Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Jerrypower on September 23, 2016, 02:01:52 PM
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Hello,
I'm helping out a friend of mine to try to figure out what is wrong with his CNC machine.
It worked perfectly on a very old outdated machine and we decided that he should upgrade to a faster machine in which he could do some CAD work to then use the CNC.
But we ran in to a issue straight away. At the diagnostics page we can't see any reaction on the ports. And if i recall correctly then there should always be a signal on at least one port.
And when we press keys nothing happens in the diagnostics or with the motors.
Then i downloaded a program that let us send signals through the COM port and to the machine straight away. To start the spindle works perfectly but when I try to send a signal to make the motors move they just do a small jump (Not enough to move anything but they make a sound that they activate then stop right away)
We can see currents moving through the board (Measured up)
The pc is a windows 10 machine with a add on com port in a PCI slot.
The old pc were a windows XP with a integrated COM port.
Has anyone experienced anything like this before?
Do you have any idea on what it could be?
Do you have any suggestions or things we could try? (We are both new to CNC)
Do you need more information regarding this? Then please do tell and we will provide with anything you require to further help us out :)!
Looking forward for someone that could help us out.
/Jerry
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The jump is probably correct - you are sending a single pulse or just flipping the pin on or off - to move a stepper you need to send a series of on/off pulses at a minimum, the speed of which will determine the speed of the motor.
The spindle will work because that only needs a single on/off output.
Sounds like the port is talking to the machine but Mach is not seeing the port.
Check the devices page of windows and get the address for the parallel port, then check that the correct port is set in Mach setup. Not all pc's use the same address.
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Thank you Davek for the reply.
And that makes lots of sense actually!
Is there any way to externally check if it can move? (Some way to send signals at a specific pace just to see if the motors will move)
And yes i changed the port in the settings. And the port were a bit different then the other as it is a LTP (Or something like that)
And i believe it was something like 0D050.
Is there anything you could take a look at to check if it was me that failed somewhere?
I will happily provide you with any kind of screens you would require for this.
And yet again, thanks thus far :)!
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Yes but not easily, you can buy stepper pulsers or make one with a few components but the fact it jumps i think means it likely will work once the front end is sorted.
LPT port? ;)
Best thing i can suggest is to upload your XML file and a far more knowledgeable person will likely dive in :)
Make sure it's the XML file for the profile you are running ;)
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Alright, this is the XML file for the profile that he is using.
I will be more than willing to answer any questions regarding it.
I will be going to his place tomorrow and would love to try anything suggested to get things working!
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I can see the Estop is enabled and active low but has no port assigned?
Looks like pin10 port 1 is already in use.
In general config, "Use Watchdogs" is checked, no idea what it does but have read bad things about having it checked :)
Not much else i can see as long as the 0xd address really is the correct one for the parallel port.
Did you do a full install of Mach or just copy the folder over??
It really needs a proper install, the port test running and then you can dump the old folder on top.
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Ooh i didn't know about that dump the old folder on top part.
But i did install it and try to do the settings. (Bringing over the xml and license)
And I also tries only using the folder but nothing of those worked.
But i didn't dump the whole thing. And also now that i think about it it was installed before we added the new port hardware.
And in the first part you mentioned the Estop, what kind of issues could it provide in this case? So i know what to look for and change :D
(Now i at least have something to try so that is amazing :D!)
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Ah so you changed the port hardware after the install?
That can do things, try running the port speed test program.
The estop with port 0 set simply will do nothing, there is no port zero so its ignored, if it has an estop button it won't function, not in Mach any way.
I have dumped the whole folder on a few times, its pretty tolerant as far as software goes but does always need a full install first and testing.
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Yeah, I will re-install it.
And yes i changed the port to what windows say is the correct one.
If there are anything else i could try then please tell me :D
So i can go through as much as possible tomorrow!
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Can you confirm your setup again please?
Mach3 + windows 10 + parallel port
As far I was aware the problem is the parallel port, and the way windows 8 / 10 (64 bit operating system) deals with it is your problem, you need a motion controller now as your upgrade is above the requirements for parallel port usage
Mach3 requirements copied from the artsoft website
Software Requirements
Mach3 Minimum Recommended Requirements:
Requirements if using the parallel port for machine control:
Desktop PC (Laptops are not supported) with at least one parallel port
32-bit version of Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7 (64-bit versions will not work)
1Ghz CPU
512MB RAM
Non-integrated Video Card with 32MB RAM(Large G-code files, especially 3D files will require a video card with 512MB RAM or higher)
Requirements if using an external motion device for machine control:
An appropriate external motion controller (options can be found on the Plugins page)
Desktop or Laptop with Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8
1Ghz CPU
512MB RAM
Video Card with 32MB RAM(Large G-code files, especially 3D files will require a video card with 512MB RAM or higher)
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Yes that is correct,
it is that setup.
And now that you mention it i think it is a 64 bit . Do you think it might work if i re-install it into windows 10 32 bit?
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Hi,
don't think you can get Window10 in 32bit.
As far as I'm aware if you wish to use a parallel port then 32bit Windows7 or earlier FULLSTOP.
No exceptions or workarounds.
Craig
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Might be easier to throw in a UC100 and go USB instead or parallel?
Not too cheap but my one has been reliable so far.
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You can try, not sure if w 10 has a 32 bit version.
W10 has proved problematic for at least one motion controller manufacturer because of its knack of automatic updates which changes the security settings of the port but given that is to with Ethernet usage.
I'll state the obvious here, have you considered using a motion controller?
A motion controller will provide better signal timing (step consistency). Likewise it may be at least worthwhile considering improvements in cnc software as mach3 although it has been the standard for a long time has not been developed for about 1/3rd of its life.....
What type of cnc machine or process is it?
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As I'm no expert in this subject i got a picture to show what we are using
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Just to confirm what has already been said...
The parallel port cannot be used with Windows 10.
If you wish to use Win10 then you must use an external motion controller.
If you wish to use the parallel port then you must use Windows 7 (or earlier) 32 bit only.
Tweakie.
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Thanks for all the answers!!
Is there a easy way to go from win 10 to 7 or do I need to buy a new license for that?
Also if we would want a motion controller then where would you suggest to buy one?
Also what are the end result (which are the better one)?
~written from phone
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A uc100 has advantages., As do uc300usb / eth & 400eth
Note the uc300eth does not at this time have a mach3 driver, but it should do as all the others do.
Even if you are a mach3 stalwart, best to consider mach4 and others when laying out a load of cash
http://cncdrive.com/products.html, with webshop. There are local dealers across the world.
Even if you are a mach3 stalwart it is worthwhile at least considering everything at the time of expending money as mach3 is stagnant whilst mach4 (and others) may surpass mach3 in time.
Motion controllers can be a bit of a minefield, as some don't do everything that the parallel port does under mach3, and with mach4s development being slow and steady there can be issues with plugins when a new release lands.
Your cheapest option may be a second old pc with 32 bit windows 7 (or xp...as I run)... but don't loose sight that mach3 is stagnant and at some point a lack of old hardware and software may render it obsolete (but not for a while as w7 PCs can still be found)..... try to find a i386 with w nt + drivers if your software is only compatible with that version gives you an idea of the future at some point
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I think Rob has summed it up very well.
Something else to bear in mind is that some external motion controller will work with both Mach3 and Mach4 (using different plugins) but, as Rob has said, the Mach4 plugin software lags behind Mach4 development.
If it’s of any interest, my preference is a dedicated PC running WinXP (licensed copies can be obtained quite cheaply) and using Mach3 with the parallel port.
Tweakie.
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I too vote for the old pc with XP, turn off all the bells and whistles, use it just for Mach. I get mine from eBay about £30ea delivered.
I would have gone Mach4 but I have 3 machines running Mach3 so it didn't make sense at the time, I still don't think Mach4 is ready yet.
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Sorry for late response (Well OK very late)
But I couldn't fix the pci faster.
But now I re-installed windows as Windows 7 32-bit.
I also installed mach3 again and with it some drivers for the company port.
And now the PCI com port shows as COM1
And running the driver test it shows "system excellence" or something like that.
But the program still won't work.
And under Diagnostics it won't show any port activity whatever I do.
And yes I have changed the port adress.
Looking forward to future help!
Regards
/Jerry
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EDIT.
Would this solve my problems?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-USB-CONTROLLER-UC100-for-Mach3-CNC-Controller-USB-to-Parallel-/271300225770
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Hi,
not familiar with the UC100 myself but many hundreds or even thousands of CNCers use it,
so the answer is yes it will work.
If you go that why did you bother with Win7 32 bit? I presume you've done it so you can use
the parallel port and from your description you are making progress, why throw in the towel?
If the Driver test program is reporting good results and yet you have no output then the chances
are that Mach is not communicating with the port. There are a number of possibilities that you can
explore.
First, make sure port#1 is enabled on the 'ports and pins' page and note the port address, it pays to
use the exact hex notation, 0x378 for example. Now use the PCs control panel to view the hex
address or addresses that the PC has assigned to your port or ports. If your PC has a built in port
its address it very commonly 0x378 ie the same as the default in Machs ports and pins. If not
change it to the address your PC has assigned. Think you will have to restart Mach to have it
recognise the change.
What sort of BOB do you have, if it has LEDs on the outputs diagnosing setup problems is much
easier. Basically what you do now is manually toggle a BOB input and see if Machs LEDs on the
diagnostics page reflect your manual inputs. The Estop is commonly assigned to port 1 pin 10.
Can you cause Mach to Estop by operating pin 10 with a piece of wire to 0V (or 5V if idle=low)?
If you can then your well on the way.
Let us know how your getting on.
Craig
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The breakout board in the photo (reply #14) is a 5-axis CNC breakout board sold by StepperOnline. You can download the PDF manual from that site. The manual has the complete "Ports and Pins" settings, pin #'s, setting the Spindle 0-10v , Limit/Home switch setting pin #'s, and a very good pictorial schematic of all the connections.
It will work with a parallel port cable, or the UC100 USB / Parallel device.
I have assembled a 3-axis router package for a client, using the UC300 board (the big brother to the UC100), and followed the PDF manual. Everything works as described. There are some very specific Ports and Pin connections to get it all working correctly, so following the manual is advised.
You will need a 12 or 24 volt source for the 0-10v output for an inverter. It is a very compact, and simple board that works.