Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: MuskokaMike on December 25, 2015, 05:14:08 AM
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From the 1000's of threads here there may be an answer already, but after searching I have read all kinds of issues, but not one like mine....
7 years ago I purchased a POS machine from Thom Carr Company. At the time I knew how to operate a CNC, but not how to build one, or very much on how they actually operate. I've since learned a tremendous amount.
From the very first day I turned on the machine after connecting it to the computer, when homing, jogging, or during a program run, the limit switches didn't stop the various steppers from trying to drive the gantry into the netherworld.....I contacted the manufacturer and he poo pooed me and said they only work when homing...I thought at the time: well that doesn't make sense, that's like saying the brakes on your car will only work when it's in drive.....I should have listened to my gut.
I also asked about setting the home switches to the opposite end of the Y axis, he said "you don't want to do that"...why I asked? he never answered..."you just don't"....
Anyhow, I met a guy who also has a CNC and he came over to check out mine, I showed him the issue with the limit switches and he says "limit switches are supposed to stop the travel of the axis period..."
SO, here's my question:
how to correct this? lol......and is this true? that limit/homing switches are only designed to work when you hit the ref all home button? That when you jog, or run a program, they don't?
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I'll start out with the basics that I learned in the manual.
Limit switches are a must!!! Good ones that are sealed
in some way.
Wiring must be shielded with the shield wire grounded only
at one end. Usually in the cabinet.
Limit switches can and are used as limit and homing.
When a machine is homed the switches will act as homing
limits in sequence. I believe z is 1st, y is 2nd, and x is last.
After homing then the switches are limit of travel.
I know its a little confusing when setting them up but
remember the above and you will be able to sort out
the problems.
The Mach3 manual covers this very well.
Others will chime in and offer some more info.
olf20 / Bob
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Go to Config > Ports and Pins > Input Pins, and see if the limits (X++, X--, etc.) are enabled.
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I'll check out the shielding.....and the manual.....and to see if they are enabled x++ x--
They do "kind of sort of" work because when I hit reference all home, the z raises, then the x moves to the left and then the Y...instead of having my gantry move 48" away, I'll hit stop and then z will try to raise the carriage to 20 feet above the table.....and they never work when jogging or during a program run that had a value higher than the limit.
Just typing this out: I wonder if the maker wired them ONLY had homing switches NOT limit switches...that would account for them ONLY working during a homing operation.....
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Ok, this explains one issue to me: (which reinforces my concept that the people who wrote Mach3 were monkeys):
"Note that although Mach3 uses limited jogging speed, choice of direction is entirely up to you. Nothing
will prevent you, in either case, from jogging farther onto the switch and possibly crashing the axis
into a mechanical stop. Take great care."
This means that a limit switch or homing switch has no effect on the movements when jogging....so in other words, comparing it to the steering wheel on a car, if you don't start the motor of the car, you can turn the steering wheel past the limits and destroy the front end of your car....NICE! This is normally the point where I'd like to ask the people who wrote Mach3: what the hell were you thinking?
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You are clearly not comprehending what you are reading.
Slow down, take your time and pay closer attention to the details and it should become much clearer for you.
Otherwise, there are folks here more than happy to help you through it.
Kind regards,
Russ
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Ok, this explains one issue to me: (which reinforces my concept that the people who wrote Mach3 were monkeys):
No.
When you jog into a limit switch, the machine will stop. What the quoted text refers to is AFTER the machine stops. At that point, it's up to you to jog it in the correct direction to get it off of the switch.
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That is NOT what that means. It simply mean that IF you hit a limit and mach3 stops YOU must be carefull about what direction you tell Mach3 to go in to back off the switch. After you override the limit switch function to back off you can move in any direction. It is up to YOU to move in the correct direction to properly back off the switch.
The first thing you need to learn is to program the machine to stay inside of the table boundaries . You cannot cut a 12 inch part with a 10 inch table boundary. And you must center your work inside of the boundary.
After you get that pounded into your head you will never touch a limit switch (;-).
As to switch functions there are Homing functions AND there are limit functions. They can USE the exact same switch. How they react depends on what mode the switch sees when it trips. IF the switches are only setup as home switches THEN they will NEVER work as limit switches. and vise versa.
One thing you must understand about CNC is that the machine is basically as dumb as a box of rocks. It is ONLY as smart as teh person programing or driving it. THAT is what makes the learning curve so steep. You have to learn about 3 disiplines at the same time in order to use it.
Best to take your time and learn one step at a time. Patience is the key word here. Reading and studying is the next important step. AFTER that it becomes a piece of cake and YOU become a geewiz and will have a ball working with it. BUT without the learning period you are simply DOOMED to a world of frustration.
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"One thing you must understand about CNC is that the machine is basically as dumb as a box of rocks." truer words have never been spoken my friend! lol I learned that a LONG time ago....
My biggest issue with CNC and Mach3 in particular, is this is one area that never caught on to the KISS idea of life....(keep it simple stupid)....just about every other industry learned long ago that to progress, they had to drop the "trade talk" terminology that was like greek to everyone else....Take the auto industry: they don't call the things that stop your car: hydraulic lever actuated rotational halting devices, they call them brakes.
The thing that kills me the most about Mach3? The fact that you can hit "start" to start your program run...AND THE CNC ISN'T ACTUALLY TURNED ON! LOL....I haven't tried it, but I bet Mach3 will run, even if a CNC isn't connected to the computer!
(rant over lol)
The thing that kills me too about the "limit" switches? you shouldn't be able to jog PAST the limit switch once the limit is set. No ifs ands or buts about it. That is why the limit switch is there. Or does that make too much sense? Kind of like the rotational movement halting devices on your car.....if you press the brake pedal to stop the car the car stops. If you press harder you can blow all the hydraulic lines in the system OR force the pads through the disc and sheer the wheel assembly right off your vehicle....
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mIke the main problem you have is YOU are expecting the machine to do everything to protect itself from YOU (;-) That is not going to happen unless you program it to do so.
Yes Mach3 will run without the Machine turned on and so will just about every other CNC controller in the world UNLESS it was setup NOT to. You CAN set up Mach3 to do so as well. By the way that is called a feature not a defect ( offline/online)
The CNC world is NOT going to change to suite your mentality. It has been using the same terminoligy for about 50 years now. The thinking has been IF you are not smart enough or willing enough to be able to LEARN the trade then it is best you take up Golf or knitting BUT bewarned THEY have their own unique terminoligy as well , Knit 1 pearl 2(;-). Besides the functions are NOT as exagerated as you make them. A car brake and a CNC machine brake are the same thing (;-) .
When you learn to conform to the CNC world and NOT expect it to conform to you THEN you will start having Fun with it.
(;-) TP
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The thing that kills me the most about Mach3? The fact that you can hit "start" to start your program run...AND THE CNC ISN'T ACTUALLY TURNED ON! LOL....I haven't tried it, but I bet Mach3 will run, even if a CNC isn't connected to the computer!
If the fact that Mach3 will run without a machine is your biggest problem, then just quit now.
Myself and many others run Mach3 on PC's without machines connected to them for a variety of reasons (all good reasons).
The thing that kills me too about the "limit" switches? you shouldn't be able to jog PAST the limit switch once the limit is set. No ifs ands or buts about it. That is why the limit switch is there.
A very large portion of Mach3 users have multiple switches connected to a single input pin. Because of this, Mach3 often doesn't even know which switch has has been activated.
Mach3 is a highly configurable, general purpose Machine Control. It's used for a huge variety of machines, in a huge variety of configurations.
If it did everything exactly how you wanted it to work, it would be of little use to many other users, and it's cost would be many times higher.
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You nailed it: the cnc world hasn't changed for the past 50 years....I rest my case. Every other industry has...(changed and become simpler and more user friendly).
Imagine how many printers would be sold if they used the same system that Mach 3 does? I'd say about 1% as many as are....
Oh, btw, Makerbot uses modern technology and sells a unit that someone who has never touched a CNC let alone operated one had it up and running fine in a day....makes you think doesn't it?
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Built my CNC out of old scrap parts, didn't know the first thing about CNC, let alone the stuff that drives it. Came across Mach3, bingo, my machine up and running with no issues including soft limits, limit switches and home switches. If you don't like Mach3 move on, stop disrespecting Art and the guys who have put a considerable amount of time, money and effort into this product WHICH WORKS........................................rant over, have a merry christmas
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Built my CNC out of old scrap parts, didn't know the first thing about CNC, let alone the stuff that drives it. Came across Mach3, bingo, my machine up and running with no issues including soft limits, limit switches and home switches. If you don't like Mach3 move on, stop disrespecting Art and the guys who have put a considerable amount of time, money and effort into this product WHICH WORKS........................................rant over, have a merry christmas
good on you, seriously....I've been dealing with trying to get mine to work PROPERLY since the day I got it....maybe the problem is I relied on a supposedly professional company to produce a product without flaws (I'm referring to the machine maker here) since I didn't have a clue on how to build one.......
As for Art and the time effort and money to make something that works.....ahem....a Lada works too.....I mean, if it is so great, why are their how many thousands of pages here of people who are having issues? I mean, really....a REAL man can admit his mistakes and take steps to correct them.....I mean really, every computer app in the past 35 years has a apply, a cancel, and or ok button AND a little x in the upper corner of the window...does Mach? Nope...some do, some don't....and I mean, how about a "recently used file list"?
But we're getting WAY off topic here.....
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There is your answer get a makerbot that will solve all your problems (;-)
You are seriously WRONG about everything changing like you say Most have stayed within a very narrow margin of change FOR A GOOD REASON.
(;-) So what do you think changed about printers in the last 20 years. You plug them in load the driver and loade teh print cartridge and configure your program to use it load the right size paper and away you go.
There are Plugin in play Commercial CNC machines . Set them in place , load your tools and material , insert Gcode program and push teh Big green button and have at it. ALL the pre engineering and setup already done for you.
All you have to do is open your wallet then learn Cad and CAM and tooling and material applications (;-). There really is no escaping reality, try as you might.
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ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf (http://ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf) Read this, this is all I read to get me up and running.
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I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you had no idea of what you are doing and it does not seem that you want to make the effort to learn. Many thousands HAVE made the effort and now enjoy a really cool hobby.
Did you REALLY believe the sales hipe of plug in plug and professional sales people???? Here is a hint NOT everything on the internet is the truth. There are just as many shysters on it as there were 100 years ago in any other sales market.
AND Mach3 DOES have a recent file list (;-).
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Oh, btw, Makerbot uses modern technology and sells a unit that someone who has never touched a CNC let alone operated one had it up and running fine in a day....makes you think doesn't it?
Nope.
Makerbot, and the many others like it, are toys, designed for people with no CNC experience. They lack a large portion of the functionality that Mach3 provides, because it's too difficult for their target audience, and because their programmers don't appear to know all that much about CNC. All these guys are doing is reinventing the wheel.
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I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you had no idea of what you are doing and it does not seem that you want to make the effort to learn. Many thousands HAVE made the effort and now enjoy a really cool hobby.
Did you REALLY believe the sales hipe of plug in plug and professional sales people???? Here is a hint NOT everything on the internet is the truth. There are just as many shysters on it as there were 100 years ago in any other sales market.
AND Mach3 DOES have a recent file list (;-).
No reason to personally attack me, am I personally attacking you? no....btw, I have plenty of experience as an operator of cncs for the past 15 years....I have also built from scratch computers long before plug and play. I've had to set master/slave pins on hard drives and configure IRQs....internal jumpers and all sorts of things....
Sorry, my mach 3 does NOT have a recent file list.....
See, you nailed it "hobby" I'm a professional. I earn a living on my CNC and do not have the time to spend dealing with all the issues and if you deny their are issues, then you should call yourself Cleopatra...because she was also the Queen of De Nile......
If Mach3 is so perfect, then how do you explain the thousands of posts regarding issues? and why are they even bothering to write Mach4? Maybe because, well, there ARE issues?
BTW: I did buy a complete ready to run system....and other than design flaws, the machine has worked fine...it is the SOFTWARE that is the issue.
I mean seriously, apply Mach3 to just about any other product you purchase and would YOU buy those products? For example: do you have a car? how would you like to show up at the Ford dealer to pick up your 2015 mustang GT, get handed the keys, go to start it and find nothing happens...ask the salesman: what's going on? Oh you have to program the computer to show whether you want maximum horsepower, maximum torque, top speed or acceleration....here's a 25 page manual on how to do it....after a week of messing around you go to start it again...nothing happens..."oh you have to program the computer to set up the transmission...do you want to set it up for acceleration? top speed? here's 20 pages on how to do it....go to start it again....nothing happens...what's wrong now? Oh you change the setting on the transmission now you have to go back to the main computer and change those to reflect the same choices you did on the transmission.....
yeah, you'd accept that wouldnt' you?
BTW: I also wrote operational and installation manuals in a previous job....and I got compliments all the time because they were easy to follow and weren't filled with "jargon".....
In addition, NONE of you would buy a printer that you had to do all this just to get it to work AND sorry, 10 years ago plug and play was created and has worked pretty much flawlessly since....you can buy pretty much any pc based scanner, printer, tablet, monitor, usb stick, smart phone, webcam and plug it in, turn it on, and you are away to the races...
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Oh, btw, Makerbot uses modern technology and sells a unit that someone who has never touched a CNC let alone operated one had it up and running fine in a day....makes you think doesn't it?
Nope.
Makerbot, and the many others like it, are toys, designed for people with no CNC experience. They lack a large portion of the functionality that Mach3 provides, because it's too difficult for their target audience, and because their programmers don't appear to know all that much about CNC. All these guys are doing is reinventing the wheel.
so, reinventing the wheel and what is wrong with that? are you driving around your car with wooden spoked wheels with iron bands? No...reinventing and IMPROVING the wheel is what they are doing.....
BTW: why are you all so defensive? do you have a vested interest in Mach3 or something? The way you're acting is like I personally insulted your wife or daughter....
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I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you had no idea of what you are doing and it does not seem that you want to make the effort to learn. Many thousands HAVE made the effort and now enjoy a really cool hobby.
Did you REALLY believe the sales hipe of plug in plug and professional sales people???? Here is a hint NOT everything on the internet is the truth. There are just as many shysters on it as there were 100 years ago in any other sales market.
AND Mach3 DOES have a recent file list (;-).
BTW: I've been trying for 6 years to "learn" and before you get all up in my face about not being able to "learn" as I've said, I've taught myself autocad (started with release 2), coreldraw, 3d studio, vectric aspire, mastercam, and about 1000 other applications....I was using computers when 4 mb of memory was HUGE and a 20 mb hard drive was the norm...and built them from scratch then too.....but you know the difference? Most of those applications were written with the USER in mind....you know, to make it EASIER for the USER to learn.....and you know something BIG? Autocad evolved...and their help files stopped using "jargon" so now when you do a search when you have a problem, you can find the answer and it is written in plain english.....
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Ok, I watched the video as suggested by one of the other posters which tried to explain the difference between machine coordinates and work coordinates (I think they call it work offsets for some reason).
I when into my homing limits as the video stated and no matter what I typed in, they didn't relate to the table view on the program run screen...my machine is 24 x 48 and I typed in zero as one parameter and 24 as the other for x....the table view showed it as a negative size totally unrelated to the numbers I typed in. And no, it wasn't metric because the size shown wasn't even CLOSE to 24 mm or 24 cm....so I reversed the values and again, it was totally unrelated to the actual size of the table.
In addition, I set the Z axis values...again, as was instructed, I set the zero at the top by the homing switch, and 7 1/2" at the bottom had no effect.
As indicated in the video the ONLY way to change or set machine co-ordinates is to ref all home....when I do that z zeros to the top (sets off the homing switch) then the Y starts to home, and instead of it travelling 49" to the other end, I stop it, then the Z rams itself into the top of the axis trying to move the z axis to the top of my house...instead of allowing it to destroy my machine, I hit the e stop.....
When setting the parameters in the homing limits, it states "values are in the setting units" how do you determine what the settings units are? The ONLY place I can see where units are discussed is under config and native units but this says it only applies to motor tuning.....
btw: I checked the limit switches, they all light up the LED in the diagnostics screen....
Under engine config, ports and pins, the column "active low" are all x'd out...the video says "this isn't good" but I am lax to change it because if it has anything to do with wiring, this could cause some burning/shorting and I can't afford to have my machine go down while I replace electronics.....so can anyone confirm if switching these to "yes" will or will not cause any physical damage?
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btw: I updated to the current version and I STILL don't have a recently used file list...so I'd really like to know how one obtains this basic feature.....
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btw: just want to point out: you all can go over to this thread and ream the guy for not learning the software...
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,24597.0.html
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Lets get back to the point, this is getting you or us nowhere, bitching helps no one, end of!
You have a problem with your ref home, how are your limit switches wired up, are they mounted correctly, what type of limit switch are they. Give good details and we can start to get somewhere.
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Lets get back to the point, this is getting you or us nowhere, bitching helps no one, end of!
You have a problem with your ref home, how are your limit switches wired up, are they mounted correctly, what type of limit switch are they. Give good details and we can start to get somewhere.
I have no idea how they are wired and what make they are....I probably can see if there's any info on the side of one, but how would one go about determining how they are wired? I guess I could take the cover off the control box, and take a picture of how they are connected to whatever inside....
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limit switches need to be wired in series, Mach3 will, when set up correctly, monitor the pin that they are wired to and see which one has been activated, it normally goes Z axis first, then backs off the switch until it is off it, then the X axis, backs off until its off, the Y axis until it is off - all axis in home position. In normal operation with soft limits set up correctly Mach3 monitors the pin and sees if any of the limits has been reached (either mechanically with the limit switches or numerically with the soft limits). It is explained in the link I posted earlier, please read it again, please check your machine, post back with pictures to show how it is set up, also post screen shots of your config pages of Mach3 to check all is set up correctly.
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ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf (http://ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf) Read this, this is all I read to get me up and running.
is this the post you're referring to? that's a dead link.....
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Just found that out, sorry about that. Google - Mach3 tutorial PDF, should be the second one down.
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ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf
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ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf
story of my life, that's a dead link too.....lol....
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Just found that out, sorry about that. Google - Mach3 tutorial PDF, should be the second one down.
second one down is the entire manual....:-(
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That's the one, read and inwardly digest so you understand how Mach3 works, they are in blocks so you can go down to homing limits and read from there but I urge you to read it all.
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BTW: why are you all so defensive? do you have a vested interest in Mach3 or something? The way you're acting is like I personally insulted your wife or daughter....
Because your wrong.
If you want help with something, don't come to a forum telling everyone how much you know, and why you know how things should be.
If you knew so much, you wouldn't be asking for help.
If you want to get Mach3 setup to work correctly, then you need to learn about your machine, and how it's wired. You need to know which switches are wired to which pins, and setup Mach3 accordingly. If you can't do that, then you're going to have a hard time getting your machine working with Mach3, or any other control software.
The first thing I asked you was if your limit switches were enabled. I don't see that you ever answered that? And that's probably why they don't work.
Mach3 requires some knowledge and work by the user to get it set up and working properly.
btw: I updated to the current version and I STILL don't have a recently used file list...so I'd really like to know how one obtains this basic feature.....
Click the "Recent File" button next to the Cycle Start button.
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2015 Mustang GT $46,170.00 Damn straight it comes "configured".
Mach3, $175 for the "do it yourself enthusiast" , some configurin' required .... NO comparison.
There are "Turn Key" options for you to consider that more closely match your analogy.
Haas, Fagor, Fanuc, Siemens, probably more ........
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You can buy a Flashcut system for $2000, ready to run with free phone support..... But you'll still need to know how your switches are wired.
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BTW: why are you all so defensive? do you have a vested interest in Mach3 or something? The way you're acting is like I personally insulted your wife or daughter....
Because your wrong.
If you want help with something, don't come to a forum telling everyone how much you know, and why you know how things should be.
If you knew so much, you wouldn't be asking for help.
If you want to get Mach3 setup to work correctly, then you need to learn about your machine, and how it's wired. You need to know which switches are wired to which pins, and setup Mach3 accordingly. If you can't do that, then you're going to have a hard time getting your machine working with Mach3, or any other control software.
The first thing I asked you was if your limit switches were enabled. I don't see that you ever answered that? And that's probably why they don't work.
Mach3 requires some knowledge and work by the user to get it set up and working properly.
btw: I updated to the current version and I STILL don't have a recently used file list...so I'd really like to know how one obtains this basic feature.....
Click the "Recent File" button next to the Cycle Start button.
errr "because YOU'RE wrong".....(sorry just had to throw that in there lol).....
Umm I answered that question in a previous post about the switches being enabled... so here you are giving me flack and I answered the question...
"You need to know which switches are wired to which pins, and setup Mach3 accordingly. If you can't do that, then you're going to have a hard time getting your machine working with Mach3, or any other control software." so, let me ask you this: when you pull into the ford dealership to drive home your new Mustang GT, would you accept having to do all that before you can? No you wouldn't.....
BTW: saying "your wrong" doesn't explain why you're so defensive about mach 3
If it was so easy to use, and so simple, why are there over 150,000 posts and 34,000 threads loaded with thousands of people having issues?
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2015 Mustang GT $46,170.00 Damn straight it comes "configured".
Mach3, $175 for the "do it yourself enthusiast" , some configurin' required .... NO comparison.
There are "Turn Key" options for you to consider that more closely match your analogy.
Haas, Fagor, Fanuc, Siemens, probably more ........
Hmmm ok, so what you're saying is, it is the dollar value spent which determines whether a product is properly set up or not and how easy it is to set up? So what is the cut off point, $500 $5000? $50,000?
So, you can buy a smart phone for around $100....would YOU accept having to learn how the ssd drive operates and how the quad core processor is wired before being able to make a phone call?
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You can buy a Flashcut system for $2000, ready to run with free phone support..... But you'll still need to know how your switches are wired.
btw, I spend $4000 CDN on my system....so, according to you, I should expect years of headaches with it because I didn't spent what, $20,000?
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From the manual, and this is exactly what I mean about flaws in the software...
"Note that although Mach3 uses limited jogging speed, choice of direction is entirely up to you. Nothing
will prevent you, in either case, from jogging farther onto the switch and possibly crashing the axis
into a mechanical stop. Take great care."
I mean, if you set up a "limit" safety feature, don't you think that that feature, whose sole purpose is to protect your machine, should actually PROTECT your machine? I mean, isn't that like buying condoms that you KNOW some of them have holes in them already?
Which gives me an idea to market a new product: Russian Roulette condoms....are sold in packs of 6, and ONE has a hole in them....you wont' know which one until a month later when you get a call from her saying "we've got to talk" lol.....
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BTW: saying "your wrong" doesn't explain why you're so defensive about mach 3
Plenty of Mach3 users like it the way it is, and wouldn't want it to be what you think it should be.
It's really a pretty simple program to setup and get working, if you spend a little time learning about how it works, and interfaces with your machine.
When someone says they've spent 6 years trying to get it to work, they either didn't try very hard, or are not cut out for Mach3.
When you say you have 15 years of CNC experience, something doesn't add up.
If it was so easy to use, and so simple, why are there over 150,000 posts and 34,000 threads loaded with thousands of people having issues?
Most of the longer threads here have nothing to do with peoples problems.
Many posts are questions on how to customize Mach3, whether is be writing macros, making custom screens, custom built electronics,.....
Many of the "problem" posts are simple questions that are easily answered if you read the manual.
Like, where is the "recent files" list.
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Stop comparing Mach3 to anything else please. We are trying to help. Understand that Mach3 is made to be user configerable as it can be used for hundreds of different ways depending on the end user it is not plug and play. You are tying yourself and us in knots with this comparison issue. Read and understand the basic set up manual provided and start from there, forget about plug and play, mach3 is easy once you understand how it works and to set it up. All you will end up with is no help and a machine that is going to cost you a shed load of dollars to work how you want it to, mach3 will do it for you if you let it and us help you.
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We already went over this. The limit switch will stop your machine.
Every hobby control functions in exactly the same way.
If you want a control to do what you want, they are readily available for $10,000 and up.
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btw, I spend $4000 CDN on my system....so, according to you, I should expect years of headaches with it because I didn't spent what, $20,000?
You got ripped off buy a machine builder, and this has nothing to do with Mach3. You're complaints should be to the person that took your $4000 and sent you a machine not configured properly.
Umm I answered that question in a previous post about the switches being enabled... so here you are giving me flack and I answered the question...
I went back through the thread, and all I see was that the limit LED's light up.
Can you post your .xml file so that we can see how your machine is configured?
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We already went over this. The limit switch will stop your machine.
Every hobby control functions in exactly the same way.
If you want a control to do what you want, they are readily available for $10,000 and up.
And the manual says otherwise....the limit switch will stop the machine, but not stop you from pushing the wrong arrow key and causing damage to your machine....it says so right in the manual....
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btw, I spend $4000 CDN on my system....so, according to you, I should expect years of headaches with it because I didn't spent what, $20,000?
You got ripped off buy a machine builder, and this has nothing to do with Mach3. You're complaints should be to the person that took your $4000 and sent you a machine not configured properly.
Umm I answered that question in a previous post about the switches being enabled... so here you are giving me flack and I answered the question...
I went back through the thread, and all I see was that the limit LED's light up.
Can you post your .xml file so that we can see how your machine is configured?
doesn't that mean that they are enabled? specially when I do a check config and it shows no errors in limit switches?
BTW: how do I post the .xml files?
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OK from what I see that you posted you have Zero CNC experience and Zero PC building experience and Zero PC usage experience to speak of. IF you had all that experience it would have taken you about 15 minutes to figure Mach3 out.
You are simply here to get the attention that you crave but are not getting elsewhere in life.
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At the time I knew how to operate a CNC, but not how to build one, or very much on how they actually operate. I've since learned a tremendous amount.
::) Your posts illustrate to the contrary. :)
If your comprehension of the available docs and forum posts haven't helped you to progress beyond this point, perhaps Gerry is correct in suggesting that Mach3 might not be suitable for you ... or, you for it.
Also, Mach3 is what it is and will never be revisited, updated or officially supported. It will not be changed to suit your way of reasoning. You need to keep that in mind too.
Good luck.
Kind regards,
Russ
:)
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Hi Mike,
In an attempt to resolve your limit switch issue can you please post your .xml file so that we can check your machine configuration.
Your .xml file is located in the Mach3 folder and is named <your profile>.xml (Typically Mach3Mill.xml). You will need to rename it to something unique (ie. Muskoka.xml) to be able to post it (using the Additional Options tab).
Tweakie.
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And the manual says otherwise....the limit switch will stop the machine, but not stop you from pushing the wrong arrow key and causing damage to your machine....it says so right in the manual....
If you stop a car using the brakes to avoid hitting a wall, there is nothing to stop you from chosing reverse and smashing into the wall, unless your stupid.
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And the manual says otherwise....the limit switch will stop the machine, but not stop you from pushing the wrong arrow key and causing damage to your machine....it says so right in the manual....
If you stop a car using the brakes to avoid hitting a wall, there is nothing to stop you from chosing reverse and smashing into the wall, unless your stupid.
My Mustang will do that. ;D .. if you don't know better ;).
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Some more food for thought - For arguments sake, your machine is all set up and homing limits work and your soft limits work. You hit Ref Home, your machine moves all axis to its home position, again for arguments sake X-0,Y-0 and Z-0, if you decide to move say the X axis past the limit switch, if it is all set up correctly, there is a limiting speed factor built into the set up that will only allow the axis to move at that speed, say 20% of normal operational speed, this will give you time to think and see that if you keep your finger on the jog button it will reach a solid stop, now at 20% speed this will not cause much, if any damage, most it will do is cause the motor to stall, but hopefully the operator will notice this and stop before this happens. Also some folks add a second limit switch after the homing switch to prevent this from happening, also the limits are normally an inch or so from the end of travel to allow for any unexpected failures, i.e. E stop can be pressed before failure occurs. Again this is all documented in the manual. You can also add limit switches on the other end of axis travel and this will give a further measure of protection over and above the soft limit set up. Again all documented.
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You know I don't trust the CNC, ANY cnc. So the limits on my machine are connected right in the E-Stop circuit which controls the main power contactor which quite literally stops everything, and puts Mach 3 in E-stop. Now If I hit the limit and everything shuts down I have to push the reset button and hold it in while jogging away from the limit. My limits slide by too, not a physical stop that could break something. So you can see it move the wrong way still and not break anything. This is a pain to reset. Or it was, once I learned my machine I stopped hitting the limits!
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And the manual says otherwise....the limit switch will stop the machine, but not stop you from pushing the wrong arrow key and causing damage to your machine....it says so right in the manual....
If you stop a car using the brakes to avoid hitting a wall, there is nothing to stop you from chosing reverse and smashing into the wall, unless your stupid.
actually a more accurate analogy is buying a car with accident avoidance, setting it up so it will STOP you from hitting a wall, then overriding the accident avoidance system and purposely smashing into the wall....
But seriously, why would someone want to by pass the limit switch that they installed and set up, to purposely damage their machine?
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Some more food for thought - For arguments sake, your machine is all set up and homing limits work and your soft limits work. You hit Ref Home, your machine moves all axis to its home position, again for arguments sake X-0,Y-0 and Z-0, if you decide to move say the X axis past the limit switch, if it is all set up correctly, there is a limiting speed factor built into the set up that will only allow the axis to move at that speed, say 20% of normal operational speed, this will give you time to think and see that if you keep your finger on the jog button it will reach a solid stop, now at 20% speed this will not cause much, if any damage, most it will do is cause the motor to stall, but hopefully the operator will notice this and stop before this happens. Also some folks add a second limit switch after the homing switch to prevent this from happening, also the limits are normally an inch or so from the end of travel to allow for any unexpected failures, i.e. E stop can be pressed before failure occurs. Again this is all documented in the manual. You can also add limit switches on the other end of axis travel and this will give a further measure of protection over and above the soft limit set up. Again all documented.
that's awesome...but can you at least admit that maybe the manual written in 2003 might not be so cut and dried to everyone as it is to you? I mean, don't you think it's a little errr "silly" to refer to this documentation, go to the section on limit switches, and find yourself reading the HISTORY of parallel ports? Then as you're reading on how to set your limit switches, oopsy, it doesn't say how, it says "go to yet another section on setting up mach 3"....so, why I am in the section on setting up limit switches if I have to go to another section to find out how to set up limit switches?
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Ok, this is my xml file
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and this is for the troll who said he doesn't believe I know anything about operating a cnc.....
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But seriously, why would someone want to by pass the limit switch that they installed and set up, to purposely damage their machine?
You are missing the point, the point is that you can if you want to, maybe for maintenance purposes, maybe you have a job that is that bit to big to fit on the machine and you need that extra inch. If you want to bypass it and run the head off the x axis then go ahead but don't come complaining to anyone. Please get this into your head, Mach3 works and works well when it is set up correctly, and that means reading and understanding the manual provided.Ok, maybe, just maybe the manual can be a little confusing but, and this is the BIG but, if you are unable to understand that Mach3 is a software that THE USER has to set up to their own needs and not just work soon as you plug it in, the sooner we can get your issue sorted. It is what it is, it works for thousands of people and they are very happy with it, it does what it says on the tin, nothing more, nothing less and for $175 or so I feel it is excellent value for money.
Right moving on, firstly -
You need to identify the limit switches on your machine, check how they are wired up, how they are connected to the drivers/BOB/controller. Unfortunately I cannot access your XML file as I am at work at the moment, but someone will investigate it for you. We can then start to get this minor problem sorted instead of going around and around in circles. Let's move forward please.
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I think I may have found one of the issues: the switches aren't turned on as limit switches as well as homing switches.....now why it tries to bypass the switches? I dunno....that will take further investigation....
I tell you one thing: I copied my entire mach3 folder onto my design computer and after updating I've noticed something that wasn't in the ports and pins window before: automatic setup of inputs....
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Its a start
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haha let's hope it's the beginning of the end!
Here's the switch info
E21-00A0 Cherry Electric Prod Corp
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/e2100a0.aspx?p=45276648
The white wires are the limit switch wires...can't really tell which one is which unless I undo all the wire covers etc....looks like red is connected to 5V on the input sections of the parallel interface card.....
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It is a bit difficult to see (not complaining about your photography, honestly) but normally the switches are wired in series so only one cable should be there, it looks like they are wired in parallel so you would need 4 inputs to monitor your switches. If this is not set up in Mach3 correctly, then you will have problems. It would be really good if you can get hold of the actual electrical schematic for it, or is that a no go?
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yeah getting a schematic is a no go....but I can tell you it does appear that they are in parallel, series they'd be all connected together in a chain (one positive to another neg and so on) they are all connected independently to the board...
The ONLy way they could be in series is if you can "program" the board to run them in series with dip switches or jumpers.....I'll go back to the shop and look....
edit: no jumpers to control those pins...and I will correct myself: they "could" be wired in series if the printed circuit on the back of the board wired the individual terminals that way.....but I highly doubt that that would be the case....this would make it impossible to wire them in parallel if so desired.....they can easily be wired in series simply by wiring them together THEN attaching them to the terminals, but not the other way around....
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Would be good to get details of the board for further investigation/set up, we can then see on the internet its pinout.
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You should end up with something like this. But we do need the info on the board just to make certain.
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yeah that's how I thought you'd wire them in series....now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you trip one of the limit switches, won't that stop the stepper motors on all axis? or can you control that via mach3?
edit: Ok, I get it now...doh....as a limit switch, you DO want all axis to cease immediately.....
Now, with the switches wired to pin 10 in series, to stop all motion when the limit is reached...how or can you set them up as homing switches? So if I get this right, you can set them ALSO as homing switches so that when you hit "ref all home" it will reach home on z...then back off x amount of the switch...then reach home on x...then back off x amount ....then reach home on y...then back off x amount...with x amount being the amount you set in the homing limits....right?
Now when you ask for info on the board, you're referring to the parallel interface card right?
This is the card on ebay, I've got the complete model number off the photo so I'll google it and see what I can come up with...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Parallel-Port-Interface-Card-C10-CNC-for-MACH3-etc-/272027167798?hash=item3f56152c36:g:OaQAAOSwQTVV-dh-
edit:
here is the info on the board from motiontek:
http://www.motiontek.ca/breakoutboard.html
(second one down)
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Try not to get confused, these are both homing AND limit switches. In the homing sequence you are correct, each axis 'homes' itself and backs of by x, now x has no set value, all Mach3 does is monitor the pin 10 state until it sees the circuit made i,e, the axis has come off the switch. Now during normal operation Mach3 will see the 'homing' switches as limit switches and thus if actuated stops the machine in an out of range state and requires the operator to bring the machine out of that state by manually jogging the effected axis back in range, the same goes for the soft limits which are set up in Mach3 via a numeric value to allow full travel of each axis, this is set up by you when you set the homing limits etc as described in the dreaded manual.
I will try and have a quick look at the board but I have just finished a night shift and have to have a few hours kip before I go to my Mother in laws for new year.
You are getting there, don't forget to read and re read that dreaded manual copy and paste this into your browser (google chrome), page 14 ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf
Heaven knows why that link doesn't work, but type in Mach3 tutorial pdf, look for smaller version, not the full blown one.
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The breakout board/parallel port board looks fine, just follow the instructions in the pdf and you should start to see light at the end of the tunnel.
Off for some shut eye.
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mother in law? for new years? I'd rather read the mach 3 manual lol
that's a dead link again.....
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Yes I don't understand it, but as I said just type in google - mach3 tutorial pdf select the one that has the title mach3 tutorial not the one that has mach3 as manual, it is only 16 pages and is concise and clear.
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Hi Mike,
Looking at your .xml file I notice that you do not have limit switches enabled – only home switches are enabled.
There is also a conflict (not serious but it should be avoided if possible) where X Home and EStop share the same LPT pin number 10. You also need to assign a port# to EStop.
Just to draw your attention to the relevant section of the manual…
• If you implemented configuration two from Section 4.5, you will probably have Home switches on the X, Y, and Z axes. Enable the Home switches boxes for these axes, and define the Port/Pin to which each is connected. If you are combining limits and the Home switch as one signal, then you should enable Limit --, Limit ++, and Home for each axis and allocate the same pin to Home, Limit --, and Limit ++.
Tweakie.
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Hi Mike,
Looking at your .xml file I notice that you do not have limit switches enabled – only home switches are enabled.
There is also a conflict (not serious but it should be avoided if possible) where X Home and EStop share the same LPT pin number 10. You also need to assign a port# to EStop.
Just to draw your attention to the relevant section of the manual…
• If you implemented configuration two from Section 4.5, you will probably have Home switches on the X, Y, and Z axes. Enable the Home switches boxes for these axes, and define the Port/Pin to which each is connected. If you are combining limits and the Home switch as one signal, then you should enable Limit --, Limit ++, and Home for each axis and allocate the same pin to Home, Limit --, and Limit ++.
Tweakie.
Thanks, I noticed that a little earlier this evening....(like maybe 20 minutes ago lol) and since I'm at my design computer (because my cnc computer isn't connected to the net) I haven't enabled them yet...this is after I learned that one switch could be used as a limit switch and a home switch.....
Thanks for the Estop issue....how do I go about assigning a different pin to estop and a port? Frankly, I haven't used Estop in 6 years so if it is completely disabled, I wont' sweat over it....
As I'm reading through the steps to set up the switches, this is one thing that drove me to fury with the company that made my cnc....They have installed the Y home switch at 48" NOT at 0 (my table is 24" x 48"). When I contacted the manufacturer and said why is it there? that is ridiculous and how do I go about moving it to the correct location?
His answer? You dont' want to do that...
My response: why?
His answer: you just dont'
ARRRGHHHHH so for the past 4 years (took me two years to get frustrated enough to pursue it) I've been manually homing my machine because the _____ head won't give me a clear straight answer.....
Anyhow, (this is a question for all):
Is there any "danger" of burning out anything if I disconnect all my switches and wire them in series before changing the settings in Mach3?
I tell you, the first thing tomorrow (actually later on this morning after I too get some "kip" is to physically move that @%^&%#^% limit/home switch to where it should have been all along.....
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By all means move the switch, by all means rewire them so they are in series, just remember to wire them to the correct terminal on the board and set the pins correctly, (10) for your limits and (13) for your E stop, in mach3. There is no danger of magic smoke being released if you do this, unless of course you decide to wire it to mains voltage, but that would be just silly......................................but we all do silly things........................................especially when we are tired!!!!!!!
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By all means move the switch, by all means rewire them so they are in series, just remember to wire them to the correct terminal on the board and set the pins correctly, (10) for your limits and (13) for your E stop, in mach3. There is no danger of magic smoke being released if you do this, unless of course you decide to wire it to mains voltage, but that would be just silly......................................but we all do silly things........................................especially when we are tired!!!!!!!
that's what I figured being as how it is only 5 volts but I've made "magic smoke" before thinking that "hey, what could go wrong"? (but that's hilarious, magic smoke, I'm going to remember that lol)
One other question: on my board: there are two terminals: 5V and a pin number....I should just wire them to pin 10 and ignore the 5v (which they are currently wired to)?
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WOW!, what a thread :)
OP - you say you have CNC experience but do you have CNC machine building experience?? There is a world of difference here and from reading this thread it seems you do indeed know your CNC but not how to build one, just my presumption from the difficulties you are having with how the switches work. In a pre-built machine all this config work is done for you and the $$$$ go up, in DIY you do it yourself and the $$$$ stay down but you have to learn the intricacies of the system in use, think yourself lucky that the machine does use Mach3 and not one of the exotic flavours out there - Mach3 is probably the most flexible and easy to configure system going.
2 years ago I knew 100% of nothing about CNC, Mach3, G-Code or building a plasma cutter, 2 years later I have built two CNC tables and successfully made money out of both (for my own use). Yes I did struggle a lot at the start but the guys on here got me through.
Picking up the wiring from a machine you did not build is going to be tough, but it sounds like you are on the way now, my table only has limit switches, one at each end of travel for all axes, they are wired in series apart from one odd one as I have dual slaved motors on the gantry (Y axis) so i have it set to auto-square the gantry each time it homes.
To stop you overriding the limits and bashing the stops, I think you need two switches - a limit and a home, here the limits would be wired as e-stops only.
Are there no LEDS on your breakout board? these can be invaluable for sorting out wiring - if the switches are wired series only one LED would change for all of the switches, if parallel then a separate LED would change for each switch.
I cant see why the home would be at the top, common practice is bottom-left corner I believe and it does seem odd they said don't go there when you asked about moving it????
I am certain you will get this sorted
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Google C10 PARALLEL PORT INTERFACE CARD and the first result is the PDF for your board, your answer is there................................It does say connect to +5v and corresponding pin. But again read the information, it will help you understand how it all works.
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Google C10 PARALLEL PORT INTERFACE CARD and the first result is the PDF for your board, your answer is there................................It does say connect to +5v and corresponding pin. But again read the information, it will help you understand how it all works.
yeah, see, I would never consider a "pin" to be ground...to me, "ground" is the frame of the machine or a grounding terminal on the board....so if I understand this correctly, I would be connecting the limit switches to pin 10 and 5V terminals?
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That's what it shows on the PDF. Have you a multimeter at hand, so you can check voltages and switches as you work through each switch. What you are looking for (and I am sure someone more experienced than me will correct me) is 5v between +5v and pin 10, when a limit switch is pressed this should drop to 0v, then return to 5v when the switch is released i,e, a low signal, which is what Mach3 is looking for if configured correctly.
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WOW!, what a thread :)
OP - you say you have CNC experience but do you have CNC machine building experience?? There is a world of difference here and from reading this thread it seems you do indeed know your CNC but not how to build one, just my presumption from the difficulties you are having with how the switches work. In a pre-built machine all this config work is done for you and the $$$$ go up, in DIY you do it yourself and the $$$$ stay down but you have to learn the intricacies of the system in use, think yourself lucky that the machine does use Mach3 and not one of the exotic flavours out there - Mach3 is probably the most flexible and easy to configure system going.
2 years ago I knew 100% of nothing about CNC, Mach3, G-Code or building a plasma cutter, 2 years later I have built two CNC tables and successfully made money out of both (for my own use). Yes I did struggle a lot at the start but the guys on here got me through.
You nailed it, I am a user, not a builder....(I believe I said that early on but anyways)....when I started out 15 years ago, I drew products in autocad, loaded them into an app that converted the drawings to gcode, loaded them into the CNC zeroed it, and ran the program....didn't have to worry about the estop, limit switches configuration nothing...
Then when I decided to get a cnc of my own, (cabinet maker) I looked into building and seeing as how it was WAY over my head, I looked at buying a complete system. I looked into $10,000 state of the art systems, outside my price. I saw systems for $1000, err no an idiot pays too much but a fool pays too little. Looked around for machines in the size I needed, found one, talked to the guy, watched videos and photos, and bought a turn key system...OOPSY no it wasn't .....nothing worked the way the 4 or 5 other machines I have used...
Spent 2 hours on the phone, it kind of worked, at least enough so that I could use it....and from then on, I worked around the issues..
The reason I am addressing this NOW is because I'm going to be replacing the BOGUS plastic structural parts with aluminum and replace all the BOGUS design flaws in the machine....Where I got screwed was in the photos and videos, the black parts looked like anodized aluminum....oopsy, no, they are NYLON and I can see the fricken gantry flexing when I run programs.....hell, 2 years ago I replaced, I ********* you not, the PLASTIC gear racks and pinions with STEEL....yes, that's right, PLASTIC gears....(don't laugh) but my 2 x 4 machine was slowly becoming a 2" x 4" machine because I kept breaking teeth.....
I thought I should get the software and electronics sorted before going ahead with the mechanical improvements....I'm doing this now because this is normally a very slow time for me and it took a beating before Christmas, I made about 6 months worth of business in 7 weeks.....
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That's what it shows on the PDF. Have you a multimeter at hand, so you can check voltages and switches as you work through each switch. What you are looking for (and I am sure someone more experienced than me will correct me) is 5v between +5v and pin 10, when a limit switch is pressed this should drop to 0v, then return to 5v when the switch is released i,e, a low signal, which is what Mach3 is looking for if configured correctly.
Yes and Yes...that is what should happen if pin 10 is ground....you can also test this via a ohm meter...the resistance should be low when the switch is closed, and 100% or more when open.....btw, I should have thought of testing it myself.....DOH......the mind is a terrible thing to waste.....
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Simple innit..................Work through it slowly and methodically, one step at a time, take pictures or make drawings of bits you are going to alter so if it is wrong you can put it back to how it was, check, check and check again and if you are unsure double check......................good luck with it, will catch up later.
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One thing is for certain, once you have gained the know-how of the guts of your table, you will enjoy using it 100% more :)
Any pictures of it? It sounds like you were unfortunate to buy a machine more suited to an experienced builder than a user, but overall it's a simple system and if you are woodworking/routing? at least you don't have to sort out RF shielding and grounding too :(
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If you're interested, I can explain
a) Why, after a limit has been hit, there is good reason why Mach3 allows a careless user to jog or move further onto the tripped limit.
b) why, it is a perfectly reasonable option to have a machine set to home to back left rather than front left.
c) why you most likely don't need to re-wire anything or move any switches on your machine and yet still have it do whatever you like.
d) last and probably least, why the ftp links in this thread are "dead".
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If you're interested, I can explain
a) Why, after a limit has been hit, there is good reason why Mach3 allows a careless user to jog or move further onto the tripped limit.
b) why, it is a perfectly reasonable option to have a machine set to home to back left rather than front left.
c) why you most likely don't need to re-wire anything or move any switches on your machine and yet still have it do whatever you like.
d) last and probably least, why the ftp links in this thread are "dead".
sure go ahead...
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btw: I just enabled my limit switches, and home switches...now my x axis tries to home to the right (+ side) instead of the home switch on the left (- side) and it doesn't trip the limit switch when it does, it just grinds into the rail.....
when I reverse the homing, then when I jog to the plus, (right) it goes left and vice versa....
I get the abnormal condition light flashing and on the DROs it says my "head" is at -51 inches on a 24" table
btw, I disabled the e stop, on pin 10 due to the conflict..clicked ok....went back, it was selected again......ayup, Mach3 is easy...easy as tuning a bugatti veyron w10 lol.....
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You can't disable the Estop, or Mach3 will not run. Just set it to any unused input pin number, and toggle the active low setting if it doesn't let you reset.
btw: I just enabled my limit switches, and home switches...now my x axis tries to home to the right (+ side) instead of the home switch on the left (- side) and it doesn't trip the limit switch when it does, it just grinds into the rail.....
when I reverse the homing, then when I jog to the plus, (right) it goes left and vice versa....
I get the abnormal condition light flashing and on the DROs it says my "head" is at -51 inches on a 24" table
This is what happens when you change too many things at one time.
First, you get the machine to move in the correct direction. If you jog to the right, do the DRO's count up (increase). If so, then Mach3 is correct. But if the machine is moving left, go to Config > Homing/Limits and check the reverse box to change direction.
Once it moves in the correct direction, then home the X axis. If it moves the wrong way, toggle the "Home Neg" setting.
Disregard the Abnormal Condition. It's the absolutely worst feature in Mach3. When everything is working the way you want it to, go to the Operator menu, and click "Set Normal Condition". Even better is to remove it from the screen with a screen editor.
There's nothing wrong with the X home switch at the positive end of travel. I have mine setup that way, so that when the machine homes, the gantry is clear of the table so I can setup my parts.
What you want to do, though, is go to Config > Homing/Limits and enter the actual switch position in the Home Offset box. This value is what mach3 sets the DRO's to when you home. So, if you set it to 45, your X zero will be at the left end of the table. When you home, the X DRO will be set to 45.
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If you're interested, I can explain
a) Why, after a limit has been hit, there is good reason why Mach3 allows a careless user to jog or move further onto the tripped limit.
b) why, it is a perfectly reasonable option to have a machine set to home to back left rather than front left.
c) why you most likely don't need to re-wire anything or move any switches on your machine and yet still have it do whatever you like.
d) last and probably least, why the ftp links in this thread are "dead".
sure go ahead...
a) Mach3 was designed to be fully functional with just ONE parallel port. It therefore has just 5 inputs. With just ONE input you can have fully functional limit protection AND homing.
How many inputs do you suppose you'd have to sacrifice just in order for Mach3 to prevent a careless user from jogging the wrong way after a limit trip?
b) Using a 3 axis setup as an example, home does not have to be 0,0,0. It can be any coordinate you like. Having it at the back means on an X gantry machine the gantry is not obscuring the table.
c) Limits can be wired series where they use just one input or in parallel where they can use as many inputs as you have switches if you so choose. Is there any point in the latter? absolutely none. Functionality will be identical.
However you can also use some of those switches to double as homing switches. If you stick with series, all will work just fine but homing will be done sequentially. If you wire parallel then you can choose to set up so axes home concurrently.
d) ftp links do not start with http.
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d) ftp links do not start with http.
The problem here is that this forums messes up ftp links.
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trying to add as an attachment
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d) ftp links do not start with http.
The problem here is that this forums messes up ftp links.
How so?
machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf (ftp://machsupport.com/Docs/Mach3%20Setup%20Tutorial.pdf)
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Good we now have the link working, thanks Stirling and an attachment to download..............:-)
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If you're interested, I can explain
a) Why, after a limit has been hit, there is good reason why Mach3 allows a careless user to jog or move further onto the tripped limit.
b) why, it is a perfectly reasonable option to have a machine set to home to back left rather than front left.
c) why you most likely don't need to re-wire anything or move any switches on your machine and yet still have it do whatever you like.
d) last and probably least, why the ftp links in this thread are "dead".
sure go ahead...
a) Mach3 was designed to be fully functional with just ONE parallel port. It therefore has just 5 inputs. With just ONE input you can have fully functional limit protection AND homing.
How many inputs do you suppose you'd have to sacrifice just in order for Mach3 to prevent a careless user from jogging the wrong way after a limit trip?
b) Using a 3 axis setup as an example, home does not have to be 0,0,0. It can be any coordinate you like. Having it at the back means on an X gantry machine the gantry is not obscuring the table.
c) Limits can be wired series where they use just one input or in parallel where they can use as many inputs as you have switches if you so choose. Is there any point in the latter? absolutely none. Functionality will be identical.
However you can also use some of those switches to double as homing switches. If you stick with series, all will work just fine but homing will be done sequentially. If you wire parallel then you can choose to set up so axes home concurrently.
d) ftp links do not start with http.
1)that doesn't explain why a user would want to move one or more of their axis past the limit switch where by doing so, they will damage their machine.
2)but your "home" should be 0,0,0 on the table, not (in my case) 0,48,0. Once zero'd in, you can move the gantry anywhere you like.
3) funny, mine are wired in parallel and yet home consecutively.....if I understood why you write, they should all home at the same time.....
4) but ftp links are a web address....
My reason for wanting my home at 0,0,0 is because during some 3D long program runs (I have some that take upwards of 12 hours) occasionally a problem will occur and I'll lose "home"....to start machining a 3D items from scratch to reestablish zero is crazy. Re-homing my machine manually (to locate the 3 axis on one spot) more likely than not will result in the 3D item being machined to have parts of it slightly offset than the rest....for eg: if I'm cutting a nose of an animal, if I'm .01 of an inch off, instead of being smooth, the nose bottom and top will be misaligned.
One of the things that occurs is, where I live, the electrical grid is as fragile as a robin's egg. Whenever it is raining, windy, snowing, (and sometimes) sunny, or just because it's thursday, the power will flicker...when it does, even for a millisecond, that causes the machine, and mach3 to become out of sync.....it's gotta so bad I have to check the weather report if I have to run a long highly detailed item...if it's windy? I don't run. If it's snowing? I don't run often times I HAVE to run it on that particular day (due to scheduling) so I'll wait and run it at 12 am after the storm or whatever has passed.....
Yes, I can re-zero manually and it's pretty simple if you're using a 30 deg v engraving bit...but if you're using a ball mill, or a 1/4" 2 flute roughing bit, it could take an hour of trial and error to get it back close, then after the program run is over, 9 times out of 10, alignment is off....
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You can't disable the Estop, or Mach3 will not run. Just set it to any unused input pin number, and toggle the active low setting if it doesn't let you reset.
btw: I just enabled my limit switches, and home switches...now my x axis tries to home to the right (+ side) instead of the home switch on the left (- side) and it doesn't trip the limit switch when it does, it just grinds into the rail.....
when I reverse the homing, then when I jog to the plus, (right) it goes left and vice versa....
I get the abnormal condition light flashing and on the DROs it says my "head" is at -51 inches on a 24" table
This is what happens when you change too many things at one time.
First, you get the machine to move in the correct direction. If you jog to the right, do the DRO's count up (increase). If so, then Mach3 is correct. But if the machine is moving left, go to Config > Homing/Limits and check the reverse box to change direction.
Once it moves in the correct direction, then home the X axis. If it moves the wrong way, toggle the "Home Neg" setting.
Disregard the Abnormal Condition. It's the absolutely worst feature in Mach3. When everything is working the way you want it to, go to the Operator menu, and click "Set Normal Condition". Even better is to remove it from the screen with a screen editor.
There's nothing wrong with the X home switch at the positive end of travel. I have mine setup that way, so that when the machine homes, the gantry is clear of the table so I can setup my parts.
What you want to do, though, is go to Config > Homing/Limits and enter the actual switch position in the Home Offset box. This value is what mach3 sets the DRO's to when you home. So, if you set it to 45, your X zero will be at the left end of the table. When you home, the X DRO will be set to 45.
So just to confirm, Mach3, in all it's glory, doesn't allow you to have your home at ACTUALLY 0? That it is factory set at +24 (in my case) which is the far right of the table? that I have to trick it to think that X0 by putting in a positive number to get it to go to zero? You see, this is counterintuitive to me....if I want my x axis to move to zero, I should be able to put zero in my home position and to get it to be there, I feel I should have to put in a NEGATIVE number (if mach is saying dammit jim, 0 is at +24....).....to get it to be 0....
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You can have home werever you want it, if you want it mid travel, that's fine, you just need to tell Mach3 were your zero is, not Mach3 telling you were it should be. You define your parameters how you want them, how you want your machine to behave, you just need to give Mach3 all the details and it will work how you want it.
Have you thought about a little generator set to power the workshop if your supply is as fragile as that, for a few hundred $ it should pay for itself very quickly....................just a thought.
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If I snap a tool during a run, I simply stop the program, note what line Gcode the break happened, press ref home all, fit a new tool, re zero the tool height, set Gcode to the line of Gcode needed and press run from here, takes about 5 minutes and am back up and running with no problem. As long as Mach3 has all the info it will do want you want it to.
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You can have home werever you want it, if you want it mid travel, that's fine, you just need to tell Mach3 were your zero is, not Mach3 telling you were it should be. You define your parameters how you want them, how you want your machine to behave, you just need to give Mach3 all the details and it will work how you want it.
Have you thought about a little generator set to power the workshop if your supply is as fragile as that, for a few hundred $ it should pay for itself very quickly....................just a thought.
I had one when I lived off the beaten path out of town but since I had to move into town, I'd get noise complaints in about 10 minutes....plus gennie produced electricity isn't the best for computers etc....you'd need an inverter gennie and those are quite pricey....(this is another area I'm not 100% clear on but from what I've read, and gathered from "pros" that gennie electricity is quite noisy and can cause major issues with electronics)....
You're not the first person to say this...in fact, many residents continually ask our politicians about why doesn't the town get our own source of electricity since being on the grid is VERY expensive and HIGHLY unstable.....we're constantly poo pooed. You see, where we are, we get a "delivery charge" tacked on our bill which is equal to, or often higher than the electricity we use.....
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If I snap a tool during a run, I simply stop the program, note what line Gcode the break happened, press ref home all, fit a new tool, re zero the tool height, set Gcode to the line of Gcode needed and press run from here, takes about 5 minutes and am back up and running with no problem. As long as Mach3 has all the info it will do want you want it to.
yeah, that is exactly what I want to be able to do, and it is only logical to be able to do that...
Now, here is another design flaw in my CNC....the builder, in his infinite wisdom, designed it so that under NO circumstances would you break a tool. He has built into the machine flexibility so that the machine will kick off axis etc instead of damaging a tool...even though I pay $2.00 for my ball ends and $3.00 for my straight cutters...it is so bad that when cutting pine, with an 1/8" straight bit, with 1/8" DOC the z axis is thrown off 90 degrees and results in patterning in the piece.....ludicrous (which is why I'm going to be replacing all these parts with something, I dunno, that stays straight plumb and true.....I mean, he even used an aluminum rod to transfer the x axis power to the other side of the table. It flexes under load and causes both sides to be out of alignment slightly....took me quite a while to figure out why I can't cut perfect circles....it's because it is mis-shapened dramatically as the axis rotate around the circle....DOH
edit: and the kicker is, I still break tools.....and the bigger kicker is: the use of plastic isn't that big of a cost saver....aluminum would cost maybe $50 more for the entire machine. Hell, I've recently learned how to make aluminum castings and I could cast all the parts for under $20.00....
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Hi Mike,
You say your switches are wired in parallel and your .xml shows the switches (including EStop) configured as active High. This being the case your switches will be connected as normally open (N.O.) – check your EStop switch to make sure it is open circuit in the run position (they are normally closed circuit in the run position) otherwise it will not work with this configuration (which may explain why it has not been working and no port# had been allocated to it).
Tweakie.
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1)that doesn't explain why a user would want to move one or more of their axis past the limit switch where by doing so, they will damage their machine.
The answer is it would require a system with a lot more inputs than Mach3 was designed with. If Mach3 was designed to do what you're asking for, it's price would put it out of reach of many of it's users.
It is what it is, let it go.
2)but your "home" should be 0,0,0 on the table, not (in my case) 0,48,0. Once zero'd in, you can move the gantry anywhere you like.
No, Home is where your home switches are. 0,0,0 is your origin. Two different things.
So just to confirm, Mach3, in all it's glory, doesn't allow you to have your home at ACTUALLY 0? That it is factory set at +24 (in my case) which is the far right of the table?
No, Mach3 isn't "Factory set" for anything. The person that sold you the machine configured it that way.
As was already mentioned, Mach3 let's you call "Home" anywhere you want.
My reason for wanting my home at 0,0,0 is because during some 3D long program runs (I have some that take upwards of 12 hours) occasionally a problem will occur and I'll lose "home"....to start machining a 3D items from scratch to reestablish zero is crazy. Re-homing my machine manually (to locate the 3 axis on one spot) more likely than not will result in the 3D item being machined to have parts of it slightly offset than the rest....for eg: if I'm cutting a nose of an animal, if I'm .01 of an inch off, instead of being smooth, the nose bottom and top will be misaligned.
After you set your 0,0,0 position, go to the Offsets screen and Save the offsets.
If your power goes out, home the machine, and your 0,0,0 position should be right where it was before.
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Now, here is another design flaw in my CNC....the builder, in his infinite wisdom, designed it so that under NO circumstances would you break a tool. He has built into the machine flexibility so that the machine will kick off axis etc instead of damaging a tool
A more flexible machine can break tools easier than a rigid machine, by allowing a tool to pull itself into the workpiece until it snaps.
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ok see, that's what confuses me...to me, home and origin are one and the same.....
Ok, saving my offsets, instead of making me search through the manual, how would I do that? (btw, this is another piece of terminology that I can't get my head around, why are they called "offsets" when what I am doing is saving my origin....? To me, an offset is the distance from a particular location not THE actual location....
btw: I'm making notes of everything being posted then I'll go to the shop and try again....my CNC computer in my shop doesn't have net access....(just wanted you to know)
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Now, here is another design flaw in my CNC....the builder, in his infinite wisdom, designed it so that under NO circumstances would you break a tool. He has built into the machine flexibility so that the machine will kick off axis etc instead of damaging a tool
A more flexible machine can break tools easier than a rigid machine, by allowing a tool to pull itself into the workpiece until it snaps.
exactly...and it also causes massive amounts of chatter which puts stress on the tool......see, what I've learned is: the company I bought the machine off of is really just a guy in a garage who builds and sells these machines NOT a real builder....I mean, who would even consider using plastic racks and pinion gears? I think I broke teeth on my first week of using it.....
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just one more thing: my pins should be set to active high.....by doing this will I cause any "magic smoke" lol to come out of my electronics?
Because I can't see the switches being normally open, that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it? meaning they would SUPPLY power to the axis when triggered instead of cutting power to the axis......
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It might be wiser to bite the bullet and get rid of it, start afresh with a more robust and modern machine, there seems to be more and more problems getting uncovered that are going to bite your ass the more you try to improve things.
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N/C or normally closed means just that, in a dormant state the switch is closed, therefore makes the circuit, visa versa N/O or normally open means the exact opposite.
High looks for the signal voltage, in this case +5vdc, Low means the opposite it looks for 0v or in this case a switch going fron N/C to N/O - your limit switch being triggered.
No magic smoke will get out setting them high or low, it is just a way of stating what the pins are looking for.
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It might be wiser to bite the bullet and get rid of it, start afresh with a more robust and modern machine, there seems to be more and more problems getting uncovered that are going to bite your ass the more you try to improve things.
well, the electronics all seem to be of reasonable quality and the steppers etc are powerful enough...so since I can't afford to lay out $5000 (or more) for another machine, I'm just going to replace all the flexible crap with aluminum.....from looking at the linear bearing prices and 80/20, I should be able to do it under $500.00.....
Get this: I couldnt' figure out why my signs were "growing" as they got longer....I eventually found the problem: the steel frame that everything mounts too was 1/8" wider at the 48" end than the 0 end lol......I tried to move it into position so the 2 x rails were parallel but couldn't because it is made of 1 1/4" square steel tubing...so I put a pipe clamp on it and cranked it down so the 2 rails are back to being parallel.....that was literally a WHAT THE HELL moment.......
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ok, I've got a bunch of notes....
As they say in the movies:
COVER ME, I"M GOING IN! lol
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Agree, electronics look fine, drivers and steppers fine, Mach3 fine but what it is all connected to is garbage, unfortunate but true.
continue to get the electonics and mach3 sorted and you'll be fine with the rest.
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I see things have moved on a tad but I'll answer some of the questions you posed to my earlier post anyway.
1)that doesn't explain why a user would want to move one or more of their axis past the limit switch where by doing so, they will damage their machine.
I have no idea why a user would WANT to do that - he would have to be a very stupid user indeed. I've explained why Mach3 doesn't PREVENT a user from doing that.
2)but your "home" should be 0,0,0 on the table, not (in my case) 0,48,0. Once zero'd in, you can move the gantry anywhere you like.
There's no "should" about it however much you would like it to be true. Home is a datum - it matters not one jot WHERE it is. It affects NOTHING you can do or can't do.
BTW - this will probably muddy your waters even more but home is very RARELY (if indeed EVER) at 0,0,0. That would mean that your Z is homed toward the BOTTOM of your Z and THAT is plain silly for a variety of reasons.
But look - if you have switches at front left then just set THEM up in the software as your homing switches and call it 0,0 if it makes you happier. (you still really don't want to set Z home to be zero though).
3) funny, mine are wired in parallel and yet home consecutively.....if I understood why you write, they should all home at the same time.....
Read again - I said if they are wired in parallel "you can choose to set up so axes home concurrently".
4) but ftp links are a web address....
They most certainly are NOT.
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Mike what may be mixing you up is the fact that there are 2 sets of coordinates in play with CNC work. You have machine coordinates and Work(user) coordinates. The machine coords are what the machine uses to establish a point in 3d space as a reference. It can be 0,0,0 or ANY point . Once stabliched teh machine then simply counts units to move where you ask it to move. Refhome is teh point the machine goes to and establishes the reference. You can use switches or do this manually. You can still do this manually as accurately as any switch. The switches are just conveinant. Once you reference the machine it uses THOSE coordinates until you shut mach3 down. Then mach3 will loose all reference to the table.
The work side is another completely independant set of coords that YOU the operator use to setup work and reference to for machining parts. Why are they called offsets ? because they are ALL an offset from the original refhome position that the machine uses for reference. The word offset can be either in NOUN form or a VERB. You can "offset" a position or you can use an "offset".
To be able to reset after a work stop ( outage ) all you have to do is Reset teh Work 0,0,0 to what it was originally on the table. To use the centerpoint of the tool is very hard to do. Using the side of the tool is very easy and very accurate. But yo have to realize you are setting it up as an offset so teh centerpoint of the tool will be established.
When you first setup the material i would machine a simple L corner somewhere on teh material that runs up and down and left and right to the table motion. That will give you a reference point for X and Y axis. Record those positions somewhere in case you need them to set back up after a work stop. To reset the table simply move the tool over and touch off the tool to that spot in X and Y then set the dro for each axis to that value. NOW your machine is set back up to the exact point on the material (part). THAT is just one way of doing it there ARE many ways it can be done.
Another would be to use accurate home switches and Work offsets to setup the part then if needed you can simply refhome and go to the correct offset.
However you do it just pick a method and stick with it. ONCE you have figured it out you can restart a dozen times and it will machine correctly each time.
(;-) TP
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Power outages can be handed a variety of ways . The simple way it to use a UPS backup and have Mach3 setup to respond to an outage by stop machining move to a known location and shut down. Then when the ouage is ove simply set the reference again and restart.
Generators CAN be made whisper quiet as well . BUT that would not be cost effective to run a generator for 12 hours of machining on a what if senario.
As to your comment about your locality MAKING their own electricity instead of buying it off the grid. There is NO WAY you could do that as cheap as buying it. NOT EVEN CLOSE . I worked in that industry for years.
(;-) TP
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truncated to save space
The work side is another completely independant set of coords that YOU the operator use to setup work and reference to for machining parts. Why are they called offsets ? because they are ALL an offset from the original refhome position that the machine uses for reference. The word offset can be either in NOUN form or a VERB. You can "offset" a position or you can use an "offset".
To be able to reset after a work stop ( outage ) all you have to do is Reset teh Work 0,0,0 to what it was originally on the table. To use the centerpoint of the tool is very hard to do. Using the side of the tool is very easy and very accurate. But yo have to realize you are setting it up as an offset so teh centerpoint of the tool will be established.
When you first setup the material i would machine a simple L corner somewhere on teh material that runs up and down and left and right to the table motion. That will give you a reference point for X and Y axis. Record those positions somewhere in case you need them to set back up after a work stop. To reset the table simply move the tool over and touch off the tool to that spot in X and Y then set the dro for each axis to that value. NOW your machine is set back up to the exact point on the material (part). THAT is just one way of doing it there ARE many ways it can be done.
Another would be to use accurate home switches and Work offsets to setup the part then if needed you can simply refhome and go to the correct offset.
However you do it just pick a method and stick with it. ONCE you have figured it out you can restart a dozen times and it will machine correctly each time.
(;-) TP
Thanks, I've gathered that after the last couple of days....see, in regards to the terminology, when they say THE offsets, I take that as a noun....
I'd be interested to know how you can set the machine coordinates manually....I don't know how, but my machine coordinates are like -100" so when I tell it to go home (home being 0) I think it's trying to move my x axis 100" to the right to get to zero....wouldn't be a problem if I had a limit/home switch over there.....
Your routed groove is a great idea. What I have done is tack two 1/8" strips of pine to the table to use as my home....only problem is, the machine doesn't know this.....
I agree, centering a 1/4" round bit is difficult...the problem with using the edge is the software I design stuff with, and generate g codes with, uses the centre of the bit as home, and I could program it to use an offset of half the diameter of my first bit, but that would mean I'd have to manually do it for every drawing....considering I do about 500 a year, errr doesn't sound like fun to me haha then it would also depend on what first bit I used. Could be 1/4" could be 1/8" could be a 3/16"....3 mm or 6 mm....
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I'd be interested to know how you can set the machine coordinates manually
You don't. Machine coordinates can only be zeroed by homing the axis.
Homing direction is defined in Config > Homing/Limits with the Home Negative option. When checked, it homes in the negative direction. When unchecked, it homes in the positive direction.
Mach3 travels until it hits a switch, and has no idea where that switch may be.
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Power outages can be handed a variety of ways . The simple way it to use a UPS backup and have Mach3 setup to respond to an outage by stop machining move to a known location and shut down. Then when the ouage is ove simply set the reference again and restart.
Generators CAN be made whisper quiet as well . BUT that would not be cost effective to run a generator for 12 hours of machining on a what if senario.
As to your comment about your locality MAKING their own electricity instead of buying it off the grid. There is NO WAY you could do that as cheap as buying it. NOT EVEN CLOSE . I worked in that industry for years.
(;-) TP
Yeah, the whisper quiet ones are crazy expensive though.....and yes, it is inefficient to run it all the time due to a might have or what if scenario..
As for generating our power locally....initially I would tend to agree....but considering we have (actually a major protest against it) a hydro electric project going in to a local water fall we could really in fact create our own "grid".
In addition, I ran off the grid for almost a year when I ran into financial difficulties. I ran my whole house off a 5000 peak wattage gennie...Now I was very careful about what I could use and when, and I used about half the kwh than when I was on the gird, but due to the price of our electricity, delivery charge, debt retirement, 13% tax, TOS pricing, It cost me about $160 per month in gasoline, vs over $220 for being on the grid....
It was only a 110v gennie so I didn't use the stove, and the fridge was basically unplugged during the day, (because I didn't run it when I wasn't around). I bought a small 110V water heater for my naval showers....I had a wood/electric furnace for heat which worked on convection when there was no power...and it worked quite well frankly.....
Yes, you would "think" that running on the grid would be cheap...but not here.....we pay some of the highest rates in North America, ludicrous considering our total usage is half of what it was 20 years ago and we are almost daily selling electricity to the US at a loss....The auditor general just last week announced that we paid over $13 BILLION dollars too much for our electricity over the past 10 years....at the time they also posted the number of residential customers and I did the math....without accounting for the customers that had large homes/were large consumers and those small homes/small consumers, we paid about $7000 each too much for our electricity....or about $60 per month, to me, that's 33%.....
ANyhow, back to cnc lol....(and yes, electricity prices are a bone of contention with everyone in my province due to us getting continually hosed by the government run power agency)
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What you need to understand about commercial power generation is you have to generate 24 hrs a day 7 days a week whether they need it or not. It is called demand that demand has to be available. Also generators HAVE to run at rated speed to maintan Freq . so there is NO throttling them down off peak. Being on grid you buy blocks of power on the hour to match YOUR demand size. IF you do not need 100 MW at 1 oclock in the morning you do not BUY 100 mw for that hour. You do NOT have that option on self generation. You wont even get close as local generation.
Hydro is nice but it has pitfalls as well. Size is teh biggest consideration with hydro. You also have to account for line losses where you get ZERO return on a large amount of power you produce or buy for that matter.
You would still HAVE to buy standby blocks of peaker power in the event of a component failure on the hydro side grid.
IF you try to isolate your self and do a total Self Gen then their may NOT be any available demain power for you reserved on the grid IF you needed it as backup.
I have never seen a local self gen able to meet Grid power pricing in the real 24/7 world where demand has to be met 24/7.
Back to CNC Unless you TELL it where home is it has no idea UNLESS you are using absolute encoders that maintain their position values 24/7 by battery backups that maintain teh encoders power.
AND what you are refering to as home is probable work home not machine home rememeber those are 2 different things do not get them confused.
As to resetting with an L notch you are NOT resetting 0,0 as per say but you are simply establishing a reference point that is tied to 0,0 . It may be at X24 Y10 or X0Y24 or anywhere.
When you touch off the side of the bit you do not Zero teh DRO only set it to what it read as normal setup was.
ONLY if you used the notch as X0Y0 would you have to apply an offset. When you touch off on X then with a .250 bit you set teh Dro as -.125 and Y it would be Y-.125 that way the center of the tool would be at X0.000 Y0.000 .
Clear as mud yes ? Once you get it locked into your CNC brain then it will make perfect sense. Until then it is just mumbo jumbo.
The way around all this is to ONLY use a machine that was preengineered and Configured to use Accurate switchs or Absolute encoders and Always use a CAM and always establish the Part 0,0 from Cam. But with that you LOOSE most of the flexibilty that CNC offers to you.
Now you get to work (fixture) offsets G54-G59 and larger. These are preset features so you can establish multiple Work home(0,0,0) anywhere on teh table and can call teh offsets into play by just calling teh G# such as IF I set up G55 to X10 Y10 and I was in G54 mode . When I called the G55 then the machine switchs the work home(0,0,0) to the amount of offset I configured for G55 X+10 and Y+10 and THAT position becomes the new work home(0,0,0). THat way you can setup many fixtures locations on the table and simply call then on demand.. You can also use this on teh same part to apply a feature to multiple areas on teh part using the same exact gcode for each feature. Say I was doing a cabinet dorr that had 4 panels that each panel had teh same design. I would only need the actual Gcode for 1 feature then use work offsets to be able to cut those features in each of the 4 panels. NOW you can build libaries of features and call them on demand. Yu no longe have to bild each door as a total unique parts that you have to Draw and Cam each time.
AND that is just the start it gets even better as you learn more of CNC's unique features. BUT you do have to LEARN IT it will not pop into your head in the middle of the night. Some people are capable of learning it faster than others or are more determined to do so (;-).
The total process can be extremely complicated and rightfully so as the process is extremely powerfull . Therefore NO for the most part it can not nor should not be DUMBED down one bit. YOU have to step up to the plate and learn it IF you want to master it.
Just a thought,
(;-) TP
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I understand how "on the grid" power generation works...to a certain degree. If I remember the info during the tour of the Niagra Generating station, I seem to recall the guide stating that in off peak hours, they shut down generators and or divert water away from them.....so at 1 am, on a tuesday, in June, for the past 10 years demand has been 100 MW, why would you run every generator at every generating station at 100%? A sane person would say "to meet that demand I have to run 25% of my generating capacity therefore I can shut down 65% of my generators, I'll keep the extra 40% capacity JIC.....then when demand increases at 5 am, at 3 I'll start to spool up all my generators to be ready when that demand hits.
WHat is 100% LUDICROUS is to keep all your generators running at 100% capacity then sell that excess energy at a LOSS. Then because either I'm an idiot, or the system is flawed, I'll charge all my customers a premium because I have a system that is inefficient.
See, the biggest issue with electricity generation, least in Ontario, is there is NO competition. A "supplier" is given carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want, with NO recourse...
I'll tell you one clue that the system is flawed: back in the day when generating your own electricity was as rare as an albino raccoon, a guy in Kingston Ontario built himself some windmills to power his farm. He disconnected from the grid (for the most part) and then...what the hell is this? He got a bill from Ontario Hydro for the electricity HE was generating....he got a lawyer and discovered that Ontario Hydro had a monopoly contract (which is illegal in Canada) to recoup the revenue from ALL electricity generated in Ontario, whether they made it or not....Well, the bills piled up, and he took Ontario Hydro to court....FINALLY a judge with common sense ruled that Hydro One was operating an illegal monopoly, made them pay the farmer's legal bills, AND pay him 6 cents per KWH for every KWH of energy HE generated which he fed back into the grid....So now, if you DO have solar, wind or geo-thermal electricity generation and you're connected to the grid, Hydro One (the new name) has to pay YOU for that electricity....
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Ok, back to CNC....
I followed all the instructions to the letter
Read the documentation from the links provided.
Watched the tutorial (video) on how to set your switches as home/limit
ARRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH X was still grinding.....
So, I said to myself: self? maybe you'll just have to live with it....No, I'm going to keep at it until I figure out what the royal duck is going on. But before I muck about trying to get it set up where I DON'T want Y home to be, I'm going to move the switch to the other end. Not to get into details about that but it took a little while but I got'er done.
Followed the instructions again, step by step, watched the video, paused it after I make the changes....
X axis was STILL grinding...what the (*(*@%^%@^%#^%& is going on? I rechecked the settings watched the videos again, checked, rechecked, checked again,...then WATCHED closely as the axis were moving..........WELL, part of my z axis "head" was hitting the frame before it hit the x switch. So I put at "probe" on the Y axis so that the part that was preventing x from hitting the frame, didn't.....voila everything is working (well, I still have to figure out how to get the axis off the switches after homing them)........
So, remember when I said the company who built my machine really had to be just a nob in a garage? Remember I said he had no real engineering or design experience? How there were many design flaws in my system mecanics? Well I thought, could it be that FROM THE FACTORY, something was hitting the frame when the switch was at the other end?
Sure enough, when I moved everything to the other end, a part of the x axis WAS hitting the frame before the switch so the SWITCH WAS NEVER CONTACTED!
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NO you will NOT just shut down and restart large power station generators . LARGE generators do NOT tolerate load shifting very well. Remember you HAVE to maint frequency precisely . Picking up and dropping off load can damage large generators so they nomally do NOT like power spikes or load drops. It is easy to collaspe the entire LOCAL grid if you suddenly drop a large generator off line or try to pickup a large load all at one time.
Some companies even use LARGE resistor banks to use as load banks and maintain load on teh generators under light demand periods YEP just burning up Money heating the air. But for the most part they have no other options but risk collasping teh local grid which has at times collasped a regional grid.
That is why they make peaker generator stations now to help balance loads under unique demand periods of heavy loads and light loads. These generators are normally Natural Gas fired turbines and small generators and can be brought online and offline as needed to balance loads BUT they are very expensive to run compared to power plant units. So peaker power is very expensive to buy or produce.
(;-) TP
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So, what you're saying is, my idea of protesting getting raped by our power provider would work?
My protest would be to organize everyone in town at a given time, to turn on every light, crank up their baseboard heaters, turn on every burner on their stove, crank the oven up to 500 degrees, then go to their break panel, then switch their main breaker off......then 5 mins later flick it on....then 5 minutes later flick it off....
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Ok, looked through the manual, watched the video on homing and can't find where I tell mach3 to back off from the homing switches by x amount...
Anyone have any ideas?
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just one more thing: my pins should be set to active high.....by doing this will I cause any "magic smoke" lol to come out of my electronics?
Because I can't see the switches being normally open, that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it? meaning they would SUPPLY power to the axis when triggered instead of cutting power to the axis......
According to your .xml your switch input pins are set to Active High.
Maybe a good idea to connect a multimeter (set to ohms) across each switch to see if they are N.O. or N.C. ?
Tweakie.
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Ok, looked through the manual, watched the video on homing and can't find where I tell mach3 to back off from the homing switches by x amount...
Anyone have any ideas?
You don't, this feature is programmed in.
When you have a home/limit switch set correctly and issue a home command on that axis, the axis should move towards that switch at a rate you set on homing/limits, when it hits the switch the switch opens and mach stops movement, reverses and moves away until the switch closes again, thats it as far as i understand things.
When you said earlier your axis was hitting the frame before the switch does seem to indicate a very poor build/design as that should never happen, glad you got that sorted.
As for positioning the work, at switch on I home my table to set machine co-ords to zero on x/y as z is not homed on a plasma. Then I place my material wherever and align the cutter with the corner of it and zero my work co-ords, now my machine knows where its axes end and also where my material lies. In my Cam software I have an image of that sheet and I place the parts to cut exactly where I want them, as the sheet gets used up, I just remove the cut operation from previous parts but leave the part on the sheet so i can see where material has been removed previously.
It sounds long-winded but in reality it means I can use my material more effectively by keeping part-used sheets for smaller jobs and fill in the gaps when needed later, all the sheets are numbered as are the cut files to match, all the jobs are placed relative to the corner of the sheet which i use to set my work zero - 0/0.
I have no idea what cam solution you run but with your fixed strips of wood this method might work nicely for you too probably. I can take a part-used sheet off and reset the entire machine, replace the sheet and continue using it very easily as long as i set the work co-ords accurately.
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Glad you are making progress Mike.
OK , you remember the little diagram I posted about limit switches, put one probe of your multimeter on one cable and the other probe on the other end of the cable and press each switch in turn, each time you press a switch it should read zero, and therefore it should beep or read 100% when no switch is pressed indicating a complete circuit. Is that how you have it???? If not check each limit switch, it should be moulded into the casing what each leg is - COM = common, N/C = normally closed and N/O = normally open.
Lets make sure this circuit is working correctly before we jump into settings.
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LOL: a few thousand posts back our man posted a data sheet with a clear as day picture of the switch terminal layout. Just look at which freakin' terminal the wire's connected to and compare it to the pic.
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LOL: a few thousand posts back our man posted a data sheet with a clear as day picture of the switch terminal layout. Just look at which freakin' terminal the wire's connected to and compare it to the pic.
Come on, that makes it far too simple. ;D
Tweakie.
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It suprising how often the smallesr simplest things get over looked and cause hours of untold grief. The amount of times i get called to breakdowns (maintenance technician) were, after asking the machine op is it switched or the likes, i find that it was not plugged in, or switched on or the e stop was in, after showing the op the error you get replies like, well it was plugged in yesterday, or i didnt think to look...............ARGHHHHHHH
Never overlook the simplest of things. Thats all i ask.
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LOL - you're both right of course - but given the way this thread's gone so far, aren't you both making the rather rash assumption that Mike's view of Ohm's Law is the same as everyone else's? >:D
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yeah, they are wired N/C so 5 vdc is constantly going through them so the x'd out column in the active low settings column makes sense now...
but all is well in Denmark....it works....I do blame myself for a lot of these headaches, I had so many issues with the poor design I should have KNOWN to look for the issue first. I can't tell you how many times wiring has been pinched between axis and or ripped out because it got caught on the gantry. I have numerous bungie cords holding things out of the way.....
What kills me is he wrote to me about a year ago trying to sell me a new gantry for $1000 US ($1400 CAN).....I feel like writing him back and say "why would I pay you $1000 to correct flaws in your machine design when I can personally correct ALL the design flaws myself for under $400 CAN?
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Ok, looked through the manual, watched the video on homing and can't find where I tell mach3 to back off from the homing switches by x amount...
Anyone have any ideas?
You don't, this feature is programmed in.
When you have a home/limit switch set correctly and issue a home command on that axis, the axis should move towards that switch at a rate you set on homing/limits, when it hits the switch the switch opens and mach stops movement, reverses and moves away until the switch closes again, thats it as far as i understand things.
When you said earlier your axis was hitting the frame before the switch does seem to indicate a very poor build/design as that should never happen, glad you got that sorted.
As for positioning the work, at switch on I home my table to set machine co-ords to zero on x/y as z is not homed on a plasma. Then I place my material wherever and align the cutter with the corner of it and zero my work co-ords, now my machine knows where its axes end and also where my material lies. In my Cam software I have an image of that sheet and I place the parts to cut exactly where I want them, as the sheet gets used up, I just remove the cut operation from previous parts but leave the part on the sheet so i can see where material has been removed previously.
It sounds long-winded but in reality it means I can use my material more effectively by keeping part-used sheets for smaller jobs and fill in the gaps when needed later, all the sheets are numbered as are the cut files to match, all the jobs are placed relative to the corner of the sheet which i use to set my work zero - 0/0.
I have no idea what cam solution you run but with your fixed strips of wood this method might work nicely for you too probably. I can take a part-used sheet off and reset the entire machine, replace the sheet and continue using it very easily as long as i set the work co-ords accurately.
Yeah, I've done that too, (left a sheet on the table, with the workpiece zero'd in via the offsets and then cut pieces out of it). The main reason I wanted to get the homing sorted it is due to power fluctuations which basically erased my home every time it happened, or losing home when an axis skips a tooth for various reasons, or whenever I lost the offset.
Now that I have a constant set point of reference (home), whenever this happens, I can reset and not muck up my work.....that picture of the sign with the eagle and bear on it, the eagle took about 12 hours of machine time, the bear about 6 and the whole sign total about 20...the whole time a big project like that runs my stomach is (was) in knots praying that nothing went wrong......because I'd have to start all over again from scratch because the eagle's head is now 1/8" offset horizontally and 1/8" vertically because of a power blip....
One thing through this whole exercise: now I feel totally (or at least MORE) comfortable pulling out all the electrics when I replace the mechanicals.....
I will say a great big thanks for those who helped....
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LOL - you're both right of course - but given the way this thread's gone so far, aren't you both making the rather rash assumption that Mike's view of Ohm's Law is the same as everyone else's? >:D
Barbossa: ......... and secondly, you must be a pirate an electrician for the pirate's code Ohm's Law to apply and you're he's not. And thirdly, the code Ohm's Law is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner Mr. Stirling. :)
;D
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yeah, they are wired N/C so 5 vdc is constantly going through them so the x'd out column in the active low settings column makes sense now...
Glad it makes sense to you because unless you have signal inverters in there somewhere which you haven't mentioned, then it makes NO sense at all.
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why are you being such a troll? you get off on it or something?
If I understand the terminology correctly, if they were wired normally open, then the setting would need to be active low...since there is always current going through them and they are wired normally closed, active high is the correct setting...
No inverters necessary....
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LOL - you're both right of course - but given the way this thread's gone so far, aren't you both making the rather rash assumption that Mike's view of Ohm's Law is the same as everyone else's? >:D
And what has Ohms law got to do with it, or any law come to that. The guy is/was having difficulties, yes the thread went on and on, but it got resolved. The fact that a global moderator has to ridicule or belittle someone baffles me???? Or is it ok for you to do that????
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If I understand the terminology correctly, if they were wired normally open, then the setting would need to be active low...since there is always current going through them and they are wired normally closed, active high is the correct setting...
This is where you are misunderstanding the description of Active HI / LOW.
All switches NC in series to one pin is holding the pin HI while in the normal running condition.
If that input pin ever goes LOW, tripped switch or broken wire ...., that will activate the EStop. Hence, Active LOW.
If all switches were connected NO in parallel to one pin, the pin would be LOW while running normally. Making the pin HI would activate the EStop. Hence, Active HI.
NC and Active LOW is best as it accounts for any break in the circuit making it a bit safer.
Hope this helps,
Russ
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yeah, that's what I gathered from reading (and partially lol) understanding the manual....
But mine are wired in parallel and N/C.....hence why active low is not checked in the setting box....(I guess lol not 100% on this)...but it works, that's the main thing! :-)
When I re-build, I'll wire up all the switches in series as Stew drew in the wiring diagram....and change the settings....
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All parallel AND N/C can't work, sorry.
The only time that circuit could function is when ALL the switches were opened at one time.
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Hi Dave,
I think these are to individual pins. Parallel is a moot point.
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Hi Dave,
I think these are to individual pins. Parallel is a moot point.
D'oh! I was only going on what was written ;)
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Hi Dave,
I think these are to individual pins. Parallel is a moot point.
exactly....
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Hi Mike,
So what exactly is it that you have done to cure the problem ??
Tweakie.
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Enabled the limits, after I asked and he told me that they were, even though they were not. :)
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Enabled the limits, after I asked and he told me that they were, even though they were not. :)
Thanks Gerry,
That is exactly what you asked him in reply #2 (he could have saved 14 pages of other peoples time).
Tweakie.
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Hi Mike,
So what exactly is it that you have done to cure the problem ??
Tweakie.
enabled the limit switches, configured them correctly, enabled the home switches and configured them correctly, move the Y homing switch to the logical location, reversed the homing of the x axis so it moves in the right direction, enabled the z axis limit switch, enabled automatic limit override so I can easily move off the limit switch.....I think that's about it....
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Enabled the limits, after I asked and he told me that they were, even though they were not. :)
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls but show me by quoting my post where I said specifically in answer to you that the limit switches were enabled? I went to the 4th page and couldn't see where I answered YOU about limit switches.....
Furthermore, I really didn't care about limiting the travel of my axis, I was more concerned about homing....
Even after enabling the switches, as the HELPFUL user Stew pointed out, I still had issues with them going the wrong way and grinding into the limits...
If the two of you want to rag on about how much of YOUR time I wasted, no one forced you to read these posts....you could have skipped out 14.5 pages ago....I think ger21 just likes to prove to people how superior he is.....
You see, I have thanked those who helped me work out the issues, and personally thanked stew for his help in a personal message....if you don't want to help, then don't...
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Mike,
I think you have a major attitude problem - I take exception to you calling members of this forum Trolls. Perhaps an apology from you would be in order.
Have you actually purchased a Mach3 license in you own name or are you continuing to use somebody else's license file. ??
Tweakie.
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Just a heads-up...
Until such time as Mike's license situation has been satisfactorily resolved with NFS he has been excluded from the forum.
Tweakie.