Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => CS-Lab => Topic started by: drumsticksplinter on May 04, 2016, 04:46:05 PM
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Hi guys,
I'm doing a retrofit of a small lathe using the csmio/ip-a module, plus the enc & mpg modules once they arrive. I've just got a few queries regarding the functionality of the mach4 plugin cslabs have provided. I've tried setting up my spindle today, but can't seem to get any analog voltage. I reverted back to mach3 briefly and can get the spindle running easily. The setup is slightly different in mach4 and I'm not familiar with it yet. I just wondered if anyone has already got a machine running on the same setup? I've read that threading and rigid tapping aren't supported so far and will be coming in a later upgrade, any ideas when these updates are likely to be?
Thanks.
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Hello
if you mean the G84, to date January 2020 does not work yet, I know for sure why my friend has your controller and it does not work (he has a mill).
did you use the cycle G76 ??
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G32 / G76 isnt working with Mach4 and CSMIO for me too.
After reach point XZ - G76 command is freezing. Nothing happens.
Cs-lab wrote to me, that they are working on it and threading will be fixed in future plugin update. no ETA.
Is there anyone who has working CMSIO + Mach4 G97/G32 threading?
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I have the same problem .. G76 and G32 do not work with Mach4 and CSMIO IP-A .. Any help?
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I with CSMIO IP S can thread.
synchronism is excellent.
the only problem (which is very important) is that if I inevitably have to resume the threading cycle to reach the necessary dimensions, there is the risk of throwing the piece away because it does not always start from the same point, as a result I spoil the thread previously created.
I have already reported this problem several times to cslab, but they reply that their controller is only responsible for synchronism, the route calculations there do Mach4.
what kind of spindle do you use?
I add a note
on my lathe, I have a single interval.
but a friend of mine who has mechanical intervals, despite the fact that the table has been correctly compiled, (therefore the scheduled shifts correspond to the real for each interval)
the thread pitch is totally wrong !!!
to do it well, he must deliberately enter an incorrect step that he finds (now I don't remember if he multiplies or divides) using the ratio value for the step.
is something that absolutely must be solved !!
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Hello, from what I read, you have managed to synchronize for threading.
I have a problem that the tool is positioned but does not advance.
Could you help me to see how you have done the encoder configuration? If you have done something special? I did not get to work. It would be a great help. I have the csmio ip + csmio encoder.
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Hello Daniba , from what I read, you have managed to synchronize for threading.
I have a problem that the tool is positioned but does not advance.
Could you help me to see how you have done the encoder configuration? If you have done something special? I did not get to work. It would be a great help. I have the csmio ip + csmio encoder.
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Hello.
first of all IP A supports the thread ?? you asked CsLab ??
there are functions that work on the IP S, while on the IP A they do not work.
do you use mechanical ranges?
the impulses are set right to 10000 ?? (2500 * 4).
what kind of motor do you use for the spindle ??
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Hi Daniba, I insist again to thank you for answering.
Let's see about the questions you ask me.
According to cslab the csmio ip-a if it can do the threading, told us to put the csmio on it. that with that if we were going to be able. the encoder if it tells us the real rpm.
If I use mechanical ranges, the cnc lathe had a cnc control siemens sinumerik old and we were no longer given technical service for that control so we decided to put this one.
the encoder we use is 4096 pulses, 1024 * 4.
the motor is controlled by a servomotor.
Let's see if we can get it started. thanks
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do you manage this spindle motor with 0-10 volt analog output?
have you tried to remove the tick on wait for rpm stabilization? (or a similar phrase).
what plugin are you using ??
mach4 version ??
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Hi Danila, I am also asking you about the other thread for the configuration photo, the one I would like you to send me is the spindle configuration plugin. I don't know if I explain myself? or the encoder configuration.
Regarding the other questions.
if we handle the motor spindle with the analog output 0-10 volts.
The rpm stabilization mark is 0.
The plugin we use is the cslab plugin.
The version of mach 4 is last year's, tomorrow I could tell you exactly what it is.
Really thank you very much for your time and help me out.
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I attach images.
Mach4 build 4369
plugin V3.204 (remember that I own the IP S model).
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I forgot ...
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Tomorrow when I am with the machine I will test what you have sent me, whatever I am missing if you do not mind I will continue writing to you and see if we can solve it.
thousand thanks really. Take care, and we'll be in touch.
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try this gcode in the air.
it was an internal thread.
I made 10 pieces, so it works.
%
(THREAD 28X2mm)
G99 (FEED REVOLUTION)
T1010
G97 S600 M3
G0 X23 Z10
G76 P010000 Q0.05 R0.02 K3
G76 X28 Z-34 Q0.05 P1.2 F2
G0 Z200
M5
M30
;
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Okay, tomorrow I'll tell you what happened. many thanks.
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I am European and precisely Italian.
so we use the metric system, pay attention to the gcode test data that I posted.
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I am from Spain, I will take these data into account. Much encouragement for this situation that we have for the covid19. We will get out of this. I hope everything goes well. Thank you.
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Hi Daniba, I have already set the configuration that you sent me yesterday and the threading program.
The first attempt was unsuccessful, it continues to do the same to me, the tool is placed on X and does not advance.
1st question.
do you have index activated? And if you have it activated, who controls it for the csmio ip A or csmio enc?
The only thing that can happen is.
I have the same firmware version as you, I updated it last week, but the version of mach 4 I have 3804 build. It is prior to yours, I will try to update it, as we already read there was a problem with it just as updating it has been fixed.
Another thing that can happen is that I use a servo controlled motor, instead yours is a stepper. It may be another cause.
Didn't you do anything special to synchronize it?
How long can you thread?
I await your responses and I insist again that thank you very much for your time and help.
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Hi, I have not activated any index use only encoder bought at cslab, connected to the ENC module.
I have a classical asynchronous motor operated by Toshiba VFD analog signal. (Mine is a toy lathe ... weighs 180Kg)
from how it behaves, it seems aspects a signal that does not arrive, or arrives disturbed.
encoder is connected right? (I think only one channel is needed).
is the cable shielded? I do not rule out there are eddy currents that disturb the signal.
why didn't you buy original cslab encoder?
your version of Mach4 is a bit old, even if I don't think that's the cause, update it, it won't cost you anything.
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Hi, as soon as I can, I'll update it to see if it's out there.
Do not buy the encoder because as I already mentioned we have made a retrofit of the lathe. The machine was working, the problem went away and we put this in control.
So we are using the encoder that I already had.
My lathe is a large one, a bench of 2m and a plate of 400mm.
As it is not the update, or that it derives from somewhere, I do not know where to throw it, it took more than 2 years to see if we managed to make the threading work, we asked the cslab and it told us that they would correct the firmware error.
But at the moment nothing, the machine works perfectly less the threading.
From what I see people do thread with mach4.
Thanks for everything, I will update what I said and I'll tell you to see if it works. Thank you
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yes, first thing to do, update mach4 and plugins.
so you are not sure that your IP A supports the thread ???
I ask this because at present the G84 is active only on IP S.
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Well, we asked cslab and they told us that with the csmio enc if it could be threaded. But we are seeing that no. We wrote back to them and they said it was a firmware problem that they would fix it. We have been for 2 years and it remains the same. The tool is positioned and does not advance. The only thing we have left is the update.
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have you tried to update Mach4 and plugins?
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Hi Daniba.
I still haven't been able to. Right now I have work and I couldn't stop updating. As soon as I can I inform you.
I have written again to the technical service. Let's see what they tell me.
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Hello, I have the same problem, exactly the same with CSMIO Ip-A. I already wrote to them and had no answer.
In my experience, in all other CNCs, when we do not have the encoder reference signal (Io and / Io), they also stop after positioning the axes to start the thread. If we do not have the other encoder signals, we have a feedback error, as we do not have the rotation within the limits, etc. But with the fault of reference signals, nothing is reported. In reality, only the encoder reference signal the CNC needs to make the thread.
With that I left to see the reference signal and noticed that.
1. I was using an encoder with 5000 impulse ie x 4 = 20000 pulses.
2. On the CSMIO ENC leds, I didn't see the reference signal, (of course it is very short). But in reality the positive sign did not exist. So I inverted with the negative sign and changed the parameter of the plugin, saying that it was active at zero. No result either.
My bet now is: I will change the encoder for one with 500 pulses, that is 2000 pulses, with that the width of the reference pulse will be bigger. That's my bet now.
I will make this change until 7/4.
Otherwise, I hope as you will be a help, and a solution for this, because I bought this equipment to be able to work, without it I can say that CSMIO is not being very attentive to us.
Good luck, and if successful, I'll let you know.
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5000 point encoders are too many, the signal is too small.
try then let us know.
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Hello Prendice Quirino Jr.
In my case, the reference pulse is visible to the naked eye, but as you say, it passes very quickly. Maybe he doesn't have time to read that signal.
We also tried to reverse the signal to negative and nothing.
I have tried almost everything, they told us it was a firmware problem but at the moment there are no results.
But we see that with csmio ip S if it is possible because Daniba if it is threading.
I have also tried with the index, only 1 pulse and I could not.
Mach technical support does not provide solutions.
I have been told that they do not develop cslab handling. I will write to them to see what they tell me ...
We are in contact here to see if with the tests you do and with what they answer, we can solve the problem.
Greetings Thank you
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Jose Luis, I tried with the 500 pulse encoder, and it didn't work. CSMIO Lab send anything?
We are in a critical situation, as I see that only with their help can we have this function (Thread) working.
I sold this machine, promising that it would make thread.
Maybe migrate to Vital System.
I look forward to your good news. Thanks
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Hello Prendice Quirino Jr.
If you answered me today, I told you about the problem we have, I have told you that there are several people with this problem.
What they have told me in the first place is that if we have updated the latest version of the firmware, that in this latest version is supposed to have corrected the error. I updated it 2 weeks ago and it doesn't work for me. The last update was released on February 10, so ... they will keep informing me on the other hand, to see if we can get it.
Do you have the firmware and mach 4 updated right now? I still need to update mach 4. It is for talking to them to see if they give us a solution.
We are in contact and with what they tell me I will tell you.
Regard.
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Jose Luis, I have everything updated, Mach4 and CSMIO Firmware.
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Today they answered that if we have updated the firmware, the latest version is 3,204.
If we have that one, they would keep telling us ...
Let's see the next email that they tell us ...
We are in touch.
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with version 3.204 the spindle potentiometer no longer works.
do I have a fault or does it happen to you too?
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It works for me. One thing the encoder gives you the actual rpm?
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I thought it was a failure of the spindle potentiometer
I deactivated Feed and I diverted the spindle signal to what was previously Feed (which has always worked well).
but problem persists.
therefore it must be a bug in the IP S plugin.
the programmed laps are similar to the real ones, with an asynchronous motor and VFD that I can't expect too much. they deviate by about 10 rpm.
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Hi,
this is an on-going problem with the CSMIO/A controller and plugin.
Threading is by definition a realtime process and MUST be enacted by the motion controller, in your case the CSMIO.
The CSMIO/A cannot handle thread start synchronisation....it is up to CSLabs to fix....and they have gone right off the boil.
There is nothing Mach4 can do about it.
If you need analogue servo control then get a Vital Sytems Hicon, if you have step/direction servos get a Warp9 ESS....
it seems CSLabs just plain don't care.
Craig
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Hi Craig.
Seeing the same problem that we all have, it is certainly a cslab problem.
So I have started a conversation with them to see if they want to fix it or give us a solution.
With the clients that we are having that problem, I imagine, they are interested in fixing it.
I will continue to inform you of everything they tell me. Let's see if we all succeed ...
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on some things I agree with @joeaverage, on others I don't.
I also had the impression that cslab has always shown little interest in Mach4, (my personal opinion) also because of the limited diffusion of the program.
on Hicon Integra I can't rate it because I never owned it.
on the SSE that I have on the pantograph, I tried Mach4.
on this point I have to score in favor of the cslab, compared to the SSE I find it clearly superior.
if with ESS you work on the progress slide while you work, it often gives bad shots to the axes, which with cslab does not happen at all.
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Hi,
the CSMIO/A is an analogue controller and the ESS is a step/direction controller......how can you compare the two,
they are totally different solutions?.
If your happy to stick with CSLabs then I hope you get some satisfaction, I wouldn't hold your breath....anoxia is a bad
way to go.
Craig
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I have IP-S step/direction controller.
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Hi there Today the cslab people answered me again. They have told me that they will test next week on their machine that they have tests. From there they will inform us. We are in touch. Gretting
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since you are in contact to solve the problem, if they succeed in the thread (I doubt, give your evidence),
tell him to repeat the same empty cycle several times, because one of the main problems of the thread is that, if you repeat the cycle to reach the desired size, the previous thread is damaged or completely ruined.
but here I think it is Mach4's fault, and not Csmio.
I add another sore point to the thread.
if mechanical ranges are used, therefore with ratios, despite the correct compilation of the table in the spindle-related ratios, the wire pitches are totally wrong !!!
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Hi there Today the cslab people answered me again. They have told me that they will test next week on their machine that they have tests. From there they will inform us. We are in touch. Gretting
I hope so ... Because it is causing me serious damage. My dissatisfied customer, with my bet on this CSMIO Lab system. I think Vital system would be the best and most reliable option. I agree with @Joeaverage. They have no interest in fixing that.
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5 years after the release of mach4, they still don't know if their plugins work ...
on some points I am still far behind.
I have warned them several times of the wrong thread with the use of the mechanical range ...
solutions ...
never even one !!
I repeat again:
in my case, with IP-S the thread executed in single cycle is perfect.
if you have to go over it again, you must inevitably discard the piece, because it ruins the previously created thread.
on this point, I think the cause is of Mach4 and not of CsLab.
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Hi daniba73,
I think the cause is of Mach4 and not of CsLab.
Wrong....thread synchronization is the SOLE responsibility of the controller.
Every other threading capable controller (Hicon, ESS, PoKeys, and PMDX) can all synchronize the thread
restarts when multiple passes are required.......but not CSMIO.
Its CSLabs responsibility to fix it, there is nothing Mach4 can do....its sitting on the other side of the motion buffer
of several hundred milliseconds.....it CANNOT synchronize a thread restart.
Craig
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then if it is as you say, cslab must be done.
because all the money we paid to buy their hardware was good from the first to the last penny!
and now we are the ones who demand functions perfectly.
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Hi daniba73,
I agree, CSLabs make very nice hardware....there is no doubting the quality and care taken in the manufacture of them.
Up until a couple of years ago they also had a market leading reputation for supporting their customers and fixing
any shortcomings in their firmware.
About that time they released their first Mach4 plugin, and to be fair to them its not bad....but it has bugs....and they have
not made the effort to fix them.
Given the premium money they command for their boards I think it very poor service. At least they reply to your emails
which puts them ahead of the Chinese....but not by much. Keep on them.
Given that you are in Europe do you not have the ability to make a legal claim? If I did not get any satisfaction I would persue
them in court if required.
Craig
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I sell first I ...
Mach3 users are still many.
in any case I still want to wait. after all, it's in their best interest to sort things out.
it takes a long time to build a reputation.
it takes little time to lose it.
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Hi,
after all, it's in their best interest to sort things out.
Yes it is.......so why haven't they....this problem has been around for over a year. I don't think they give a s*********t.
Craig
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I saw that they updated 3,205 plugins
have you tried it?
have solved the thread problems?
if I have time today I do tests.
what version of Mach4 do you use?
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we tried the V3.205 plugin
the results are still disappointing!
now we have to understand if the cause is in the transmission type, or is it really a CsLab problem.
I put evidence links, with images and video links.
https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=42381.20
you've tried?