Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: captainleeward on December 06, 2016, 07:54:07 PM
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Hello this my first post please help my hair is nearly gone.
No communication between computer and controller box.
win xp, installed mach3 and configured it. says driver installed correct.
pt port numbers are the same
hobby cnc control board with power supply motors hum a little
nothing on the diagnostic board after hooked up. no safety switch readings.
how can i verify if the computer is communicating with the control box?
Any suggestions....??
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Hi captainleeward,
hair is an overated accessory for the vain!
I assume that you are trying to use a parallel port, PP in the jargon?
If that's the case don't worry about hooking up the machine just yet, the probability of it working out of the box is just about nill.
Just to make sure, if you are using PP then your operating system (OS) must be 32bit, Windows 7 or earlier, with XP/SP3 the common standard.
In the Mach3 folder, usually c:\Mach3, is a program DriverTest.exe Run it and see what happens. It should open a window and tell you it's taking over in 3,2,1...
seconds. Then it will give you some useful info about itself and how well your PC might run the PP. If it doesn't do this you've got trouble.
When you installed the driver did you shutdown and restart? If you didn't that's what's wrong. The driver gets screwy if you don't.
There is a document on the Artsoft website:
Mach3 CNC Controller Software Installation and Configuration
It covers this situation well, I know because I did exactly the same thing back when I had hair!
You'll have to use the Device Manager to dig the old driver out by the roots and start again.
Then when you run the DriverTest it will install a fresh copy, remember to shut down and the re start and you should start getting results.
While setting up and getting used to Mach3 its a good idea to make a shortcut for DriverTest and put it on the desktop.
Let us know how you get on.
Craig
BTW--- I always give the inside boat buoy-room, its no good arguing later when you've got two crunched boats.
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Hello Craig, and fair weather to you-------yes I crashed the program in the beginning like hitting a shoal in a storm. anyway I am on the hunt for the answers... 8:00 thusrsday will return by 12:00 or earlier today. I gluing my hair back on now. thank you kind sir....
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Hello Craig, here's the info so far...
1. Windows XP service pack 3 32 bit
2. Uses Printer Port LPT-1 for driver-0378
3. Driver is windows driver according to device manager?
4. Mach3 driver compatibility test-system under mach3 control and system excellent. mach3 prgm says driver successfully installed.
I have a program called sign lab which controls a cnc vinyl cutter machine for making signs this software uses the LPT-1 port to communicate with the vinyl cutter.
If I have to change drivers in Ltp-1 will that effect my connection to the vinyl cutter and if so do I need another 25 pin connection? or can they be shared? the ink printer and vinyl cutter share the same port.
Thanks for your support...standing by....you can see the cnc machine in the photo section (captainleeward)
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Hi captainleeward,
if I remember correctly when the Mach PP driver is installed it shows in the device manager as a piece of hardware, named
something like 'M3 Pulse Engine' or 'Pulser' or....I have recently upgraded to Mach4 so no longer have a machine with a PP installed.
As I discovered when taking up this hobby (read obsession) that the pulse engine is a very trick piece of code. It has been described
'a bit like a virus', in order to do its job it has to live along side the Windows kernel and in fact shoulders Windows aside when running.
Anything which disturbs it like Windows getting bolshie and the pulse stream you are relying on to drive your motors falters or outright
fails. Even if it comes online again only a few milliseconds later its too late, your motors have stalled and often the job ruined.
The advice I was given, and unlike me to actually follow, is remove and or disable everything in your PC that does not have to be there
to run your machine. A long time CNCer described it 'its is no longer a PC but a machine controller that happens to use Windows'.
I don't know whether your existing sign machine will still work once the Mach driver is installed, actually controlling the pins of the port
is small beer when compared to running an interrupt driven timer as the pulse engine does. Its possible that if Mach is not running some
other application, your sign making program for instance, will run and be able to control the port. Given what I said in the previous
paragraph I wouldn't even try, a Mach3 PC is a machine controller and should do NOTHING else.
From what you've described the pulse engine is running so the next step is to see whether it can drive the parallel port pins. I you have an
oscilloscope and a steady hand to probe it then that's the way to go. Next best bet is to hook up your breakout board, BOB in the jargon.
Many of them have LEDs on the outputs so you can see at a glance if a particular output is changing. Do you have any documentation
on the BOB and/or pics?
In order to observe any outputs the BOB has to be enabled, in lots of cases by a charge pump, really need to know if your board is enabled that
way.
Craig
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Hello Craig,
Yes the Mach3 driver is located in the keyboard section of the device manager and says its working.
The BOB is a kit which i built it has no leds ect on the board it is a EZ 3 AXIS Hobby cnc BOB.
3 axis ez chopper driver board kit. Specifications
3 axis unipolar chopper control,individual or simultaneous control of 2/4
phase stepper motors.
accepts 5,6,or 8 wire motors 36 volts volts dc maxium voltage 3.0 amps
max per phase. 1/1,1/2,1/4,1/81/16th step micro stepping. step and direction control.
connections for home and limit switches with 10 k pull up resistor.
does this help?
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I have decided to buy a used xp sp3 from a guy here in town so as not to get conflicting problems with my other cnc cutter.
I will post here when I am up and running.... thanks see ya in a day or so.
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Hello Craig, happy holidays to you and yours....
set up the dell computer I just bought, mach3 is loaded just fine hooked it up to the BOB no action tried motor tuning nothing ran roadrunner gecode pgm motors started making squealing noises in order of the program different moves motors still not running, stopped at that point. any suggestions? Cap.
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Hi captainleeward,
the fact that its starting to makes noises is a good sign. I suspect your motor tuning is out of whack somehow.
Rather than trying to run a file concentrate on issuing manual commands. If you don't know G-code its time to learn!
Just to make sure on the Config/Select Native Units page confirm that they are set to your machine. Note that these are the units
you will do the calculations with to set the motors and will be the means of Mach3 doing its internal stuff. Once you set it don't
change it. If you want to run a job in mm for instance use G21 and when you finish use G20 to go back to inches if that's whats
comfortable to you.
I assume you've assigned ports and pins otherwise nothing would happen. Go to the motor tuning page, what values have you set?
My native units are mm and my steppers/ballscrews advance 1um per pulse or 1000 pulses are required to move 1mm. Ergo I've set
my Steps Per at 1000. What you set there will depend largely on the microstepping you select and the leadscrews you've got.
Don't go overboard with microstepping, while it sounds great 'my machine can make one step of a millionth of an inch' its horse s...t!
The machine accuracy is largely determined by its leadscrews, the quality of it ways and its rigidity, no amount of fiddling with a computer
will change that. Microstepping does make for smooth running tho. What does the manufacturer recommend?
If your native units are mm then Steps Per are around the 1000-2000, if inches 8000 or more.
The next thing to set is the speed, start slow and as you get used to things speed it up. Steppers stall if you try to go too fast, they just make
a squealing sound, you get used to listening for it. While not ideal it doesn't really do any harm either. My machine has planetary gear drives
and is quite slow, its set at 1200 mm/min or 60 inch. I don't imagine your machine has reducers so start at say 100 in/min or 2500 mm/min.
The next one is the acceleration, Motors can't go to max speed in an instant, they will stall EVERY time you try. Start really really slow until
you find the limits. A good starting point is 10% of your max speed. Once you've set them make sure you save them. Just experiment with on one
axis to start with, say X, once you've got the hang of it the rest will be easy.
On the MDI page on the input line enter G0 X4 <enter>. With any sort of luck the table will take off to the right 4 inches. Use G0 X100 if in mm.
A G0 X0 should take it back to where you started. G0 means 'go as fast as you can' or rapid traverse in the jargon. Its unlikely you'll want to cut
at that speed, for cutting use G1 F********* where ********* is the speed (upto the max) you want to go, the feed rate.
Try it out and let me know how you get on.
Craig
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Hello Craig, I'M using inches.Thanks for the 8000 steps for minutes as the videos only show steps in MM I just realized that the pots on the bob were turned down as not to over ramp at start up.
I have a 1/2 inch number 1 lead screw on all axis.The actual cutting area is 18"x and y is 28". First thing I have to recheck the wiring on the limit switches today then I will proceed.
you can see MY machine on homemadetools.net click the builders word and look for captainleeward # 1 click on that to see my machine. My machine is home built from scratch with guilty materials. Thank you sooo much good stuff will give you up date soon. Ward.
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Hi captainleeward,
you have been busy! I recall the day I got my own homemade mill working, I was elated and you will be to. The degree of elation is proportional
to the effort spent building your machine so yours will be phenomenal. May pay to alert the authorities beforehand, hoax earthquake reports
are viewed dimly! A lot of users on this forum buy their machines ready made from China. They seem to report more frustration than elation.
From the pics its clear you don't use any pulleys or reduction between your steppers and the lead screws. The Steps Per calculation is easy. There is
a calibration utility in Mach3 but unless you have to use it don't bother.
If you set the microstepping to 1/8 you should be about right. Two phase steppers advance 1.8 degrees per full step or 1.8/8 degrees per microstep
at 1/8 setting. Your table will advance (1.8/8/360) *0.5 ie 0.3125 thou per microstep or taking the reciprocal 3200 microsteps per inch. If you set to
1/16 microstepping 6400 microsteps per inch. Easy!
Stepper motors are very grunty for their size at low speeds, upto about 100 rpm but lose torque thereafter down to about 5% of rated torque
at 1000 rpm. Multiphase (3 and 5) steppers do better but the same trend applies. Unless you are prepared for repeated stalls set your max speed to
be such that the steppers are doing 300-500 rpm. At 300 rpm(conservative) then 300*0.5 ie 150 inch per min.
Again as a conservative starting point set you acceleration to 15 inch/sec/sec.
What I did not see in your pics was an Estop button, it is a must have!. Plenty of suppliers will supply you with lockable and latching Estop
switches in standard colours for $$$. Any push-to-break switch will work tho. You can set it up to use push-to-make but if you have a wiring
fault you wont know until you REALLY need it. Not recommended. Many safety conscious users arrange it that an Estop will kill all electrical
power to the motors and spindle rather than relying on Mach3 to stop on command. I personally have not bothered to do so and have had
a couple of times where I regretted that choice but none the less a working Estop is a must especially when starting out and setting up as you
are.
Work on one axis at a time. Use manual G0 commands or use the jogging keys to move backwards and forwards while tuning you motors. If you
haven't found it yet there in an enable jogging/disable jogging button on various Mach3 screens. On the MDI screen hit <tab> to see the flyout
with the jog commands and modes. Have fun!
Craig
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Hello Craig, well the diagnostics screen is now showing some action per switches e stop but i see i need to do some retracing of the wiring.
Put in the data as you described. still no manual control on the keyboard. The problem lies in one of three areas 1) motors cables 2) BOB has some circuit board soldier problems.
3) Mach3 needs some tweaking. I bumped up those pots on the BOB nothing changed except the motors now get worm to the touch which is good.
well see ya next week if you can spare the time by the way I have been to Australia, Sydney and have over the years talked to many folks in Australia and New Zealand on my Ham radio on 10 meters well cheers for now . :O) e-stop button is on top of BOB.
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Hi captainleeward,
sounds like you've got things under control and have a logical plan to follow, you'll do fine.
I mostly experiment VHF/UHF/SHF but ZL3UII here.
Craig
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Hi Craig, KF6PJW is my call sign on SSB 470 10 meters when the conditions are right. not so good this year. Kilo foxtrot six papa Juliet whisky.
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Hi Craig.
Well I spent all morning retracing my cables with an ohm meter all are in the right place and working no grounding issues.
so the mach3 running banner says limit switch tripped, I checked each one of those and they all worked on my meter? normally closed.
On the diagnostics menu under input signals current state I have input 2 m2 3 yellow boxes 3 across-m3 3 yellow boxes 3 across what do these mean good or ad?
the third limit switch shows a green box when i push it.
the e-stop switch is working fine. Still no motor turning. Ward...:O)
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Hi captainleeward,
would in the first instance disable ALL the limit and homes switches. You are trying to get too many things going at once. it just produces
confusion.
On the Config/Ports and Pins/Inputs page disable everything except the Estop. Once you have thoroughly tested the Estop then get your motors to
work, one axis at a time using MDI and or jogging. This is where a working Esop is a must.
Once you've got your motors running then decide how you wish to wire your home and limits.
Some people try to combine all of them and do so quite successfully. I prefer having a dedicated home switch for each axis and just one limit circuit.
The limits are wired in series, any one switch opens and the machine stops. Obviously the machine can't tell which switch but unless you've gone blind
you can. The downside of that arrangement is that you need 9 switches. The three home switches I bought best quality units so that they are repeatable.
The other 6 can be cheapies. For instance my X home switch operates about 3mm from the end of travel with the table to the extreme right and the limit
switch operates just beyond that.
Craig
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Hello Craig, Yea I am having little success with limit switches, I will go your route tomorrow.
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Hello Craig, Happy holidays.............
removed all wiring to the limit switches. left e-stop ground and e-stop wire on the BOB.
ports and pins removed all limit entry's all that is left is the e-stop.
enabled x axis and step pin 2,dir pin3 (per cnc hobby manual for the BOB) (step port #1,dir port #1) were already this way in the program.
E-Stop is working properly.
key board left and right keys show number movement on the DRO a small amount but motors only make a clunk noise and the shafts do not move
but the computer is trying to get the motors to work. it feels like the motor brakes are on and can not move.
when I run the road runner program still some clunks but no motor movement. I have checked the wiring from the motors to BOB it is correct.
what do you suggest next? Ward.
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An added note: I did go to tuning motors menu and fiddled with the sliders no help. Before you said to put the jumpers to 1/8 it is now set a 1/2. 1/2 this is what the manual says?
but the manual does not know my set up either. should I put them there to 1/8? would this change have the effect we want? Ward.
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Hi captainleeward,
doesn't matter hugely, either should work. At 1/2 step means 400 pulses per rev with 1/4 inch pitch screws means your smallest step will be 0.625 thou.
Fairly coarse. At 1/8 step 0.15625 thou, I think probably better. Also less likely to get resonance problems at 1/8.
Just set one and get that sucker working! All the fiddling around with other settings is stopping you making progress. Just one motor, doesn't even have to be
coupled to the screw, just get it running! Once you've worked out what you need to get one going the rest will be much easier.
Some screenshots of yours settings and some info on your BOB/drivers would help.
Craig
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Hi Craig, google this address to see my BOB set up. HobbyCNC " EZ Board COMBO Kit" hobbycnc.com I added a 24 volt 15 amp power supply to run the board, cooling fan fuses ect.
where can I email my jpeg photos to you?. tried on this forum but no go. if you look on the Homemade tools .net web site in my projects folder you will find the BOB box with plenty of pictures.
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Hi captainleeward,
little or nothing to configure on the BOB/driver. Must assume the manufacturer knows what he is doing. I notice in the pics that the drivers are
Unipolar. Did you get your steppers from the same company? Did they give you a wiring diagram for the motor-to-driver?
Assuming the BOB/driver/motor is wired per spec the only other area that can be at fault is your settings in Mach3. Did hobbycnc provide any details
about pin outs, step/dir vs CCW/CW?.
As this board is hard wired the PP pin outs will have to conform with the BOB pins. Can you scan it?
Craig
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here is the BOB.
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Please excuse me for asking a really basic question but are you using unipolar stepper motors and have you checked that are they connected correctly ?
Tweakie.
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Hello Tweakie, I don't know if they are unipolar or not the motors have 8 wires coming from them 1A 2a gnd gnd gnd gnd 2a 1A
Yes the BOB is marked clearly where these go to, two of the grounds are soiderd together on each side. there are 6 terminals for the motor hook up. see j peg above.
The steppers motors came with the kit BOB, the 25 pin cable came with the kit to. Yes I have checked the wiring twice and believe it to be correct but I will recheck it Saturday and verify it..Ward
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As you purchased the steppers and controller from the same source and the wires are identified then I am sure you have the wiring correct (sorry but I just had to ask the question).
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie,
Please feel free to jump in anytime with a suggestion that might set the motors free...:O)
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Still on about the steppers but I notice that your pdf manual shows two different wire color configurations for the 8 wire motors. It's an off-chance but it may be worth checking (with a multimeter) the resistance of the stepper motor windings just to confirm that you have the correct center taps for the COM connections to the controller.
Tweakie.
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Hello Tweakie, Happy holidays.....
Yes I will check that on Monday. Thanks for the idea.
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Hello Fellas,
So I did a continuity check to the motor wiring:
A to third pin ground positive.
a to third pin ground positive.
B to forth pin ground positive.
b to forth pin ground positive.
forth and third pins nagative.
A to a negative.
B to b negative.
no ground from the 3 and 4 ground terminals to motor chassis.
All motors chassis are grounded to each other via the double sided aluminum plywood I used
for the project.
checked all wire cable connections from motor wire to the BOB. all ok.
Ward.
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Steppers look OK so it's back to the drawing board. :-\
Tweakie.
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This problem has to be something so simple (and basic) that it is staring us in the face.
Have you tested the LPT cable with a multimeter (that pin1 is connected to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2 and so on) ?
Can you attach your <your profile> .xml file (from your Mach3 folder). You need to copy the file then rename the copy to captainleeward.xml before attaching.
Tweakie.
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Hi captainleewared,
got me stumped, given that all motors etc from the same supplier and presumably marked correctly....
The only way I can think of to check the BOB/driver combo is to disconnect the PP cable and feed pulses into
the step pin on each motor. Do you have a signal generator that can produce a squarewave at a few hundred Hz?
Some scopes have a 5V 1kHz squarewave for probe calibration, could at a pinch use that. Whatever you try don't feed the input
pins more than 5V. A 555 timer (output limited to 5V) would work to.
Craig
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Hello Craig, I don't have those instruments nor know how to use them. now checking the cable pp and getting xml file. Ward. will have for you by 10:00 am.
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Hello Fellas, checked the 25 pin connector cable all pin match their respective numbers.
attached is the xml file. Ward.
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Hello Fellas, from the motor tuning page.
steps per = 8000
velocity = 101.64
acceralation =4 g s 0.0103607
step pulse = 0 dir pulse=0 Ward.
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Pleased to hear the LPT cable is OK - that's another possibility ruled out.
I don't know exactly what you attached (WinRar ?) but it was not your .xml file. The file is in your Mach3 folder named <your profile> .xml - could you perhaps try again ?
Tweakie.
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Hi captainleeward,
try bumping up the step and direction pulse widths, 5us if you can't make them longer. Maybe the controller misses very short pulses.
Craig
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Hi Tweakie, this XML file opens in internet explorer.
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Hi captainleeward,
just had another thought, can you beg, borrow, steal, or worse buy another BOB, just a plain one with no built in drivers but one with LEDs
on the outputs? It would confirm whether M3/PP is producing pulses.
At the moment you can't tell. It is possible to probe the PP with a multimeter but one slip with a probe and you risk blowing the TTL inside
the PP. I try to avoid probing the PP whether with multimeter or oscilloscope unless I have insulated contacts that fit perfectly, replacing
chips on a PC mother board is a hit and miss proposition at best!
Craig
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Hi Craig,Tweakie
made those changes 5 but no change. Mach3 shows dro working when left and right buttons pushed. no motor movement.
I think now is the time to take the BOB out and recheck all sodier joints and components. I will do that the rest of the day If I replace it to no avail, I will buy another one.
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Looking at you .xml file…
The Step & Direction pin allocations in Motor Outputs do not match the .pdf document (manual) you have attached in post #22.
If you are using Estop then you need to allocate a Port# in Input Signals.
In Motor Tuning I suggest you change the Step Pulse and Dir. Pulse to 2uS.
Perhaps also try changing the Step Low Active State in Motor Outputs (from cross to tick) and see if that makes any difference.
Tweakie.
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Hello Tweakie,
The Step & Direction pin allocations in Motor Outputs do not match the .pdf document (manual) you have attached in post #22.
Not sure what you want me to do here I have them set as per the manual 2/3 4/5 6/7 ..Ward
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Unless something has gone screwy my end the .xml file you posted shows...
X Step 2
X Dir 6
Y Step 3
Y Dir 7
Z Step 4
Z Dir 8
Tweakie.
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Hello Tweakie, Will cherck that ASAP. Thanks Ward.
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I need a few days to investigate this matter,, Ward.
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Fellas, I have sent the BOB back to the seller to have it checked out before continuing this fix so please bare with me for a week or so Thanks you guys....:O) Ward