Machsupport Forum

General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: gravie on August 21, 2016, 05:32:35 AM

Title: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 21, 2016, 05:32:35 AM
My new Project
Mach 3 or 4, Mikron WF3, CS Labs Controller,
Backpack case for the original control panel
Touch screen
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 21, 2016, 05:33:46 AM
The work after 2 days
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 21, 2016, 06:04:41 AM
The big problem is the manual gear box.
I want to use a frequency converter and change only one gear with a belimo actuator......i hope it works.
any other idea?

for the linear scale i use a heidenhain EXE 602 e converter (sinus wave to ttl) box.


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 21, 2016, 07:22:03 AM
1. Step

TNC 131  out and CS LABS with Heidenhain EXE602E and   frequency inverter in with the original servos.


2. Step

Modify Gearbox and ballscrew spindles

3. Step

DIY Tool Changer

4. Step

4.Axis


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 22, 2016, 06:01:48 PM
Looks like a nice machine, looking forward to seeing the progress :)
Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 24, 2016, 02:09:38 AM
i have a question about the BBC servo amp.
mikron use a switch ( phase cange for motor and endcoder)  after the servo amp for + and -  feed.
but can i use the BBC servo axodyn 05LE  amp with +-10volt for + and - feed?
i connect the cs labs io to pin 3 (Vref+) and pin (Vref-).

Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 24, 2016, 05:36:16 AM
the motor is a
http://callantechnology.com/callan_technology_products/TT-295X/TT-295X.html
kollmorgen/inland/callan TT2952B.
can i buy an alternativ controller for the servo motor?

i think, the BBC AMP only controll the speed and not the direction.

Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 24, 2016, 04:35:27 PM
after using google i found the follow motion controller with +-10v input:

Advanced Motion Controls Brush Type PWM Servo Amplifier 12A8K
or
Callan AS-80-8/15 DC SERVO AMPLIFIER
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 24, 2016, 05:22:24 PM
I don't think the Amp will only control speed unless it was meant for something like a spindle.
I will have a search and see if I can find a manual for it in English as afraid I do not know German.

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 24, 2016, 05:30:12 PM
Ok, it is indeed just a speed controller, was this used on the machine before?
Was it just used as a power feed of some sort?

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 24, 2016, 06:05:17 PM
yes,  mikron use a relais for cw/ccw switch.
its a 2 quadrant motor....and i found only the callan controller with +-10 volt input.
http://www.callantechnology.com/callan_technology_products/product_range.html
but where can i buy it or similar???

Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 25, 2016, 06:26:37 AM
I would imagine any DC drive that falls within the voltage and current specs of the motor would do.
Saw someone post recently about ones in the UK, it was just an amplifier rather than a drive but think it worked omk.
Will see if I can find.

You could contact AMC that you linked to earlier as they likely have something suitable.

Other option would be to watch eBay and see if you can find something.

Last option may be to go for AC servo motor and drive.

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 25, 2016, 06:36:31 AM
Ok here are the ones that I had seen mentioned.
http://www.trminternational.com/index.php/products/motors-a-drives/dc-servo-drives.html

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 26, 2016, 01:58:17 AM
i mailed with callan yesterday..i need an amp  with 10A continus/ 90A? peak and115volt.
not easy to find and expensive with  tranformer.
i think, it ist better/cheaper to got the way with used AC servos/controllers

is it possibile to use a siemens servo (or any other with differnt encoders, because i use linear scales)  with a kollmorgen drive?




Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 26, 2016, 03:39:19 PM
Ah ok that is quite a high peak current.

Can't answer you with regards the compatability of Siemens motors and Kollmorgen drives. Some AC servo drives can be configured for other manuafacturer motors some will only accept their own.

Linear scales will make no difference with respect to the servo drives as you will be using the scales to feed the CSMIO/IP-A and as long as there is no backlash in the system it should work OK.
The servo drives and motors however will have to be compatible with regards feedback on motor and feedback acceptable to the drive.

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 27, 2016, 09:00:06 AM
new pictures
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 27, 2016, 09:06:38 AM
2
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on August 27, 2016, 04:36:39 PM
Looking good :)

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on August 31, 2016, 04:31:11 PM
how should i connect the dahlander motor to the frequency converter?
low speed or highspeed?

can i turn/position the spindle for  ATC  with a dalander motor / frequency converter and  proximity sensor with a 6 tooth wheel?


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on September 02, 2016, 03:44:32 PM
Sorry don't really know, but think  it will depend on the voltage your VFD outputs whether you use Star or Delta.

Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 06, 2016, 01:54:07 AM
the "high-voltage" area is finished.
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 08, 2016, 02:00:01 AM
i want to connect the tool changer button for the hydraulic valve and collet chuck.

how is the right way for the option automatic tool changer and a faulty operartion at runtime M3/M4 spindle or  programm.


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: Hood on September 09, 2016, 04:03:25 PM
Sorry do not understand what you are asking, seems like it may be several different things?
Hood
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 10, 2016, 01:45:39 PM
i want a manual button for unlock the tool clamping and i want the automatic tool changer funktionality.


- the manual button to an digital input
- the hydraulic valve for the clamping  connected to an digital output
is this the right way?
but i can`t find the settings for this funktionality.  



next question..

i use the mpg modul with 2 5v analog inputs.
can i use the inputs for the SRO and FRO potis or are the only for the mpg mode ?
the CSMIO-A use 2 analog 10v inputs for the SRO/FRO potis.






Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 11, 2016, 03:51:03 AM
manual page 72
 ::)

i can use the mpg modul anlaog input.
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 15, 2016, 04:48:48 AM
a new idea for the gear chaning is to use a FALLER 180725 servo control,  4 outputs for servo modul , 4 inputs for switches, 1 output for a fixed, low spindle speed (input frequency converter).
and 2 or 3  RC jumbo servos with a torsion bar spring (same mechanical mounting as at the newer mikron WF41/51C machines)


http://www.faller.de/xs_db/DOKUMENT_DB/www/anleitungen/180725_anl_01.pdf


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: DICKEYBIRD on September 15, 2016, 09:16:47 AM
Hmm, very interesting.  I never knew such a device existed!  I'm interested to see how you use it on your machine.:)
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 15, 2016, 11:24:17 AM
yes, but the VB script is the big problem for me.


use everyone the heidehain EXE 602 box with a CSMIO control unit?

after pushing the reset i received a window with failure "DS26C31 Powersupply Malfuntion".

is the power consumption to high for the encoder chanels?
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 17, 2016, 11:43:30 AM
the linear scale mistake was a inverted cable and plug ..   ::)  with the same colours, but a mirrored numbering. ???
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 25, 2016, 07:32:35 AM
now i can setup the software

Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 25, 2016, 07:39:01 AM
the linear scales works now with the controller and the heidenhain EXE 602 adapters and the spindel too,
but i have problems with the amps and the setup for the axis with the pid tuning and moving the axis.

i can`t login in 2  of the kollmorgen 603 amps with the kollmorgen drive software and one csmio output are not at 0v. i change the shield cable with the shortest line to the csmio, but its the same shift (100mv). i can correct this with the software (in the servo am or csmio) , but it isn´t the right way.



the same problem as slovenic with the spindels?
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,32308.0.html
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on September 29, 2016, 12:17:38 AM
how can i activate (easy) a solenoid with a (digital) input button (IO modul) and an digital output (csmio-a unit)?

with a vb script or with brain or easy in the mach menu?


i want also activate the toolchanger solenoid (output CSMIO-A unit)  with a button (connected to the  io modul ) after the m6 command.


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on October 01, 2016, 10:59:44 AM
the tool clamping works now with a simple brain.
 ::)


i can´t find a M3 button in the software ....how can i turn the spindle on with an external button?
with a "send string to plc" command in brain?

and can i use the csmio-ip  i/o`s direct with brain commands?
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on October 22, 2016, 08:00:18 AM
i fitted the ball screws at the x and y axis, but the cheap micron spindels arent backlash free.

the pid tunings works now much better as with the old trapeziod spindles.

i changed today to the mach 3 62 version in an different folder.
how can ich transfer the cs labs settings to the new folder?
i have now problems to start the pid tuning, but the plugin works.





Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on November 01, 2016, 06:49:06 AM
Where did you buy the spindles ?  Did you bought the spindles longer then they were in original ?
I have bought new motors and meanwhile im waiting for the motors im going to prepare everything for the belts.
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on November 01, 2016, 10:17:30 AM
i bought the 3205 spindles from smalltec, germany, but the spindels are micron/ukraine

http://www.micron.ua/en/products/ball-screws

i think, hiwin spindles are better qualitiy.

the spindles are longer than orignal.
i can send you drawings for the parts.

Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on November 04, 2016, 03:31:39 PM
Did it cost alot of money ?
How hard is to change the spindles ? Are you considering also to replace the Z?
Yes that would be great . Im waiting for the motors now.


Thank you for your help so far !
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on November 05, 2016, 11:48:50 AM
yesterday i found the controller for the original dc motors in an hungary ebay shop.
160v and 30a >:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No__uUdG1yY but not for  the csmio ip A
http://www.cncdrive.hu/shop/index.php?productID=459
http://shop.cncdrive.com/

the shop sells cheap spindles too.


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on November 16, 2016, 11:58:22 AM
the first run with the new z-axis spindle.
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on November 27, 2016, 03:15:05 AM
this is the gear shifter

is ist a possibility to run it with a brain or works this only with an vba script?

i need/have:
6 inputs for the switches (only for controlling)
6 outputs for the position (to the faller servo box with programmed postions)
1 output for the spindle motor ( to the frequency inverter with an input for a fixed speed , 20 1/min for better gearing)


Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on February 05, 2017, 12:05:17 PM
the gear changing works, but still not perfect

https://youtu.be/y3hXnMe5g_8
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on February 05, 2017, 12:07:10 PM
picture
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on December 29, 2017, 09:28:00 AM
Hey, how is your progress? I have some small adjustments to make on mine and then hopefully I will run my machine on the end of January 2018
Still having some position correction we are talking 0.005mm the motor is constantly searching for the position.
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on February 18, 2018, 07:24:20 AM
hallo slovenec,
it runs, but it needs fine tuning.

there are on all axis belt driven ball screws without gears.
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on February 18, 2018, 07:29:12 AM
before
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on March 05, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
Nice job! It looks like new. Can you help me with another mather . Which pull stud are you using the thing on the SK40 tool holder?
I can’t find one that will clamp into my microne.

Bestr regards

A picture for reference
:
http://www.lyndexnikken.com/images/files/CAT40-Mori-Pullstud.jpg (http://www.lyndexnikken.com/images/files/CAT40-Mori-Pullstud.jpg)
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on March 06, 2018, 04:21:13 AM
DIN 2080
http://www.eroglumakina.com/de/produkte/zubehor/anzugsbolzen/anzugsbolzen-din-2080
http://www.aydosa-tools.com/index.php/aydosa-products/tooling-systems/accessories-tooling-systems/accessories-pull-studs-din-2080
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on March 06, 2018, 04:26:10 AM
Ooo man thanks !!! You saved me ! I was losing my mind wich pull stud is the right one !
Thanks alot!


Best regards

I will upload some pictures of my machine.
 
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on March 16, 2018, 04:13:52 PM
Greetings,

can you help me some more? I have trouble with oil in the upper side in the motor spindle.
I filed some oil in the second hole, and the level raised in the first (oil level checker) in the second it looks like oil is in.
I don't have a clue how much oil t put in and are the two holes in the same oil tank?

I searched the whole internet for manuals Mikron wf3  and all I found are manuals for wf2 and some *********....

Do you know something about this?

Here are some pictures

https://ibb.co/dMgr4c
https://ibb.co/kZKNAH
https://ibb.co/j9WPPc (https://ibb.co/dMgr4c
https://ibb.co/kZKNAH
https://ibb.co/j9WPPc)
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: slovenec on March 16, 2018, 04:16:09 PM
Sorry pictures here :

https://ibb.co/dMgr4c (https://ibb.co/dMgr4c)
https://ibb.co/kZKNAH (https://ibb.co/kZKNAH)
https://ibb.co/j9WPPc (https://ibb.co/j9WPPc)
Title: Re: MIKRON WF3 RETROFIT
Post by: gravie on March 19, 2018, 01:06:21 AM
one is for the gearbox an the other is for the horizontal spindle.