Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Newfangled Solutions Mach3 Wizards => Topic started by: John S on May 14, 2007, 05:01:13 PM
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At a recent show we had a Sieg X3 on show running Mach 3 and it attracted a lot of interest in the various applications it can do, especially the wizards.
One question we were asked quite a few time was if there was a wizard for crossing out clock wheels ?
Basically this is one operation carried out by clock makers all over to turn a plate wheel into a spoked wheel.
I'm afraid I don't know a lot more but can contact some clock makers if someone wishes to have a go at doing the wizard ?
John S.
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My first reaction is that this is a task better suited to a CAD program. But it would be possible to do one if I had a set of proportions that were standard enough. For any clock one would want all the wheels to be of the same proportion, just different diameters. Let me think about this one for awhile.
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John would this more or less be a gear making wizard?
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No, what they class as crossing out is removing the bulk of the wheel in a horizontal plane to create spokes.
Here's an example.
(http://www.stirlingsouth.com/richard/clock/3.jpg)
Besides all the usual tools, feeds and speeds etc a simple wizard will need ID, OD, number of spokes, thickness and radius of the corners.
Possibly a method of selecting just the inner corners as the outer is usually determined by the cutter diameter.
On this page is a free piece of software called Master CNC Utilities that can do this and other useful wizards.
It writs direct to the PP and doesn't produce usable code that can be transferred but the "Cut spoked wheels " is something that a lot of model engineers want. Not just restriced to clock wheels but also useful for loco wheels.
http://www.colinusher.info/Software/
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Since it 'on my list' to someday make a clock, this interests me.
Would it be acceptable to do a simple scale factor, keeping everything in the same proportion? If so, I could generate the geometry in a CAD program, then the wizard would simply scale the job based on the outside diameter of the wheel. If I let the user specify the individual widths and arc radii then it gets a lot more complicated.
Would 3, 4, 5, and 6 spokes be enough?
I assume the wizard should allow for a rough pass and a finish pass, select a cutter diameter, and set total depth of cut and steps depth.
I can do this, if there is interest. Show of hands please, for those interested?
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Me for one Ron.
Malcolm Smith
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O...O... ME TOO ME TOO!!!
lol
But , yes I would be very interested.
Coog
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I have an idea on how to do this, and one that could make quite a few shapes. I think I can write gcode for a cross-out of a 'unit circle', then just scale the code to get whatever size wheel you want. Its an interesting problem, Ill work on it, but Im leaving in a week for a 6 week road trip across the country (want to do my part to help the Oil companies profit :-) I dont expect to have this for a while.
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No rush. Have a safe and enjoyable trip. Where you can use electric cars, bicycles, skateboards, pogo sticks, and dog sleds, and that will help me put an extra poke in the oil-company eye!
Coog
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i am very interested .this would be of great help to me.as i am about to atempt to build a model steam engine for my grandson.
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I 'll take a shot at it, if you can tell me what it needs to do......
scott
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gee thanks john it sure came out nice cant wait to give it a trial run.thankyou so much
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I realise that it can be done in CAD as can most of what the other wizards do.
Here's what I am talking about but you need to D/L a program to see it.
Go here to get the D/L
http://www.colinusher.info/Software/index.html
And then here's a shot of the screen.
http://www.colinusher.info/Software/CNC%20menu.html
Near the bottom left is the menu for 'Cutting a spoked wheel' which when opened gives you various options.
This software is workable but very basic, it writes to the PP on the fly and doesn't store it as code, or not that I can find.
The whole program is wizard operated and there are some nice ones that would do well ported over to Mach. I was looking at it more for trying to grab the code than run it as a program.
John S.
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Please try the new version of 'Master CNC Utilities', and the new program 'Wheels' at the new website.
www.alanjmunday.info
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Here you can find a free gear generator: http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html it outputs HPGL code, but I found that coreldraw have an import filter for it BUT, its not in the default install, so you have to select it at install time.
cheers
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I can do this, if there is interest. Show of hands please, for those interested?
I'm very interested. I'm in the process of trying to generate the code for such a project now.
Vince
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Hi
I have just completed a set of wheels for a grandfather clock I am building I drew the wheels in Autocad saved them as a dxf imported them into Lazycam and got perfect results with all my wheels perfectly crossed out.I am noe in the process of cutting the teeth using the gear cutting wizard,
Biffo
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I know this is not what you want to do, but here is a way.
Use the wheel program to get a pic of the finished displayed wheel.
Now invert the picture ( don't have to but it just looks better ).
Print it out and use Copycat to generate the code. Do one or all the spokes ( a single quadrant with gcode and use a rotary table to index it ). Faster than you can draw it!
There are some image to gcode conversion programs out there.
This gets you away from CAD.
BTW, you can use scale to what you want in MACH or scale the image before using COPYCAT.
RICH
MODIFIED: ADDED A PICTURE OF THE GCODE FROM ONE OF THOSE MAGIC WAND CONVERTING PROGRAMS.
I could probably get the gcode for the whole piece, but what do you want for a minutes work! ;)
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Why not use 'Master CNC Utilities 2" to directly do your crossing out?
Go to www.alanjmunday.info. Click on 'Info' for Master CNC Utilities, then click on 'Interfaces' and follow the advice I have been given.
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I have used MasterCNC for this very job, and it work well + its easy to use.
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Ron,
I do a bit of work with clocks and the idea of a crossing-out wizard is attractive. I am not sure, however, that scaling the parameters in proportion to the outside diameter alone would meet everybody's needs. The thickness of the rim (outer annulus, or whatever you wish to call it) is often related to the size of the teeth as well as the OD of the wheel. The escape wheel in your picture has quite large teeth in order to do its job while a meshing gear with a high tooth count might be expected to have a narrower rim, not least because the loading would probably be less.
In a similar way, the size of the boss (circle defining the innermost points of the cutouts) would not necessarily increase in diameter in direct proportion to the outside diameter.
This is not intended as a discouraging response, just a contribution to the debate from someone who has so far used CAD only and is intrigued by the thought of a wizard. How hard would it be to design a wizard which allowed the input of the inside diameter of the rim, the outside diameter of the boss, the number of spokes and and the radius of the corner of the cutout next to the boss? Together, of course, with inputs to cover thickness of material, depth of cut etc.
The appearance of clock wheels is quite important and elegance as well as functionality have traditionally been factors influencing quartering.
Hope this is helpful. Peter
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Hello !
New to the forum but a keen clock repairer (amateur) - I am at present building a small cnc mill to do crossing out, but it will be a while before it is completed ! - am very interested in this project , unfortunately I do not have the gcode skills at this time to contribute , I find cutting brass can be a problem with small milling/slot cutters and as some corner shapes in older clocks are sharp - not a radius , filing to a finish is often required.
thanks
Doug
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Hi
I make quite a few clock gears and use my small cnc mill which I converted using a sieg mill. I draw the gears from the original and post it into lazycam as a dxf file then send it to mach3 it works fine and the crossing out is perfect but as you say you will have to file the corners if you want a sharp edge.
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All you clockmakers should have a look at this site. Art has created a program which creates all types of gears.
http://www.gearotic.com/
RICH