you will be working in Metric or Imperial units and calculating your Steps per Unit - there is a calculator here;  http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16315.0.html

Once that is done then fine tune everything (setting Velocity & Acceleration in Motor Tuning) to obtain best and 100% reliable performance.

All this is best done with reference to the Mach3 manual as I have only mentioned the basics here.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 05, 2017, 06:29:14 AM
Thanks 'Tweakie', ATPIT I have no control over spindle speed except for the knob on the control box ? ??? ???
If I can just get that sorted so that Mach3 has control of the spindle then the calibration etc SHOULD be a doddle..I will report upon my progress as and when.



Steel Players do it without fretting!
(http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/gtr123.gif)
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 05, 2017, 06:50:10 AM
Hi Basil,

I am not certain that your control box contains a spindle on/off relay (at least it cannot be seen in the photo's) and the port and pin data you posted earlier does not mention spindle control. I think you may only have manual spindle control at this moment in time.

Can you see a relay ?

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 05, 2017, 06:53:26 AM
I'll check later, BTW the emergency stop knob operates in a counter intuitive way. I'm used to pushing in the safety knobs on machines to STOP them, this has to be in, and in an emergency you have to twist it and it pops out. OMG just as well we're talking about machinery isn't it !  >:D
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 05, 2017, 07:11:53 AM
Hi Basil,

Config. / Ports and Pins / Input Signals / EStop - change the Active Low to a tick. That should reverse the operation to how it should be  ;)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 05, 2017, 08:20:58 AM
Hi Basil,

Config. / Ports and Pins / Input Signals / EStop - change the Active Low to a tick. That should reverse the operation to how it should be  ;)

Tweakie.
OK Thanks..
Regarding Spindle AND 4th axis. No relays anywhere in the control box, there is a front mounted on/off for the spindle and a potentiometer controlling the variable speed. There is a separate pcb for the spindle AND it just has positive and negative volts out. (Two wires to the spindle) The control of the 4th axis is on a separate board I haven't checked its function yet.
How do I check it ? G-code ? or what ..
Up until now I was under the impression that "Chinese Junk" was a boat, this boat don't float !
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 05, 2017, 10:42:11 AM
Hi Basil,

You perhaps need more details from the supplier of your controller regarding spindle control but my guess is that it is just manually operated.  

If your 4th axis (A axis) is connected and not Inhibited within Mach3 (Settings (Alt-6) page) then you should be able to control it’s rotation from the MDI (Alt-2) page.
For example Input…
F500
G0 A100
(Pressing Return after each entry).
The axis should now rotate 100 units.
The A axis has to be set-up with steps per unit Velocity and Acceleration in Motor Tuning like the other axis etc.

Hope this helps.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 07, 2017, 07:26:29 PM
Well, I calibrated the X, Y and Z motors. BUT I've managed to break my first bit, when Calibrating the Z axis the figure I put in was too great and oops it broke the bit before I could hit the stop. Anyway I haven't yet tried to calibrate the A axis and I need to find out how to set the travel limits of X, Y and Z so that they stay within their working range and don't crash.So my machine has metric leadscrews, 400 is the exact motor setting. The antbacklash ballscrews are pretty good and the accuracy on repeated cycles is very close.Just guide me please as to where in the manuals I'l find infoon setting ABSOLUTE limits without using limit switches.
BTW just as an afterthought, have you seen the latest vernier calliper from (I won't say) it has Metric, imperial AND Fractions on its digital display; Pretty smart I thought..

Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 07, 2017, 08:28:09 PM
Hi Basil,
you need limit switches if you want to use limits at all. You could use 'soft limits' where you tell the machine
where abouts the boudaries are from some defined home point. It works OK but hardwired limit switches are preferred.

Was it an expensive bit?

I know your're in the UK and I'm in New Zealand but you must have heard me shout and swear when I broke my diamond
coated 0.5mm endmill, $250 NZ....I bloody near cried and yelled loud enuf for you to hear!

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: basilhenriques on September 07, 2017, 10:14:25 PM
Hi Craig, no it wasn't a bit expensive !! I thought I heard some sound emanating from the antipode of Coton-in-the-Elms but no, it was the better half (Pat) playing 'Kiri Te Kanawa' a bit of a diamond in her own right..
Now tell me what is the most economical but effective program to convert text (any font) to G-Code please? and is there also an economical way of converting jpg or tiff to G-Code ?
I have the complete Adobe suite in my MacPro and also Microsoft Office..AND Parallels Desktop so I can run PC programs in the Mac; plan is to not overload the PC and keep it completely clean except for Mach3, that the only program on it except for Windoze XP resident ones..
Regarding soft limits and limit switches, my intention is to just do engraving on 16 and 19mm copper discs and some very light milling of small shapes in 1/16" aluminium Just the outline shape of 1/16” x 1-5/16 x 2-3/16” Plate
The engraving on the copperdiscs is using an outlined version of Apple Chancery Italic (Postcript Font)
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: joeaverage on September 08, 2017, 12:20:56 AM
Hi Basil,
I'm not into engraving so I can't help you with software that converts an image into Gcode. There are many
hundreds of users who can help.

Names which I've heard are Vectric and VCarve.

Might also pay to do a bit of reading on the CAD/CAM Gcode board of the forum, must be thousands of posts on
such matters.

Craig
Title: Re: All the Gear and No Idea (as to why nothing happens)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 08, 2017, 01:40:42 AM
Quote
Now tell me what is the most economical but effective program to convert text (any font) to G-Code please?

Hi Basil,

Try 'F-Engrave' - pretty cost effective as it's free. This thread refers ; http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,33947.0.html

Tweakie.