Machsupport Forum

G-Code, CAD, and CAM => G-Code, CAD, and CAM discussions => Topic started by: Herri on October 11, 2015, 09:39:35 AM

Title: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 11, 2015, 09:39:35 AM
I seem to have a problem with my X & Y axis. Although I have been cutting small pieces of ply I didn’t notice a problem until recently.

It seems as if my X & Y are the wrong way round.
The home position is shown in the attachment
The Y is the longest part of my table and the X is the shortest ie width.

When I press the UP arrow the Y axis moves along the longest part of the table and the SIDE arrows, the X axis; width of the table.

When I look at the window in Mach3 and press Start, the cutter moves to the right in the window but to the left on the table.
The height is the width and vica versa.
Its as if my table is turned by 90 degrees.

The attachments show this:
In CAD the drawing is correct. When I come to cut, left is now right. I can of course turn the piece over when it is finished but there must be another way.

If I change the pins in the Motor Output settings, I reverse the X & Y but then the mechanical stops are at the wrong sides.

I am totally confused – anybody know what I am doing wrong
Thanks
David
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 11, 2015, 09:42:41 AM
I can't seem to attach anymore images
I get the message :image already in use'
What I am doing wrong? ???
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 11, 2015, 10:41:08 AM
Here are the images
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 11, 2015, 04:20:24 PM
Go into Mach3 >> config >> ports & pins >> motor outputs tab >> X axis, and change the "dir active low" to whatever the opposite of what it is now. and that should sort it out ...

... note the longest part will still be your Y axis and the shortest travel will still be your X axis... but it will cut the part the right way around.


Alternatively ..... If you want the longest travel axis to be your X axis and the shortest travel  axis to be your Y axis, swap the pins over (but you will still need to flip the X axis "dir active low" status from whatever you have set now.

(you will also need to change the Slave Axis setting too >>> Config >>> Slave Axis if you have a slaved axis on your present Y (longest travel axis).

Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on October 12, 2015, 02:41:34 AM
There are always exceptions but it is usual to configure a machine’s axes with relation to the position in which the operator will stand.
The axis moving left – right being the X axis and the axis moving toward – away being the Y axis.
The physical direction of each axis is defined in Mach3 according to the direction the tool moves over the work.
The tool movement to the right of the work is +X
The tool movement to the left of the work is -X
The tool movement to the back of the work is +Y
The tool movement to the front of the work is –Y
And just for completeness…
The Z axis movement with tool moving away from work is +Z
The Z axis movement with tool moving towards the work is –Z
And X0 , Y0 is in the front left hand corner.

Please check out the Mach3 Manual for more details. http://www.machsupport.com/help-learning/product-manuals/

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 12, 2015, 11:19:35 AM
Thanks for the replies. Maybe I just see it wrong. I have spent all day today playing with the settings as suggested.
I do understand it all better but not altogether. If you look at my first image. My table is at its home position. The machine coordinates read zero. X increases as it moves away and Y increases as it moves right.
If I reverse the X axis, the mechanical stop is at the wrong end. That is the way the machine should be built according to the instructions.
Look at the two other images. When I convert a CAD file to CAM, the item looks the same (left-right etc) When I open the file in Mach3 and look at the tool path window, its still the same.
I move the cutter to the wood, then zero the 3 axis. I then recalulate the tool path.
When I start cutting, the cutter moves off in the opposite direction as in the window. The zero corner is bottom left in the window but bottom right on the machine in relation to the work piece. This means the piece is cut from the back and needs turning over when cut.
Maybe this is how it is with everyone, as I suppose its not a problem to turn the wood (in my case) over.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 11:28:29 AM
Reverse the x axis direction AND swap the axis step and direction pins and it should be right.



Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 12, 2015, 12:53:18 PM
If I do that, the X homes to the other side, where there is no switch.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
Let's start at the beginning...

If you flip / switch the dir state only for the x axis it will try to home to the top of the short axis (looking at your photo above, say the top of the photo, but the Y will remain at the left hand side)

Now switch the pins for each axis, so that the pins for Y become x both dir and step)

Now when you home the machine, the Y axis should go to the left hand side (given it was at the top), but the x axis will go to the top (given it was at the left hand side).

Now flip the dir pin for the x axis (that was the Y axis)

And it should home to the bottom left hand side.

Did it work?
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 12, 2015, 01:41:46 PM
Afraid not. It still tries to home at the top (no switch)
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 01:45:32 PM
Can you post your XML file as a txt file, one that would match the photo at the top and let me load it in Mach

Running out of ideas

Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: BR549 on October 12, 2015, 02:31:29 PM
You are trying to do TOO many things at one time. Take it ONE step at a time. Work with 1 axis at a time(X). Get it to run the SAME as you see it in the toolpath display. Then switch the homing direction to make it home to the home switch > each of these things are seperate issues and are configured seperately. When you get the ONE axis running correctly then go to the next axis (Y) and complete the setup the same way. Set teh direction of travel correctly THEN set the homing direction correctly. Same thing for Z.

Also rememeber that the home switch position  and the actual machine home CAN be two different things or it can be the same. it all depends on HOW you set them up.

(;-) TP

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 03:01:02 PM
Right, think I've found the answer....  (basically we've been looking at the machine the wrong way around).

If you have a look at this PDF (machine parameters) (https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/images/Service/machine-parameters-20130601.pdf)

2/3rds of the way down the page it says (and has an illustration to the RHS):
reference switch at the end (X-axis) negative
reference switch at the end (Y-axis) positive
reference switch at the end (Z-axis) negative


Now if you have a look at this PDF (connection diagram) (https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/images/Service/connection-diagramm-v1.pdf)

It confirms your XML is right as far as pins and motors are concerned (one caveat... you may need to untick the change the pin direction for the "Y" axis from "Dir LowActive")



Now given you have a "positive" Y Axis homing....

You need to go into CONFIG >>> Homing / Limits and change the "Y" Axis to untick "Home Negative" .... given you have a positive homing for your machine....


Now whilst within the Homing and Limits you will note that the "Z" axis is unticked "Home Negative"..... but if you read the PDF again it says .... reference switch at the end (Z-axis) negative   .... now if you tick the "home negative" box... the machine is going to drive down to the cutting table.....

So I suspect you will need to go back into Config >>> Ports and Pins >>> Motor Outputs and change the Dir Active to "Dir Low Active".



I Would suggest that you jog the machine into the middle , then press the home button ...
The Z axis should go up (if not, change the Dir Pin "LowActive" status)
The X (short axis) should go towards to Home switch (if not change the Dir Pin "LowActive" status)
And the Y (long axis) should go towards the Home switch (if not change the Dir Pin "LowActive" status)


Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 03:05:35 PM
.... To be fair after having a look at you first photo again it does say "+Y" and "+X" on it so it should have been clear that it was a negative X homing and positive Y homing machine.....

Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 03:47:25 PM
Also.... having a look at your XML file.... And Motor Tuning, you have:

X Axis 200 steps / mm // 2023.8 mm / minute //  165 mm/s/s
Y Axis 200 steps / mm // 1567.8 mm / minute //  190 mm/s/s
Z Axis 200 steps / mm // 1000.2 mm / minute //  250 mm/s/s

And, if you again have a look at this PDF Machine Parameters File (https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/images/Service/machine-parameters-20130601.pdf) (at the top) you will see:
axis resolution   ---- 400 steps / rotation
stepping mode ---- 1/2 stepping mode
distance / rotation ---- 2mm / rotation
speed (fast) ---- 30mm / sec
shortest ramp / slope ---- 200 ms  [suspect this should read ... mm/s/s]

I'd suggest  that maybe your velocity and acceleration settings are wrong....
30mm/s will give you an axis acceleration to 1800mm/min, and the acceleration should be 200 mm/s/s (although you probably want to try that as some of your axis have slower acceleration)

Also if you look at the speed (reference drive search) in that same PDF, it lists x/y/z as 15mm/sec .... hence on the CONFIG >>> Homing / Limits Page, you probably want to change the Homing Speed (on the Right hand side) to ... 25% for all 3 axis given 15mm/sec / 30mm/sec = 25%


Also if you go into the CONFIG >>> General Configuration Tab >>> 2nd Column from the Right Hand Side, I'd suggest change the "Look Ahead" to 200 lines
... there is a bit of guidance in this document as well as with (http://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3_CVSettings_v2.pdf) other settings like "CV and angles etc".



Also .... if you go back into this Pins Configuration Document (https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/images/Service/connection-diagramm-v1.pdf) and Compare it against your CONFIG >>> Pins & Ports >>> Inputs + Outputs... you may see some differences   (note if you use the probe for tool length you may be using the wrong pin.... I'd suggest maybe spending a little time considering how you have wired it up and whether you want to set it up as they have listed .... if you have a working machine ... don't fix what is not broken  ... changing these settings may require you to make physical wiring changes.




Hope it helps

Rob

as noted elsewhere don't change too much at once.... or you'll go from a working machine to no machine ;-)
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 12, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Much appreciated Rob. I wish I had seen that file earlier. I got my original XML from Stoney (after having to beg for it)
I assumed all would be well.
I shall take your and BR549's advice and do one thing at a time.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 03:57:27 PM
There is also this one too which may be of help (https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/images/Service/EN-Operating-Instructions-SC2-v2.pdf) (little more detailed maybe)
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 12, 2015, 07:56:03 PM
Ohhh... Referencing the Y axis will need to be set to 598mm where as the other two axis reference to zero... Denoted at the bottom of that machine specs file linked to above ... Because your Y axis has a positive home it needs a positive home reference too

Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 13, 2015, 07:15:03 AM
Part 1
I changed everything as you suggested and the directions were all as per diagram.
The homing was also correct.
When I came to cut, the Z-axis went the wrong way.
In the tool path window the arrow went down when it should go up.
The only way I could find to correct it, was to reverse the Z back to how it was (down is now minus)
It still homes correctly and my initial problem of things being turned is now past.

What does not seem to work anymore is the Soft Limit button, which no longer reacts to pressing.

Part2
I changed the steps to 400. It went very fast, compared to previously. I cannot find the Stepping Mode or Distance/Rotation etc. I have looked in the Mach3 file but cannot find any reference.
I have now changed it back to 200 until I know what I am doing.

Your last comment about referencing the Y axis has confused me. Where do I do this. Is this the Soft Limits on the homing page? I have these set to 422 X and 598 Y.

As you may have noticed I am a complete novice. I would love to buy “CNC/Mach3 for dummies” but Amazon do not stock it.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 13, 2015, 07:49:48 AM
Your steps setting was right at 200 steps per mm, the acceleration (in my opinion) was wrong, and should be set to 200, and the maximum velocity for all three axis should be 1800 mm / min ( same for all three axis)


Referencing the Y axis...
Your Y axis has a positive home position... So when you ask it to home,
- the Z-axis should go up, trip the home switch, and change the DRO (digital read out) to zero,
- then the  X-axis should go left, until it hits the home switch and sets the DRO to zero,
- then the Y-axis will go up the table, until it trips the DRO but instead of setting it to zero, sets it to "598" mm 2nd to last row Right hand side, bottom of this page https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/images/Service/machine-parameters-20130601.pdf

These settings are done in the CONFIG >>> Homing / Limits page http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/14/07/22/66/home_l10.jpg

The 5th column along is the default home position setting (basically when your machine trips the home switch and resets the DRO, it resets it to the number entered in these boxes.... so for X and Z, you want "0", but for Y you want "598".



Homing the Z axis... this is an optional one if you ask me.... your Z axis is up side down..... if you look at the above PDF picture, it says the X-Axis is negative homing (i.e. it goes up to the gantry, and sets the DRO to zero)... so a positive axis move is downwards (not upwards)....

Yes this is confusing for me too.... as minus / negative Z is always down for me ...   .... the logic is basically if you now touch off your workpiece to set your cutter length / zero the axis at the cutting plane.... a positive cut will be a cut into the workpiece (note changing this will affect whatever software you are using to generate your G-code....   ... hence if you have a working machine and it makes sense to you.... you probably don't want to change it, but just consider there is another way of looking at things....


Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 13, 2015, 10:06:25 AM
It is exactly as you say: When homed, the Y reads 598. I have inserted 598 in Home Off.
How do I set my Soft Limits?
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 13, 2015, 11:09:12 AM
Going back to the CONFIG >>> LIMITS page http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/14/07/22/66/home_l10.jpg

If you enter the following in:
Axis ----Soft Max ---- Soft Min ----- Slow Zone -------- Speed
X ------- 422 ----------- 0 -------------- 100 ----------------- 25%
Y ------- 599 ----------  0 -------------- 100 ----------------- 25%
Z ------- 0 -------minus (-) 82 -------- 30 ------------------ 25%

and press the home button (locate the machine in the middle of the bed + mid z height... so it does not crash into anything...)

It should do as intended.

Rob

Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 13, 2015, 12:46:30 PM
That done and it all works !
Thanks Rob, you are a star.


David
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 13, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
No problem David, happy machining.

Note you may need to tune the z axis soft stop relative to your bed, and spindle or router and presuming you have a spoil board...

Consider this that your z axis has 82mm of travel, but by the time you have a router or spindle in the tool holder, and a downward projecting chuck, and a spoil board on your bed, the effective travel distance will be less... Then you add a cutter to the spindle or router, now your z axis travel is very much reduced

Hence if you told the machine to decend 80mm it will most definitely crash into the spoil board

Hence you may need to tweak the soft limit for the z axis, to something like 1mm below the spoil board with a cutting tool installed.

Someone may be able to give some better guidance, because I'm sure that you could via script reset the z axis soft limit every time you install a new tool, and use g31 to set tool offsets

Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 13, 2015, 01:55:29 PM
I'll bear that in mind, thanks.
I've learnt  a great deal these last two days and I am sat here reading the Mach3 guide and actually starting to understand it.

David
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 15, 2015, 10:35:33 AM
I have done quite a bit these last few days. A cuple of small issue cropped up today.

1. The Yellow Abnormal conditions LED in Mach3 came up.
It says “Axis are not refed to normal”

2. When I press “Go to zero” after cutting, the Z axis goes up to its physical stop and the Reset button lights, the machine obviously stops.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 15, 2015, 11:11:28 AM
Copied from here: https://en.industryarena.com/forum/axis-not-refed-normal-conditions--53149-2.html

For those of you still fighting with this, I think I got it figured out:
Assuming your machine works perfectly well and you still get that annoying Yellow light "Abnormal Condition" .....clicking on it gives the hint "Axis are not Refed to Normal Condition"
....You need to inform Mach3 what a normal condition is for your setup:
Start-up Mach3 and click [Ref All Home] when all axes have homed to their limit switches, click drop-down menu [Operator] and select [Set Normal Condition]
Mach3 should now accept this state as the "Normal Condition" and you should have a Green light indicating such when the machine has been home referenced.
Worked for me!
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 15, 2015, 11:26:29 AM
Thanks, I've done that. I did notice the Yellow LED flashed just before the Z reached its home but went out again.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 15, 2015, 03:43:23 PM
Item 2 is it not triggering the soft limit?

You may need to change to upper soft limit to +1 (ie 1mm above zero as zero is the home switch...?

Someone else may have a view
Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 15, 2015, 04:19:12 PM
I'll have to wait until tomorrow to try that. My wife has painted the stairs, so I cannot get to my room.
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 15, 2015, 04:38:32 PM
what CAM software are you using?

(to answer one of your earlier questions, no I don't have a stepcraft... I've a home built plasma, with a few other bits .... needed to be able to be packed away and assembled on demand, and I'm awaiting a 3040 frame kit to arrive for some PCB / aluminium work). 

What materials are you cutting & what are you making?

Rob
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 15, 2015, 05:11:56 PM
I am using DEVCAdCam as I am into RC model aircraft.
I have been cutting Lite Ply upto now and intend to be cutting up to 8mm ply.
Possibly, I will also try some thin alu.
I am buidling a quite large glider tug. 2.70m wingspan with a 62cc petrol engine.
David
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: Herri on October 15, 2015, 05:16:24 PM
Whats the advantage of cutting with plasma? Is it justthe possible thickness?
What will you build?
David
Title: Re: Problem with my X & Y
Post by: robertspark on October 15, 2015, 05:36:05 PM
Wow that's a big glider!.... Never heard of DEVCAd but the website looks interesting.

Plasma is for steel, aluminium, stainless ... basically anything metallic (I've heard of glass being cut too... but never tried it [not likley to])  Not my machine... but very similar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhV4oLOHEg  

I have a small plasma and can cut up to 6mm plate... but I'm looking to upgrade a little maybe in the future (speed of cut + quality of cut with a newer machine).

I have an expensive hobby with Landrovers (I've ended up with my own R&D department... haha), so am keen to build my own parts, given every time I ask someone to make me something (or build something) I don't end up with what I asked for.... trust no one believe nothing (I use CAD for a living to drawing is easy for me... the thing that always took the time was the making of the parts and getting alignment etc... now I go from idea to part in minutes all welded up and complete)

I use sheetcam http://www.sheetcam.com/ ... which you can use for all other manor of things (not just plasma)... basically all you need is a drawing and import that.... the only thing is it does not do 3D only flat objects (there is a 4th Axis option but that is only for plasma).

Rob