Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Ya-But on September 09, 2016, 04:23:47 PM

Title: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 09, 2016, 04:23:47 PM
Hello there,

I'm as new to CNC/Mach3 as a bouncing 8 pound…..    Setting up my new Zen Kit (assembly & wiring my me…a very meticulous sick-o).

In Diagnostics - checked each limit & home switch  Yellow lights where they should be.   Next, in "Ref All Home"   "Z" went fine.  "Y" went to Y-Limit ??- weird  and   "TILT" - flashing "Reset" and "Software Limits" showed in Status;  no nothing clears that. not even closing, rebooting.  Big brain-cramp.   

"Software Limits" ….is that, like - my Win-XP needs to go to the IR ????   A new purchase - has been rock solid all these years.

BTW, I've been working at the setup/controls of Mach3/Zen for a couple of days, testing, jogging, and a few minutes engraving in walnut and granadillo (hard as a rock)……wonderful quality - with the grain, across grain!!!

Thanks a lot,
 Ya-But
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 09, 2016, 07:43:20 PM
A couple of things:

First, can you provide more details?  Are you using shared home/limit switches or does each switch have a different pin assigned?  Which light(s) are active when you trigger a given switch?  How do you have your port and pins configured? etc.

Secondly, when the "Software Limits" is showing in the status line, it sounds like you may have the Soft Limits button active when you are trying to Ref All Home.  I believe you should have that turned off during a Ref All Home operation.

Try making sure Soft Limits is not active when you do a Ref All Home and let us know if that makes any difference.  I've not messed much with Soft Limits yet so I'm not sure if I'm off track here or not, but if that's not it we'll need to look more closely at your configuration.

Stephen "Highspeed" Kruse
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 09, 2016, 09:17:51 PM
HS1964    Thank you!
3 limits & EStop on pin 10 .     X-home  on 11, Y-home on 12, & Z-home on 13.   Trigger any limit:  yellow lights on M1++ & M1--  x M2 & M3  (6 yellow lights).   Ports & Pins:   All lines enabled from top down to include ZHome (9 green checks.    Pin numbers from top line down incl Zhome  10 10 11 10 10 12 10 10 13  …..& EStop enabled and pin 10.    Emulated column:  All red x.  

Until your reply, I didn't know about a "Soft Limits Button" ….took a minute to find it.  If it was on, Mach3 turned it on.

After a 2 hr break Mach3 was active - wasn't locked in Software Limits.  I unchecked Soft Limits & tried Ref All again.   Went to Z-Home, then went to Y limits (False eh?)  and triggered the switch and "Reset" & freeze.

I'd like my Ports and Pins settings looked at; often get a Reset and the message that there's an external influence or limit switch(s) triggered.  And to reverse Low Active settings.  Or Mach3 can fix it for you and un-checks a  bunch of low actives and it freezes again.

Thanks for your help, Stephen    
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 12, 2016, 11:37:40 AM
Not sure how that wiring would work out with the limits on the E-Stop.  My machine has a each axis with the limit switches (and no separate home switch) wired to the respective pin for each axis.  I've wired my switches in series on the NC contact with an active HIGH setting for safety (a broken wire or loose connection would also trigger a limit stop) and pins assigned as 11 11 11 12 12 12 13 13 13.  This way the machine knows which axis triggered the limit.  You could possibly use the setup you have since it sounds like you have a separate home switch, but that may be what's causing your Y limit to trigger a stop.

However, in a homing condition you'd expect it to trigger the home switch before reaching the limit so this should work out fine.  Have you checked the home switches on the diagnostic screen to make sure they are working as well?  I'd suspect that is where your final trouble might be.  I can look at your port and pins configuration if you post the XML file, but if it's mechanical this wouldn't be of much help.

Let me know what you see when you trigger the home switch for each axis on that diags page.

Stephen "Highspeed" Kruse
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 12, 2016, 02:01:50 PM
Sorry, my first line should have read:…"I trigger each of the 6 switches in turn and get proper yellows in Diag".   My wiring is per a ZEN diagram.  Have checked wiring very carefully - Hope problems are in the settings & buttons.

When I do the "Ref All Home" it does "Z" Home just fine, then heads to "Y" Limit at the front of machine - ya-but, that's a tilt, eh?  :-), and of course then the "Reset".    I want Home (the spindle) to be at left, front of the machine...therefore "Y" home switch located at rear?

XML?  Not sure about attachments - posting files here;  I'm only on net and email with my Macs.  Cheap way to keep Windows out of the hospital.  I tried to list my Ports & Pin settings on my Sep 09 -  06:43 post.

Perhaps you can help me easier when knowing my primary (at least for now) usage of CNC:  Engraving 36pt (½"), 2mm deep, 1 or 1.5mm bit….  letters - one or two words on .5"x5"x5" hardwood pieces.  Do I need Home switches?  But perhaps the current glitch won't allow any control of the machine?  
 
I've taken great care (started in mid July) in assembly/wiring, and the jogging/engraving of some doodles really has me enthused; so this is frustrating.  I appreciate your help!

Best,
 Ya-But    
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 12, 2016, 05:24:58 PM
So firstly, the .XML file is in your Mach3 directory.  It will have the name of the profile you use to start up Mach3.  To post the file, if you can get it to your Mac, then you can attach it if you click "Reply" (the "Quick Reply" will not work for this) and then "Additional Options" under the text block in that window.  The will be a button to "Choose File" there that you can then use to attach it to the message.

Secondly, I appreciate the clarification on your switch indications on the diags screen.  So on the Y axis, is the home switch positioned closer in than the limit switch?  Somehow, it seems like the home is getting ignored and the axis continues until the limit is hit.  You _could_ run your machine without referencing home but this is not recommended since it puts your machine in a state where it doesn't know the true Machine Coordinates and other functions rely on knowing the correlation between MC (Machine Coordinates) and WC (Workpiece Coordinates).  We'll get this figured out hopefully and you wouldn't need to worry about these issues.

If possible, could you somehow get a diagram of the switch layout on your machine posted as well as the .XML file?  That may help us figure it out better.

Highspeed
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 12, 2016, 11:54:22 PM
Limit switch wiring:  3 red wires from NO terminals to Pin 10 on TB6560 bob.  3 black wires from COM terminals to Gnd on bob.
Home switch wiring:  "X" Home: red wire from NO to Pin 11.  black wire from COM to Gnd.  Switch on top of left gantry.   "Y" Home:  red wire from NO to Pin 12.  Black wire from COM to Gnd.  Switch mounted on back rail of machine base.  "Z" Home:  red wire from NO to Pin 13.  Black wire from COM to Gnd. Switch mounted on top of rack holding spindle carriage.   Limit switches mounted on opposite extremities.  The "Y" axis switches are 14" apart….perpendicularly from front rail to back rail.

EStop button: Red wire to Pin 10.  Black wire to Gnd.  This could be incorrect. I've struggled with incomplete, reversed, contradictory, or non-existent wiring & settings info from ZEN from the beginning.

During the "Ref All Home", after completing the "Z", the "Y" stepper starts moving the table (from the middle of the machine) in the wrong direction towards the front rail which holds the "Y" Limit switch.  On contact it goes "Reset"; probably doing what it's supposed to do….only not during a Homing process?  :-)

HighSpeed, After we finish this "War & Peace" length manuscript, we can sit back with a cool beverage and share the publishing proceeds.    I really appreciate your help,

Ya-But
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 13, 2016, 01:29:59 PM
Ah, ok.   So what you have is a switch for each "upper" limit (x, y, z in the positive direction) all wired together and a dual home/limit switch on the lower end (axis moving in the negative direction) for a shared limit/home switch on each individual axis.  So what I believe you would want to do is set the ports and pins configuration to:

X++: 10
X - -: 11
X Home: 11
Y++: 10
Y - -: 12
Y Home: 12
Z++: 10
Z - -: 13
Z Home: 13

Remember, there are two limits - one for each direction - that must be accounted for.  Usually, a shared switch arrangement would have the two limit switches wired together and connected to the respective axis input pin (i.e. 11 for X, 12 for Y and 13 for Z) and then putting all three signals on Ports and Pins to the same pin number.  So your pins would be 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13.  However, the way you have it should work, you just need to change the pin assignments as I listed above.

And yes, the Y axis moving in the wrong direction is what is triggering the Reset button flashing and halting on you.  A limit switch that is shared with the home signal (as is the case with your lower limit) will be ignored in a homing operation but if it is not shared like you have for the + limit, that will not be ignored.  The Y axis moving in the wrong direction will trigger the limit in this arrangement.  We need to get that axis (and possibly the X axis since we haven't yet gotten that far) moving in the correct direction for homing.  So what you'll need to do is go to Config | Home Limits and set the Home Negative opposite of what it is currently set to for each axis that is homing in the wrong direction.  Since your Y axis is moving in the wrong direction, that one definitely needs to be changed.  (i.e. if it has a red "X" change it to a green Check Mark and vice-versa.)

Try that and let me know how it goes.

(As for the "Novel" length discussion, I've seen much longer War and Peace discussions on this board.  That's just the nature of troubleshooting so don't feel like this is unique!)  ;D

Highspeed
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 13, 2016, 01:39:07 PM
Actually, I need to amend the above information.  The Z-Axis will probably be homing in the positive direction so it should be set up as:

Z++: 13
Z - -: 10
Z Home: 13

Highspeed
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 14, 2016, 01:09:26 AM
Mid afternoon I set Pin numbers as you listed,  Clicked Apply, O.K. & Reset.  Noted that "Soft Limit is off".  Clicked Ref All Home.   Tool moves upward (Z-axis) and triggers Z-Home and backs off but not enough to clear the switch.  But, the table then moves (Y axis) toward front -  wrong direction).  I click stop and go to Input Signals to reverse which of the 3 Y settings.  You say "Go to Config|Home Limits and set Home Negative opposite to     I don't see either of those  Home Lim  or Home Neg.   Which one do I reverse?  I have a choice of Y Home, Y++, or Y--     Highspeed,  I've only typed (one finger- very slow) this much.  But have gone on to try many settings (trial & error/guessing on the Y reverse choice),  Y Home didn't fix it,  etc.

So tonight I tried again with more trial-guesses & then write this.

BTW, when the limit switch is triggered and Reset is flashing, the machine is sitting on the switch, How do I reset the software to move the machine off the switch without closing the session, unplugging the machine power, and twisting the rod?

Constantly get the "Failed Reset" box. It reads, in part: "Reset command is failing due to an external influence"  & more about limit switches, etc.  Then asks "Fix this for me?"   I've tried that and also gone into Input settings to make another guess.  

Each of these posts represents at least an hour of resetting/trying machine results and reading and rereading and typing.  I don't see any progress; this could go on for days.  How can I get on the phone with a Mach3 tech.   I've been there and done that for probably hundreds of calls (TurboCad, PhotoShop, Epson Wide Format) all since 2001.   I'm sure you know the drill - the tech can know the settings, and the results of each action and understand the software's feedback notes all in real time and therefore knows right what to do to solve the problem, AND simultaneously, graphically shows the beginner (the paying customer) the path to operate or the path to fix.

This is very, very frustrating;  I've been in this process since 1981 (Apple II+ & IIe) and to date I've purchased or received, w/hardware purchases, over 40 programs and only counted those on the list those which I have learned at least well enough to operate.  No games, video, streaming or entertainment…I'm a project guy.

I'll drop one on you:  Circa 1982  I purchased a Hayes MicroModem card & installed it in my Apple IIe.   On the computer, the Hayes MM dialed my son at his apartment and I was able to type a message, B/W, 40 characters to the line, 20 lines to a screen.  He could see my message on his IIe  and then type a response message; both sides of the messages on both screens.  Of course the transmission was slooooooow.  Those Apples were 64K & later 128K, w/dos.   :-)

How do I get some results in what surely is a fundamental - setting up the control of a CNC with Mach3?   What about testing the latest Input Pin settings on Diag to see if the yellow lights show correctly?      

Ya-But                  
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 14, 2016, 02:20:39 AM
On the Config Menu, there is a selection called Home/Limits.  This opens a window similar to the Ports and Pins configuration window.  Withing the Home/Limits window there is a column labeled Home Neg (although it will probably only show Home N... since the column is to narrow to see the whole title).  This column will show either a red "X" (home in the positive direction) or a green Check Mark (home in the negative direction).  If I understand your table configuration properly, you'll want a green check in the row for both the X axis and the Y axis.

But another consideration comes to mind as well - when you try to move the axes with the jogging keys (arrow keys by default) are they moving in the correct direction?  (i.e. right arrow should move the X axis in the positive directions and the up arrow should move the Y axis in the positive direction - opposite directions for the left and down arrows.)  If not, you'll need to reverse the Dir LowActive column for the respective axis in the Motor Outputs tab of the Ports and Pins configuration screen.  Make sure the axes are moving in the correct direction first before messing around with the Home direction setting.

As for the Z axis not moving away enough to clear the switch, that may be normal.  It is looking for the switch to become inactive (open in your case) and that usually happens before the stop completely moves away from the switch activation lever.  Check the diagnostics page to make sure the Z home light is not lit after the homing operation for that axis.  (At the end of the Ref All Home operation, all lights for home and limit should be off for all axes.)

I remember the Apple IIe.  I never had one (I was a commodore VIC 20 guy around that time - I was in the military at my first duty station) but my neighbor had one.  My first computer experiences was with a Radio Shack TRS-80 that my High School had for computer classes and I did some programming in Basic.  I also took a COBOL class my senior year.  That was a load of fun! (NOT)  We would hand write our code on coding sheets which were then sent to the Data Entry class to be typed onto IBM Punch Cards.  These card decks were then sent to the local college to be processed on their IBM mainframe computer system and then returned for us to see the results of our coding efforts.  This process usually took 3 - 5 days.  So in the meantime, we're working on our next projects so when we finally see the results (occasionally with errors in the program) we would already be a couple of lessons or so down the road.  But if there were errors, we would have to fix them and run through the whole process all over again because often times these programs would become subroutines of later programs and we would combine the card decks of all the component routines into one deck (ususally with additional cards for variable assignments) and run it again at the college.  You can imagine the challenge that process posed but it definitely taught us to be very meticulous in our coding phase so that we didn't have as many errors although sometimes it was the keypunch operators (students) that made a mistake.

Anyway, thanks for the trip down memory lane there.  I'm sure we'll have you running your machine soon.

Thanks,

Highspeed
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Davek0974 on September 14, 2016, 02:28:28 AM
Not seen it mentioned yet but certain points here make me think switch bounce, try increasing your debounce value - General -> General Config -> Debounce just for tests stick a reasonable figure in like 1000
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 14, 2016, 03:44:22 AM
Good point, Dave.  I had thought about that too but couldn't find where it was configured.  Thanks for adding that.  I'm assuming that for the limit and home switches that would be the Debounce Interval and not the Index Debounce?

Highspeed
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Davek0974 on September 14, 2016, 04:00:49 AM
Yes i think so, not sure on what Index debounce does.
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 14, 2016, 02:53:10 PM
I just spent 1.5 hrs checking machine, making notes and clicking reply (to #10,11,12 & 13) and typing;  and clicking post to see red note "must be logged in"  and "the subject line is empty"  and it somehow went Poof!

Oh, My, this is daunting in the extreme,

Ya-But
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 14, 2016, 03:48:10 PM
After the lost (Poof) reply I went to Config/Home/Limits to Home Neg and clicked a green check in the rows X Axis & Y Axis.  Then clicked Ref ALL button - WOW!   Tool went to Home on Z, Y & X in that order….it backs off a bit but still sitting on all the switches, and stopped.   That's the first time it's ever done all that.

As it sits, there are yellow lights in Diagnostic:  M2--Limit and M2Home.
Reset is flashing and Status message says "Limit switch is triggered".

I didn't want to touch anything, just File/End session/close XP……..and go shoot up the town!    That's the first progress to date,

Thanks to Highspeed1964 and Davek0974.  I'll file the "switch bounce" adjustment for possible later use.

YA-But   

Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Highspeed1964 on September 14, 2016, 06:43:51 PM
Yay!  Great to make progress.  I know the joy as I went through much of this not long ago.  Being that it's all still fresh in my mind is a big part of what helped me remember enough to pay it forward.

Switch debounce is definitely the next step to getting the stops to back off the switches now that we have things reacting the correct way on the movements.  That should clear it up to get you backing off the switches.

But go enjoy an evening on the town and revel in the current accomplishment first.  We'll be here when you get back... :)

Highspeed
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: Ya-But on September 15, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
I read in the manual at 5.6.6.4  "General Logic Config..  Column 4  " it reads  "…….The Index pulse and the other inputs have independent settings".  That's the word regarding Index Debounce.  Wow, that's really profound :-)  

Anyway, I added 1000 in the Debounce Interval box as Dave suggested, did a Ref All and it made all Home switches in turn and backed off each a bit but not far enough to clear/open any.  But the 1000 addition made a difference - No flashing Reset as the the Ref All process finished with all three homes witches (sp) still triggered.   Progress!  I've tried setting the debounce, 1k per trial, up to 4000.   Not sure if this increases the travel to getting off the switch. Or is it normal that it sits on the switch?  Any problem otherwise if it remains on the switch?   Also, what can a high 4000 setting cause otherwise?

Curiously I then jogged to the Z limit switch.  Reset flashes. Status: "External E-Stop requested"    Diag: M1 ++ Lim   M2++ Lim  M3--  Limit     all 3 yellow.  Same for the other two axes.   That's probably normal.  How do I get off the 3 switches?
Do I click "Mach3 can fix the setting changes for you"?     If I agree, thought it might mess other parameters that have been configured.  so I ended the session, closed Mach3 and manually backed off all switches.

Clearing a limit switch takes several resets repetitions: Jog one step,RESET, clear the reset, jog one step, RESET, clear Reset  etc, etc till it clears the switch.   Must be a better way?

Thanks,
 Ya-But

 
      
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: RICH on September 15, 2016, 07:01:29 PM
One of the screens ALt6, I think......,  has a button that will allow you to jog off the switches.
Have a look see.

RICH
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: faisalno5 on June 18, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
I have mentioned my Mach3 problem in another session as well.. however, by googling I got this page so I am mentioning here as well.

To, HIGHSPEED & Others: The External ESTop is on and by clicking Reset it is not going away.. .also I just check that on the Diagnostic Screen my M3++ LIM light is Yellow, ON. Is it because I might move the Jog manually a little bit or for other reason..... .How can I get rid of it. Any suggestion?
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: bryannab on June 18, 2018, 03:29:28 PM
Faisal,

Change the ActiveLow setting for your EStop pin and any other pins that are showing active when they should not be.

-Bryanna
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: faisalno5 on June 18, 2018, 03:32:00 PM
Thx for yr reply.

I did that but the Estop display gone however, the spindle (jog) is not moving only the numbers on the screen moves when I move with my keyboard arrows. so it didnot work ...

I really appreciate that you are taking interest in fixing my problem.. I really really need it. THANKS> :)
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: bryannab on June 18, 2018, 04:06:35 PM
Hello Faisal,

As I mentioned in another reply, you have to figure out what you're using for a motion controller. Unless you are using the parallel port as a motion controller, you need to install the appropriate plugin for your hardware. You'll also need to assign step and direction pins for each of your motors. If you want to post your profile, I can take a look at your settings and help get you moving in the right direction. Your profile name is shown in the bottom right in Mach3 (when using a default screen). The file I need is saved in your Mach3 folder in your C: Drive with that same name. It will be in XML file format. If it's Mach3Mill, give it a unique name (ex: FaisalMill) and post it as an attachment here.

Thank you,
Bryanna
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: faisalno5 on June 18, 2018, 04:46:06 PM
BRYANNA: I tried to send you the file in the Reply.. .but it is giving me an error by saying it has already been submitted.. Have you got it. ?
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: faisalno5 on June 18, 2018, 04:47:34 PM
there you go again.
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: bryannab on June 19, 2018, 08:18:56 AM
Faisal,

The first thing I encounter in your profile is a 'Locked' message. Are you able to get past that? Once I got past that, I checked out your ports and pins, which look reasonable. I also saw in both your profile name and the XML file itself that you are likely using a UBOB from CandCNC. If you go to Config>Config Plugins, is their plugin on the list? If so, is it enabled? If it is installed and enabled, try going to Function Cfg's>Reset Device Sel and then restart Mach3. It will give the option upon startup to choose which motion controller you would like to use. Make sure yours is connected and powered up (if applicable), choose it from the list, and test communication with something basic like your Estop or a home or limit switch. If you have communication, then move on to testing your motors.

-Bryanna
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: faisalno5 on June 20, 2018, 04:38:05 PM
I thank you Bryanna for your reply. I am going to Test it in the way you said. However, just to let you know that in the diagnostic page .. I found "M3 ++ LIM" light is Yellow red. Does that mean that something wrong with the motor as well???

I tried to down load Mach3 from one of my friend's comp. to one of my new machine with Windows 7, that also has parallel ports.... I have written the exact config. from the past so exactly copied after downloading and connecting to the new computer with the fresh down load of Mach3.. but Alas! same result it said Emergency External Estop requested again. Now one thing is different on the new one is once I click Clear and Reset it again it said, Limit Switch Triggered.... Does it give you and twist on the situation. Please consider this too and let me know if you can. I would rather go with my old Mach3 and old comp. machine than with the new machine...... As you know my email address so you can feel free to email me as well.

Thanks again

Faisal
visualletters5@gmail.com
 
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: bryannab on June 20, 2018, 04:41:50 PM
Hello Faisal,

That LED lighting up is telling you that Mach3 is receiving a signal on the pin you have designated for your Motor3 limit switch on the positive side. If that switch is not actually being pressed, you just need to go to Config>Ports and Pins>Input Signals and find the Z++ pin. Change the Active Low setting and it should go out and you should be able to reset the emergency stop.

-Bryanna
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: faisalno5 on June 20, 2018, 04:56:07 PM
Ohhh. so you think... that is the problem???
Title: Re: "Software Limits" in Status during Ref All Home
Post by: RICH on June 25, 2018, 03:56:47 PM
nothing has been working or worked out... any help from anyone. Need help pls reply.

thx

NOTE:
This post from faisalno5 moved from "Re: New people welcome !! Come in here and introduce your self!"
RICH