Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Mike K on July 17, 2015, 11:40:14 AM

Title: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 17, 2015, 11:40:14 AM
I've posted this in the CNC Zone forum and got a pretty limited response so I thought I would try this forum.

I have a laser welder that I added a motion system to. Gecko steppers and 540 box, Mach 3 and a lot of machining to get it all together and working. Everything worked fine, but the mouse and keyboard were pretty bad as input devices.

I read some good things about the pendants that Vista CNC sells and ordered their P2S because it has the ability to command "cycle start", "stop", "rewind", etc.

The pendant is pretty nicely made. The housing is plastic but sturdy, the switches work nicely and the MPG works just like the ones on $100K cnc machines.

But I've run into a glitch that REALLY needs to be fixed before I can use it.

I have a program to laser weld a part that requires the use of filler wire. This means that stop points (M1s) are needed in the program to get the wire in place before it starts the feed move.

If I don't use the pendant it feeds as it should through the whole program whether optional stop is on or off.

If I use the pendant while optional stop is on, it works as it should until I use the pendant cycle start to restart the program after an optional stop. That's when the feed moves become rapid moves. Once this happens it stays that way regardless of whether the commands come from the pendant or keyboard. The only way I've found to restore it is to exit the program and re open it.

If I use the pendant with optional stop off, everything is fine. It seems like the combination of optional stop in Mach 3 and cycle starting from the pendant is where the trouble is.

It also does this with M0 stops.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

I sure hope that someone has an answer!

Mike



Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 17, 2015, 01:32:18 PM
OK  so what do you have going on AFTER the M01 ? Is there a macro used to feed in the wire ?  Something is switching the Modal G01 to a G00 . I have never seen Mach3 do that on a cycle start call.

IF you use the keyboard Cycle start or screen Cycle start  instead of the pendant Cycle Start does it do the same thing ??

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 17, 2015, 01:52:56 PM
Thanks for responding.

There is no macro. The wire is fed by hand.

Using the keyboard or mouse works fine. No problem.

A typical program segment is:
G0G90G17G54X-.102Y0.Z0.A0.
M01
M8P.4 (argon on)
M3P.4 (laser on)
G1X.102F2.5
M5
M9
M01
(on to the next weld)
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 17, 2015, 02:21:21 PM
IF it works OK without using the pendant then it sounds like the problem lies with their PLUGIN software. HAVE you contacted Vista about the problem ???

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 17, 2015, 04:00:25 PM
I'm waiting to hear from Vista. They were initially unable to duplicate the problem.
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 28, 2015, 01:00:31 PM
Here is what has happened since my last post. I'm hoping that somebody (please) will be willing to try to duplicate this problem. Tech support at Artsoft doesn't seem to be having much luck so far.

The Vista P2S pendant requires that you toggle through "pause" to get to "start". On a whim, I decided to do the same thing while operating from the Mach3 screen. The same problem occurred!

So does Mach3 have a bug that causes this problem that I happened to trip over because of the way that the pause/stop feature works on the pendant, or did the plugin for the pendant corrupt Mach3? I don't know because I never tried that stop/start sequence before installing the pendant.

Would somebody be willing to try to duplicate my problem on a version of Mach3 that doesn't have a Vista plugin so that I can tell where the problem is?

The program is below. Note that it uses G54, 55 and 56. They should all be set the same.

%
O0001;
(uprod to end housing)
(no filler)
g0g90g17g54x-.102y0z0a0
m8p.4
m3p.4
g01x.102f2.5
m5
m9
g0a180x-.102
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
g0a218x0y-.025z.02
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a326f2.5
m5
m9
g0a37x0y-.025z.02
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a150f2.5
m5
m9

(use filler)
g0g90g17g54x-.102y0z0a0
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
m1

g0a37x0y-.025z.02
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a150f2.5
m5
m9
m1


g0a180x-.102y0z0
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
m1

g0a218x0y-.025z.02
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a326f2.5
m5
m9
m1



g0g90g17g55x-.102y0z0a0
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
m1

g0a37x0y-.025z.02
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a150f2.5
m5
m9
m1


g0a180x-.102y0z0
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
m1


g0a218x0y-.025z.02
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a326f2.5
m5
m9
m1



g0g90g17g56x-.102y0z0a0
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
m1

g0a37x0y-.025z.02
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a150f2.5
m5
m9
m1


g0a180x-.102y0z0
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1x.102f2.5
m5
m9
m1


g0a218x0y-.025z.02
m1
m8p.4
m3p.4
g1a326f2.5
m5
m9
m1


g0g90g54a0x0y0z0
M30
%

Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 28, 2015, 03:27:31 PM
IF the pendant is actually CYCLING THRU those functions THAT is a BAD thing. It should move to another function THEN select that function.

To test it I need your M3 and M8 macros as those do not appear to be standard macros and may effect the outcome. Also do yo have the Return FUNCTION turned ON or OFF ? That also can effect the outcome.



(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 28, 2015, 03:29:41 PM
I just tested the Gcode and it ran fine all cycle starts to continue acted as it should it followed ALL the modal values of the code perfectly.

When you stop on M1 do you MOVE off position at any time? 

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 28, 2015, 04:33:08 PM
When a program stop (M1 or M0) comes up, the pendant displays "Stop?". The only way to get past it is to click through with the pendant button. It then displays "Start?". You must then click through again, at which point the program resumes. My problem is that all feed moves from then on are rapid moves.

So, it sounds like your feed moves did not turn into rapid moves like mine do. That points to an issue with the plugin corrupting Mach3. Does that sound right?

M3 is generally spindle on, forward.
M8 is generally coolant on.
For my laser welder it turns on the beam and shielding gas respectively.
M5 and M9 turns them of.

I'm not moving during the stop commands.

Thanks for responding!
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 28, 2015, 04:53:16 PM
Your M3 M8 macros have parameter calls attached so they are NOT standard M3/8 macros (;-)

It is pointing to a problem with the  pendant/plugin functioning.
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 28, 2015, 07:11:42 PM
Are you referring to the P.4? I thought that was a pause of .4 seconds duration. Is that not true?
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 28, 2015, 07:54:26 PM
Not used in that context. I would have to see the macro code to know exactly what it was used for. It cold be a puase or anything else in the code.   With each Mcode you have up to 3 paramaters that you can call with teh macro PQR.

A gcode pause would be G04 Pxx. The G04 is the pause and teh Pxx is the duration.
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 28, 2015, 07:56:58 PM
AS a test I would unload the plugin and run the test from the keyboard..

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 29, 2015, 01:46:10 PM
Thanks again for responding!

I restructured the program so that the pauses are like this:

M3
G04P.4
M8
G04P.4
etc.

I also removed the plugin from the Mach3 folder. This was in addition to deactivating it in the configuration screen.

The problem is still there. It is very persistent!

Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 29, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
OK lets start from teh top. When the Gcode STOPS for the M1 and then you press Cycle Start to resume it restarts in G00 mode and stays there ? It does not even change modes on the very next G1 call ??

You stated earlier than it ran FINE from the keyboard and the problem was when you did it from the pendant. WHICH is it ??

IS this a LPT version or do you run an outside controller ??

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 29, 2015, 02:52:22 PM
If I'm running from the Mach3 screen (no pendant), and I restart from an M1 or M0 by clicking on the "Cycle Start" button everything works fine through the whole program.

If I'm running from the pendant, due to the dual purpose of the start/hold position of the selector switch, I have to click "Hold" before "Start". There is no choice in the matter that I can see. And this is when all subsequent feed moves become rapid moves. Even when running the program again from the start. It then has nothing to do with M1s or M0s. The only way to clear it is to exit Mach3 and restart it.

What is interesting to me, is that if I am running without the pendant and press "Hold", then "Start" to move past an M1 or M0, it does the same thing. So, is it a bug in Mach3 or has has the Vista plugin corrupted Mach3? Your result points to a plugin problem, don't you think?
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 29, 2015, 05:23:23 PM
HIYA Mike I cannot get it to fail HERE in that mode no matter WHAT I throw at it. It allways follows the modal state precisely. What I would try NEXT is to recreate teh config file from scratch DO NOT reload a XML backup. Start from scratch and plugin all the numbers by hand. THEN rerun the senario.

I will keep testing here to see IF I can get it to fail in ANY way.

(;-) TP

Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 29, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
Are you referring to the general config popup in the config menu? I don't see a way to reconfigure that from scratch other than installing a fresh copy of Mach3.
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on July 30, 2015, 10:30:19 PM
OK, here is the latest in my Vista P2S pendant and Mach3 saga. I started from a totally new Mach3. A time consuming process for sure. Lots of things to set.

But the bottom line is, it now works fine! No more rapid moves that were intended to be feed moves.

Evidentally the Vista P2S pendant plugin corrupts Mach3. And in a potentially dangerous way. Especially if you are running something like a mill or lathe. If you are running a machine like this with a Vista P2S pendant installed, please be careful and try your new programs cutting air only.

I plan to return this Vista P2S pendant. Does anyone know of a good pendant that works with Mach3?
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on July 30, 2015, 11:06:17 PM
HOLD ON THERE big dawg. you are not done yet (;-) NOW you need to reinstall the pendant and see IF the problem returns. FIRST same the XML off to a safe place so IF it does you can simpley delete the current XML and install teh GOOD xml.

IT could have been a corrupt XML causing the problem.   

Just a thought, (;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on August 01, 2015, 09:19:30 AM
Your colleague Brett suggested the same thing.

So I cloned the functioning version and installed the Vista plugin. And it now works just like it's supposed to! I have no clue what I did differently on my first attempt and it sure has me scratching my head. But it doesn't do rapids in place of feeds anymore.

I have noticed a new problem that has nothing to do with the pendant. For whatever reason, my A axis now feeds in degrees per minute rather than inches per minute. No matter what value I put in the A axis radius box (in the settings window) the rotary axis seems to move in degrees per minute. The old configuration didn't have this problem. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Many thanks to Rob, Terry and Brett at Artsoft for getting this pendant problem fixed!

Mike
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: ger21 on August 01, 2015, 09:24:47 AM
On Config> Toolpath, there's a checkbox to use the radius for feedrate I think.
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on August 01, 2015, 10:42:57 AM
Gerry has you cover there, Check that setting.

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on August 01, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
That fixed it.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on August 02, 2015, 10:37:40 AM
Argh! The gremlin is back! I welded several parts successfully using the pendant. Then the feeds became rapids again. I hadn't changed anything. Just loaded another part and hit start. And as soon as I clicked through the M0 stop, it started doing it again.
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on August 02, 2015, 02:04:16 PM
I just got this response from Vista:

Hi Mike,

As said in previous email, this is a Mach3 bug.
From the pendant side, I can send you a modified plugin that disable the function of feedhold, so the start/hold button only has function of start. This will avoid to put the machine in hold position when press the button.

You can assign any one of the F key to feedhold Funtime.


Thanks,
Lee


Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on August 05, 2015, 11:44:19 AM
Here is the latest. I also posted this on the cnc zone forum.

Lee sent the modified plugin, and all has been well for several days now. I hope it stays that way.

I have to wonder though, if Vista is aware of this bug why do they ship pendants with plugins that interact with it in such a dangerous way? Wouldn't it be safer to only ship the modified version?

Mike
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: BR549 on August 05, 2015, 11:56:17 AM
Sometimes a bug will ONLY show up IF a certain condition is active. YOU may be the very first to have hit the magic combination to trigger the bug. The trick is being able to replicate the exact condition that causes it. Once teh problem can be identifyed then it is normally easy to fix the bug.

(;-) TP
Title: Re: Help! Dangerous Result With Mach3 And Vista Pendant
Post by: Mike K on August 05, 2015, 01:16:40 PM
I wish I could pinpoint it so it could be fixed, but I don't even know whether it resides in the plugin or Mach3.