Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: kolias on July 13, 2016, 12:17:20 PM
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My router is a Bosch 16176 model, 2.25HP, 12Amps, VS (8-25K RPM) and I try to set it using a C33 BOB. This BOB has two AC Terminals one for the router and one for coolant or vacuum but I only use the router terminal. On the router terminal its written ON/OFF=PIN 1, Speed=PIN 14 and I have set this pins on Mach3 Ports & Pins/Motor Outputs and Output Signals
On the Mach3 spindle setup tab I have checked the Disable Spindle Relays, Use Spindle Motor Output and PWM Control and I have put PWM frequency 300, and Min PWM 5%.
On the Mach3 Motor Tuning I have 1000 for steps per and the Accel/Vel are set to the middle of the range
When I use M3S8000 the router starts ok but when I use M5 it takes about 8 seconds before the router comes to a complete stop (at about 5 seconds it starts reducing the RPM and then slowly stops). However the worst is when I exit Mach3 after 3-4 seconds the router starts at full speed!
Then I re start Mach3 and without doing anything the router continuous to run and after 5 seconds it stops.
Any idea what is wrong?
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In my case when I shut off Mach3 my router would start running until I hit the external e-stop. I installed a charge pump in the e- stop circuit so when ever Mach was not in control it would shut everything off.
Ray
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In any case its not normal to have the router running after the control software (Mach3) is not loaded. I will try the same to see if I get the same results
Thanks Ray
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Yes my Estop also stopped the router but this is not right. Mach3 controls the cnc and when Mach3 is not loaded nothing should run on the cnc. In my case even when I exit from Windows and shut down the PC the router still is running.
I have an ON/OFF switch to control manually the router but I installed the switch for extra safety when I change tools on the router and not for this situation
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Hey Ray, is your BOB a C33 also?
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No it is a C10 driving a relay board and at that time I was using the parallel port. The parallel port may do some strange when Mach is shut down.
You may have a different issue causing your problems but I now always add a charge pump just for safety.
Ray
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I have a theory which may be wrong. I also have the C10 which drives my 4 stepper motors and the C33 which drives all limits + the 2 relays for the router / coolant.
But when we are setting Mach3 pins and we use pin 14 Mach imay get confused because there are two pins 14, one on the C10 and one on the C33. So when we exit mach and we shut the router via a M5 command or with the charge pump, that is ok but pin 14 on the C10 may be active allowing current to the router.
Perhaps we can set one pin 14 to port1 and the other to port2 ?
Tomorrow I will try this logic and she what the results are. I will post back
BTW I also have charge pump active
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Forgot to mention that pins 1,14, and 16 on the C33 are hard wired (there is no actual pin connections on the BOB)
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Yes my Estop also stopped the router but this is not right. Mach3 controls the cnc and when Mach3 is not loaded nothing should run on the cnc.
I think you are wrong here personally - if mach is not loaded it should not be possible to engage the safety system so that the tool rotates - very unsafe.
Also, on a pc, if Mach is not loaded and controlling the LPT port, anything can happen at any time, its a dangerous situation having machines hanging off an uncontrolled port on a pc - the safe setup would be to boot pc, load Mach3, power up the BOB, power up the controlled machine, take Mach3 out of reset into the run condition.
When a PC is booting, the ports get polled and that can do very odd (and dangerous) things, my plasma torch has been known to fire for a second if the system is not started correctly.
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I agree with you regarding the LPT port but otherwise we both say the same thing
“If mach is not loaded it should not be possible to engage the safety system etc.”
Definitely it’s not safe after I stop the router with an M5 command and exit Mach (now I’m on the Windows desktop) to have the router starting on its own
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Definitely it’s not safe after I stop the router with an M5 command and exit Mach (now I’m on the Windows desktop) to have the router starting on its own
That sounds like it is using the wrong contacts on the control relay - normally closed and using Mach to pull them open instead of normally open and using the system to pull them closed. This would cause the router to start up if mach is not running to hold the relay open.
It's wired backwards ;)
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My e stop circuit is hard wired to a master control relay not to Mach3 that controls all power to motors and relays and must be reset after Mach is running and the charge pump is receiving the signal. The master control relay also tells Mach3 through one of the pins that the e stop has been hit so it stops also.
How it operates.
Start computer and then start mach3. You must then press a reset button for the main control relay to close and latch in if the charge pump is receiving its signal.
If you hit an e stop or if the charge pump looses signal (like closing mach) the relay opens and all power is removed.
very similar to a "Start-Stop Circuit"
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I have never used a C33 board so I went to get some information on it. It appears the charge pump is part of the C33 board so if it is enabled and wired correctly it should work fine.
As Dave said it sounds like it is wired backwards.
Ray
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I have the C10 and C33 BOB’s. The PC parallel cable is connected to the C33 and from the C33 I connect to the C10 with another parallel cable.
On the C10 I only have connected the 4 stepper motors and they all work fine. There is nothing connected on the pins 1, 14, 16, 17 on this board
On the C33 I have connected all Limits / Estop and they all work fine. There are no other signal pins on the C33.
On the C33 there is also the 5VDC / Enable connections which is working since the green LED is lit..
And then on the C33 there are three 120VAC connections (each connection has 3 pins for N, L, GND). One is to supply 120VAC to the board, the other is to supply 120VAC for Coolant or Vacuum which is empty because I don’t use it and the last is to supply 120VAC to the router.
When I asked the vendor how Mach3 knows that the router / coolant 120VAC outlets needs to be energized, I was told that’s done internally to the C33
So where is the wired backwards?
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After many tries, it has been confirmed that the C33 is not a suitable with the C10 if you want to have the router ON/OFF functions of the C33. To make them working together some internal circuitry must be modified in either the C10 or C33