Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: JoeAmerTool on June 06, 2017, 09:52:29 AM
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Hello all,
The company I work for bought a CNC 8060Z CNC machine from ebay. It uses USB 2.0 for the controller to computer connection. Mach 3 is what it uses. I have seen plenty of discussions about USB controllers/boards, but absolutely nothing about these china controllers that support USB, everything is parallel port it seems.
When I go to jog my axis motors via arrow keys or the pendent, they do not move. I have run this on two computers running 64 bit windows 10 (maybe that's why?) so far. I have set my ports and pins to the same that most people have. Spindle works fine.
Is there a separate USB driver required for this?
Pictures here : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gzpeTme6nOVk9IRHY2RGpRdmM?usp=sharing
Thank you,
Joe P.
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Mach3 will not work with Win10 or 64 bit, and no Laptops either
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Thank you for the quick reply, I will get my hands on a new computer and try it out!
Joe P.
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Hi,
Mach will work on 32 or 64 bit OS's but the parallel port will work ONLY on 32 bit.
An external motion controller would be fine, there are some which are USB into the PC but DB25
out. They are way WAY smarter than a converter. It may be, from your description, what has been
supplied. Note the Chinese made controllers have given a lot of grief over the years. CNCdrive or
PMDX do USB to Parallel external controllers with the right plugin and they have a great rep for
backup.
My suggestion is don't waste money on another PC just get a decent controller.
Craig
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I’m confused Craig because this site
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
under the requirements tab states Mach3 works only with 32 bit OS (64 bit will not work)
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Hi Nicolas,
Mach3 or Mach4 will run on 32 OR 64 bit. Its the parallel port which is picky, it will ONLY run on 32 bit OS.
If you consider Mach3 in its entirety, that is to say the GUI/trajectory planner AND its 'native' parallel port, then by virtue of the PP
then you can ONLY use 32 bit. If, like me, you consider Mach3 as two components, the GUI/Planner and the separate pulse engine/parallel
port and you only want the GUI/Planner then you can use either 32 or 64 bit. This of course requires a substitute for the PP usually called an
external motion controller, the UC100 and the SmoothStepper being popular examples.
When Mach3 power up a window should open that allows you to choose your motion controller for this session. If you have a PP installed (ie a 32 bit OS)
and say a USB connected motion controller like the UC100 you could choose between the two. In fact you could have more, you might have an EtherNet
connected SmoothStepper as well, it will be in the list, just select the one you want. For them to be on the list the plugin for the device (PP or UC100 or ESS)
must be in the Plugins folder of Machs Directory.
Usually once you've selected your motion device you will just leave Mach that way in future sessions. There is a check box which allows you to hide the select
window at startup and speed things up. Its common to check it. In order then to see the window go to Function Cfg's/Reset Device Sel...and you will then
have access to the window and your choice will be enacted on restart of Mach.
Craig
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No worries, we had a computer here already. Win 7 32 bit. If this does not work we will get an external controller.
I installed mach 3 on it, however when I plugged the USB into the computer, it said it could not find the "XHC Mach3 Card"
I'm assuming this is a driver that I need. Anyone know where I can find it?
Joe P.
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Thanks Craig for the explanation
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No worries, we had a computer here already. Win 7 32 bit. If this does not work we will get an external controller.
I installed mach 3 on it, however when I plugged the USB into the computer, it said it could not find the "XHC Mach3 Card"
I'm assuming this is a driver that I need. Anyone know where I can find it?
Joe P.
http://www.cdxhctech.com/html/edownloads/
Tweakie.
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Tweakie,
Thank you for this resource!
Unfortunately I cannot find the "XHC Mach3 Card Driver", only the "XHC Mach4 Card Driver"
Any other drivers I could try that are present on the site?
Thank you,
Joe P.
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Hi,
no offence but why waste your time with that outfit? I don't know whether Chinese suppliers are intent on 'ripping you off' by virtue of lack
of support or that the communication barrier is such that try to support English speaking customers is impossible. What is certainly true
that nearly every last pirate copy of Mach comes from China and even where a Chinese controller does work there are parts like probing or
THC or threading that don't.
There are several US manufacturers, and a couple of English/European ones offering products that WORK and the have BACKUP. Don't piss
around with Chinese junk.... get a decent controller.
Craig
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Craig,
What are your specific recommendations for 4 Axis controllers?
Thanks,
Joe P.
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Hi,
if using Mach3 then the following companies have solutions that work:
CNCdrive
PMDX
Warp9
PoKeys
VitalSystems
CSlabs
Dynamotion
Galill
The first four all have useful products for under $200 whereas the other are more expensive but are 'industrial' strength.
If using Mach4 the list thins down a bit, I don't think Galill, Dynamotion or CSlabs have Mach4 ready plugins yet. That is
subject to change, they are working on it!
I personally use an Ethernet connected SmoothStepper made by Warp9, largely because of their commitment to Mach4.
Craig
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Craig,
Thank you I am looking through them now.
So lets say I bought a 4 axis controller, can I use the current Drivers/other contents I already have, or am I buying separate accessories from the same place I get the controller from? If buying separate, what other components do I need to get my machine running?
Thank you again for the help, much appreciated,
Joe P.
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Hi,
I would consider a BoB if the motion controller requires one, the ESS does for instance. Thereafter I would attempt to use what has been
supplied. Can you post a couple of pics of your stepper drivers etc?
Craig
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Oh ok that makes sense.
"Inside Controller" Folder
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gzpeTme6nORUp6b0pNeDNUREk?usp=sharing
Joe P.
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Hi,
can you inspect one of the stepper drives a bit more closely, hopefully to indentify the manufacturer and get a manual or pinout. You need to
know what each of the four input wires are. Cant see how the VFD is controlled, looks a bit like a simple on/off relay on the motion control
board.
Maybe in the first instance don't worry about controlling the VFD, just get the axes, limits and homes working.
Craig
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The drivers look like the ones I used before from Keling. They have deep switches to set the parameters but it looks like they are set correctly since the green light on them is ON.
Years ago I had a similar problem, all was fine but I could not move any axes. With the help from Keling I discovered it had to do with my limit switches, I had wired them between the COM / NO terminals and should have been between the COM / NC terminals on them.
Never understood why the limits would prevent the axes from moving but it solved the problem.
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https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gzpeTme6nORUp6b0pNeDNUREk?usp=sharing
Two close up pictures added.
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Hi,
kool, shouldn't ne any problem to drive those puppies.
Craig
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That is great news!
Sorry for the noob question, already got that great list about the controller brands but I would like to know;
So lets say I want to use these drivers/motors that are on my current CNC and control them with a new controller. What specific hardware/accessories are required when I'm choosing what electronics to buy? For example on CNCdrive their USB and Ethernet controllers have very lengthy pin connectors, and yet my drivers only have 4 wires leaving them to connect to my current controller.
BOB have been mentioned as well, are these extensions of controllers?
Thanks in advance,
Joe P.
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To my opinion getting a new BOB and / or Drives should be your last resort because your electronics have plugs instead of single wires and unless you are very familiar with electronics you are asking for a new headache. In addition fitting the new electronics inside the box may be impossible
I would suggest to disconnect all limits / drives except one drive and give it a try. If no success try to see if you get the right volts at the drive and also verify that all DIP switches are set properly. Do you have an English manual with your cnc? If not, perhaps you can Google the part numbers and you might get lucky.
Also noticed that your drives have a blank plug on the Enable terminals of each driver and perhaps this plug is a jumper. Try to remove it and see the results
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Hi Nicolas,
the reason the OP is looking to replace the controller/BoB is that the Chinese piece of junk dosen't
work. Trying to get useful support...its not like they're in another country...more like another planet!
Have a look at the pics...any amount enuf room for a different board. If OP were to look at PMDX 414 or416
or if he wants potential expansion the 424...the terminals are all screw type...easy. Either powered by USB
or onboard 230V supply..easy. The controller and Bob are built in...easy. PMDX english speaking backup...best
in the business...easy.
Yes OP will have to rewire a bit, so what, welcome to DIY CNC. May yet be a hurdle or two to manage spindle
speed control depending on control requirements.
Craig
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Sorry for late reply guys.
I'm fine with electrical, I'm a young controls engineer here, as long as their is documentation on the PMDX I will be fine.
so the PMDX is the controller and BOB in one?
Thanks,
Joe P.
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You are right Craig, there is no support from Chinese products and I would not trust their electronics to control my cnc however last year I did buy from them a water cooled spindle and so far so good. The price difference was so big that I had to take my chance.
Joe P sound capable to do this work and it’s the right way to go. Nonetheless it is a good chunk of work to replace his electronics and he will have lots of config problems to iron out but at the end he will have a reliable system
PMDX also includes the BOB and you are more knowledgeable to advice which one to get because they have quite a few models. Somehow I though Warp9 is more simple?
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Hi,
rewiring is not trivial but certainly doable and OP well able to handle it.
The PMDX products have buffered and filtered and/or optoisolated IO, screw terminals and on board supply. All in all PMDX have taken a
great deal of care to design and build devices which are immediately practical and easy to use.
The SmoothSteppers from Warp9 require a BoB. So you have two boards, the motion controller AND a BoB.
The USB connected version can derive power from the PC whereas the Ethernet connected one requires a separate 5V supply. Of course to achieve
galvanaic isolation a separate supply is a must. The BoB of your choice is what determines how the IO is handled which lends flexibility
but still requires another board and a sometimes power supply as well. Both SmoothSteppers have 3 'ports' worth of IO which means room
for considerable expansion. As can be seen the SmothSteppers are not quite as convenient as PMDX boards but are flexible and have room
for expansion.
For OP who is capable of rewiring, providing power supplies and so on then either will work fine. Both companies enjoy industry leading
reputation for backup and support.
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Hi,
one thing which I have not really addressed in my recommendations to you regards external controllers to replace the existing one
is spindle speed control.
The real question is what spindle control you actually need. Your pics show a VFD and guess that you have a high speed spindle, maybe
24,000 rpm and 2kW output or thereabouts. Further I assume you will be doing routing with this machine. If you want to do metal milling,
and by metal I mean steel or tougher, then not only does the spindle lack the torque but the machine lacks the rigidity to contain the
cutting forces ie not suitable for it.
When I built my mill, and it is a mill, very small but rigid for metal cutting I bought a high speed spindle, 24,000 rpm 750W which I thought
would be plenty. I have used it extensively for routing, circuit boards in particular, but as a metal cutting spindle it sucks! It just doesn't have
the torque to spin reasonable diameter tools at modest speeds. So for my spindle I find that when I use it I just set it to max rpm and leave it,
after all the ONLY use it gets is routing with micro-endmills or engraving bits. Niether do I require clockwise/counter clockwise direction control,
do you have any LH cutting tools or drills or whatever? All I require is on/off.
I, like many other spent a lot of time shagging around trying to get spindle control just so, accurate speed and direction, accel and deccel etc.
In the event I was wasting my time, with the spindle I have and the work I do with it all I require is On/Off. If I want to spin a particular tool
more slowly I can manually adjust it and 99 times out of 100 leave it like that for the entire job.
My recommendation is, at least to start with, is just on/off control, the PMDX 416 for instance has a relay on board for just this purpose.
I have recently built a spindle for my mill, 3500 rpm, 1.8kW and 6.5Nm, for milling steel. Works a treat but find that I don't actually need much speed
control with it either. Unless I'm putting a large diameter facing tool or flycutter or similar I usually set it at max speed and leave it. Again without having
LH tools or drills not worried about direction control either. This spindle motor is an AC servo so I have quite a rich selection of speed control including
indexing for threading available by virtue of the servo drive but in actual use don't need any of them.
Until you get plenty of hours of actual use under your belt don't go overboard in terms of time of expense with spindle control. You may find as I did that
you don't really need all that refinement or what you really need is something entirely different.
Craig
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You all are so helpful! I am considering PMDX at the moment for time saving.
Since this is not a personal project and one that was given to me at work, I really do not know the detailed applications they wish to use it for. They just said they wanted it for engraving on a few jobs. I am going to find out from them what materials they want to engrave and get back to you.
Also, we got an email from the seller of it who says they will be sending a zip file of "things they forgot to send in the shipment." Boss wants to wait and try that before we buy anything else.
Thank you guys again for all the great information, I appreciate it!
Joe P.
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Ok, Big update.
We finally got an email from the seller with the manual and all the necessary files. The machine is now moving, however as expected, more problems. For now I'm stuck with this controller until my boss decides to give up on it and make the transition.
Our probe does not work. Manual says "Every time before applying the tool setting gauge, you should first touch the surface of the tool setting gauge through the clamp on the red cable, to check whether the indicator light on the tool setting interface is turned to red."
We plug in the probe, we clamp the bit, and we touch the probe with the bit. No light of any kind on the interface. It seems by the manual that the actual offset number should turn red to indicate.
Pics below. Manual is also in there. Page 2-5 is where I am having trouble.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6gzpeTme6nONWZIdEhhSndqbUk?usp=sharing
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Hi,
on the Input Signals page you have Estop port=1 pin=3 and Probe port=1 pin=4. That doesn't sound right to me.
When you manually trigger either input by taking input voltage high (or low) do the diagnostic LEDs operate? With these port
and pin numbers I suspect not.
Craig
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Craig,
When you say diagnostic LED's, are you talking about something on the Mach 3 interface? I was given a new interface with my package so I am not sure if I still have those.
Joe P.
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Hi,
the Diagnostics tab page of Mach3.
Craig