Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => CS-Lab => Topic started by: Horasio310 on June 12, 2016, 01:05:10 AM
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Would someone help me to see if I can indeed use the original servo spindle motor and drive on my CSMIO-IP/S ...
Its a Sanyo Denki BL Super PZ drive and oringinal motor I have attached pictures maybe someone can help ?
If im able to use it do i need to set parameters on the drive ?
Thanks, Horasio
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Or should I or can I use a large 7.5kw vfd and drive the spindle motor ?
Can I drive the motor using a vfd limiting to 200v output and make a mechanical system for spindle orientation ?
Thanks
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If the drive can acccept Step/Dir input then it will work and will be much better than a VFD and Induction motor.
Hood
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It seems as if I may need a operator control to set parameters and those controls on eBay cost $1000 USD plus I would need to buy a decent rotary phase converter also which is another $1000 USD , would I be able to drive this motor like a induction motor using a vfd would be a lot cheaper if possible ??
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No I dont think you can run a servo from a VFD.
What KW is the servo?
Hood
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It is a 7.5 kW 10hp
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Ok, don't think you will find a servo drive that is single phase for that size of a servo, biggest single phase I think I have seen is 3Kw drive.
Hood
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Maybe one of those Speedstar vfd's that are 10hp ?
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Not familiar with those VFD's but it would work with an induction motor but unlikely a servo but you never know, you would have to check the docs.
Hood
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I've seen fanuc spindle motors being used with vfd drives would this be similar ?
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Probably not, spindle motors on CNC machines are often not servos but just high spec motors run from a VFD.
Hood
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So if I want to go vfd route I'd need to get for example a fanuc ac spindle motor and run that off a vfd drive ?
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No you would just need a normal 3 phase induction motor, well as long as it was rated for VFD use, most nowadays will be.
You will not get constant torque as you would with a servo and if you slow down too much you will lose a big chunk of it, that is why a normal VFD/Induction motor is not the best route but if that is your only option then......
Hood
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Brushless servos are basically AC induction motors, with their drives being more advanced VFDs.
Looking at the wiring, I'd say you should be able to drive your existing spindle motor using a VFD.
US, VS, WS will be the main power wires, SFAN will be the cooling fan power (you'd need to work out what voltage it needs), SPOH will most likely be a switch that breaks the circuit when the spindle overheats. The other connector will be the spindle encoder.
I'd be inclined to try a cheap VFD, and see if you can get the spindle to run. Even an undersized VFD should be able to spin up the motor to see if it will run, before spending money on a more suitable VFD.
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AC servos are synchronous motors, I think and I think you will have problems keeping it synchronous with no feedback, fine with no load possibly but add varying load and things will be different.
What would happen in that situation I am unsure but likely it would stall like a stepper would but then I am just really guessing here as I have no experience and have not looked into it .
Hood
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It depends on the motor, but given the wiring is pretty basic, with the encoder details separate, I'd doubt this motor relies on sensors to run.
The best place I can think of asking, would be over on the Spindle/VFD board on CNCzone - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles-vfd/
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Let me know what you find mc, would be interested in this as I have quite a few big servos that could be used as spindle motors if a cheap drive could be used.
I suspect however that as they are synchronous motors then the reason they have feedback is so that the drive knows where the rotor is and can drive the windings correctly to keep it in sync.
Hood
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I've done a bit searching and reading, and you are correct about synchronous motors.
This article from Novak (big remote control motor/driver supplier) explains what the sensoring is used for pretty well - http://teamnovak.com/tech_info/view_article/24
Obviously it's aimed at small high RPM motors.
However a search of inverterdrive.com, and some of the Closed Loop Vector drives can handle synchronous motors. I only checked the first couple pages, but the Teco A510's, Invertec Optidrives P2's, and WEG CFWxx's all specifically mention being suitable for permanent magnet synchronous motors.
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Yes but I suspect most of these drives you mention will be getting on for servo drive prices and quite possibly be 3 phase for a 7.5Kw one.
BTW Control Tecnhiques also do drive which are sort of all rounders as well. They have add on modules for all sorts of feedback etc but again you are talking servo kind of prices :(
Hood
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I'm thinking what to do because I'm very limited to space on the head because of the mechanical tool release mechanism.. I'm thinking sourcing a Fanuc model y ac spindle motor and a vfd ? What do you guys think
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Meant Fanuc Model 6 ac spindle motor and doing a shot pin to orientate spindle
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Afraid I don't know anything about the Fanuc motor but if it is an induction motor rather than a synchronous motor then it may well work with a standard VFD.
As mc said the zone is a good place to look or ask.
Hood