Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: rcaffin on October 26, 2016, 05:14:15 AM
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Hi all
I was playing around with some routines for touch probes and got myself into a tangle over the different coordinate spaces in Mach3. Now, I know the Mach3Mill manual says you should understand how the coordinate spaces work before just using the screen DROS to zero things - but how many do? Searching on this web site I was unable to find a simple and explicit guide to the coordinate spaces.
So in order to understand what I was doing, I sat down and wrote a full Guide to Machine Coords, User Coords, Workspaces, Offsets and everything. I learnt a lot! (Best way to learn something is to try to teach it.)
I have attached V1 of this Guide as a PDF. Please read and send feedback. In due course, if it seems to be of use, it may end up in the Members Docs folder.
Cheers
Roger
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Excellent work Roger, that certainly does deserve a place in our Members Documents section.
Tweakie.
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Roger,
Thanks for posting and hope your are having fun doing the guide.
I will have some comments if you wish to incorporate them into your document.
RICH
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Hi Rich
Comments and feedback eagerly sought, please.
More hidden parameters also sought.
Cheers
Roger
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unable to find a simple and explicit guide to the coordinate spaces.
That is very true. There are "books" written on the subject.Every software manufacturer
has numerous manuals covering the material in different ways and presentation. Mach manuals
cover a lot of ground and forum replies usualy address a particular user problem. Manuals are usualy
written to inform the user about the software from a setup point of view and include the specifics of their commands / software. They are not meant to teach someone how to setup, how to code, and leaveS a "void" on the basis for it all. Frankly it's a difficult subject to "concisely" write about. Chapter 7 in the manual
was an try at it and leaves that void. The Mach Mill Manual took over 6 months to write.
how the coordinate spaces work before just using the screen DROS to zero things - but how many do?
Not most users and that is why you are constantly seeing the same variations on a theme for problems.
We have all been there! People don't read any more.....plug and play world, etc, etc.
BUT
Consider basics and terminology not understood, then different levels of automation and it can get
very confusing in short order.
More hidden parameters
Notice you have some of them noted.
Parameters ( Variables......) that is a subject in itself and would make for an interesting
write up.
You are smart to limit your write up to the Mill.
I use a modified screen set for the Lathe and started writing a user quide for it which over time
has become a manual. It has a section which concisely addresses Coordinate systems and will rewrite
/ modify for the Mill. You might consider using it.
For now, :)
RICH
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Nice guide.
I'd suggest a bit more explanation on absolute distance mode, maybe add the word "relative" before the word positions at the start of the second line and maybe an example of an absolute move with the tool at x0y50, and a move of g0y100 for both absolute and incremental, if you do an update on the guide in the future. (From a relatively new cnc non native user / enthusiast)
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Hi Rich
You are smart to limit your write up to the Mill.
:-)
I did consider the lathe as well, but didn't go there for two reasons. Lathe use has it's own traps for the unwary, so I thought it would better to leave that for a separate doc. And I had the hope that understanding how it all works on a mill might make the lathe a little easier to understand anyhow.
I can't find your user guide for your screen set. I think I must be looking in the wrong places. Help please?
Cheers
Roger
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Hi Robert
A bit more explanation for absolute and incremental modes - I see what you mean. Working on it. Thanks.
Cheers
Roger
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I can't find your user guide for your screen set. I think I must be looking in the wrong places. Help please?
You won't find it because I deleted the thread. One of these days it will get posted. ;D
I was just doing some work on the mill stuff you ya. Rest up........ ;)
RICH
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Roger,
Comments in attached.
RICH
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Hi Rich
Comments appreciated, BUT - I don't recognise the first few pages. Are they a more recent version of the MachMill manual? Maybe I have missed out on something? URL?
Cheers
Roger
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Are they a more recent version of the MachMill manual?
NO
Are they a more recent version of the MachMill manual?
No, the Mill Manual was written years ago and is as it is.
You shouldn't recognize them since they are written by me and your free to include them in your quide.
Like I said, they would be a concise writeup covering basic's which you could build upon.
RICH
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Hi Rich
OK, and thanks.
The difference is that your version is written from the g-code point of view (which is perfectly valid of course), while mine is written from the 'spaces' pov. Hum ... A rather neat trick mght be to include BOTH. Look at the matter from both sides as it were. That could be good, if you are happy with that? I will acknowledge of course.
Cheers
Roger
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Hi Rich
You wouldn't happen to have the sources for the pics you used by any chance? I am thinking of including your write-up as a Part 2 in the doc: 'the view from the g-code side' as it were.
I would like to attribute that part to you properly. Do I just use 'Rich', or can I use a real name?
Cheers
Roger
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Hi Rich
I have been trying to integrate the two versions, but it is difficult. I may or may not succeed. I hope you don't mind if I fail. But a couple of the diagrams might be useful if you want to make them available.
Cheers
Roger
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is written from the g-code point of view
Because g code is "basic" to any controller.
This needs to be added to what I wrote:
All contollers have commands to control a machine and although
they are rather generic each controller has dilects of G code and even some propriatary ones. The following are basic Mach3 G codes / commands related to Work Offsets.
I tried to capture what is shown in hundreds of pages of the major manufacturing manuals and books.
trying to integrate the two versions, but it is difficult
Just what where does one find coordinate "space" as I don't remember ever seeing that in all the cnc material I studied. Coordinates / planes/ etc. are all mathematical based.Sorry i am just having problems with the "space" terminology......that's why your having trouble integrating maybe.
Keep working at it...it's your write up. ;D
You wouldn't happen to have the sources for the pics you used by any chance
I drew them myself in cad to pictorialy show what was written.
including your write-up as a Part 2 in the doc: 'the view from the g-code side' as it were.
Put it where you want ( not there my friend :D) ..........it's your write up. RICH is fine.
a couple of the diagrams might be useful if you want to make them available.
Diagrams for what? Can you be more specific?
RICH
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Hi Rich
Ah - OK, I get you. Yes, I am coming at it from the maths PoV for sure. My background.
With that in mind ... I will revisit.
Diagrams I can do.
Cheers
Roger
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My thanks to Rich and Robert.
An updated version is attached.
Cheers
Roger
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Something you may want to use / modify for your next update.
Hopefully captured your intent.
I would strongly suggest you genericaly explain the concept.
Consider:
- Default setup on startup can change any description.
So define you starting basis of the write up so other stuff
satisfies some basis, if you don't a reader may constantly
struggle to relate. OR start from manual to some level of setup
automation.
- You have workspace...is there a fixture space?
Workpace can be inclusive of fixtures, but if multiple fixtures
are used they could be individual workspaces ie; G54 on startup, the
G5x for others, in fact G54 variables can be "0".
Now G5x is global and G52 is local. G52 is relative to the CURRENT
G5? workspace offset. It is usualy used as a temporary controlled
point offset in programming. SO be carefull in examples.
G5x WORK offsets replaced the legacy code of G92, but as you see in
diagnostics there is only a G92 offset.
- BTW, I think I read were MAch parameters were based one of Fanuc's
controller.
Just some thoughts,
RICH
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Hi Rich
Thanks. Appreciate feedback. Still working on it.
Cheers
Roger
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Ok, latest update. It keeps growing.
Cheers
Roger
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Another update.
I have just spent the morning chasing strange bugs in a program, only to find out that the bugs were in Mach. The Display Driver does NOT handle G52 X0 Y0 properly. To be honest, I think I found this out ages ago, with help from others including Terry.
Anyhow, I have documented this. See attached. Comments welcome as ever.
Cheers
Roger
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Tweakie has corrected my misunderstanding of the G91.1 instruction. I have updated the PDF yet again. My thanks to Tweakie and Ger21 for help here.
I will say that i think the Mach3 manual is a shade obscure on this subject - or just plain wrong in one place.
Cheers
Roger
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Another update, to Version 11.
Several small clarifications plus a full page on 'what to do when using your rotary axis as both a lathe and an RT'.
The doc folder will be updated soon I hope.
Cheers
Roger
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Hi Roger,
The Members Documents folder has now been updated.
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie
Thanks.
Cheers
Roger
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A further update:
file download: https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33595.0;attach=56759
Cheers