Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => CS-Lab => Topic started by: slvm on April 26, 2015, 07:58:51 AM
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HI ALL
I start the post to find/share info with experimented user who have already retrofitted Machines with Analog servo-drives.
I intend to retrofit my CNC Bulleri FPM 2813-Osai controll with CSMIO-IP-A Motion Controll under Mach 3
Reasons:
1-to old and expensive controller (the CNC was dead and cost a lot the replacement), to be free from dedicated systems slavery .....(you know what I mean....) ;)
To bring the machine on year 2015 I intend to use following:
1-Mach 3
2-CSMIO-IP-A Motion Controll
3-My PC with 2 operation system; one for design and the other one for operator- splitted on 2 SSD OCZ systems,
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2120 CPU @ 3.30GHz base score on win 7-64 Bit 7.1
Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB base score on win 7-64 Bit 7.5
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 base score on win 7-64 Bit 7.6
Gaming graphics 4095 MB base score on win 7-64 Bit 7.6
Total available graphics memory 7.6
Ssd 64 GB + Ssd112GB Total) base score on win 7-64 Bit 7.9
machine is featured with:
big vacuum table 2600x1300 mm ; splitted on 2 zones; multi drill heads on separate spindle 7 vertical and 2 orizontal X,Y drills...(I have already headicks on Brain - controlls :'()
4 servo analogue drives for main Axis XYZ + ATM automated tool changer (8 tools here will be also a lot of tears by Brain design :'()
I try to attach some pics but it seems I'm to fresh here , or I made some mistakes on upload....
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Looks like a nice machine :)
Is the toolchange just a wine rack type setup or is it some other design?
I think maybe a macropump would be better than a brain for it but I suppose it depends how much you know about VB script.
Hood
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VB=oemLED (0)-
Tool changer is 8 item distributed to C drive who is (was) command on RS 232.
Got a lot of headick on VB script learning....More I read, more know that "I don't know nothing...." :'( :'( :'(
I will need some help for it....
new pics
I made one bench for Input signals (24V)
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cnc large ...pics
I read all your posts Hood ; it seems you are the best on CSMIO-IP-A retrofit.....
regards folks
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I am not the best at VB, in fact I am probably one of the worst :D
I muddle through and usually find a way to make things work but the script is far from elegant but at least it seems to work :)
Can you explain the sequence of your tool changer a bit more. What I/O does it require? Is it a servo motor controlling it?
Looks like a nice computer, bit of overkill for a CNC controller though :D
I would keep that computer for my designing (CAD/CAM ) and just build a simple one for the CNC control.
Is that a Corsaid case? Just got myself a Corsair Air540 for my home computer, it is a superb case :)
Hood
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I am not the best at VB, in fact I am probably one of the worst :D
I muddle through and usually find a way to make things work but the script is far from elegant but at least it seems to work :)
Can you explain the sequence of your tool changer a bit more. What I/O does it require? Is it a servo motor controlling it?
Looks like a nice computer, bit of overkill for a CNC controller though :D
I would keep that computer for my designing (CAD/CAM ) and just build a simple one for the CNC control.
Is that a Corsaid case? Just got myself a Corsair Air540 for my home computer, it is a superb case :)
Hood
1-Regarding the tool changer:
It's servo motor lead by separate drive .On to the old machine the communication was by RS232 and not as auxiliary axis, it seems that on Mach this must to work as one 4-th Axis I assume...
The computer case is one cheap NOX.It'S modded by me (I own one small modding store - sleeve-modding.com)
Your Design PC looks really good, it seems you like to mode too.
I prepare one Obsidian case 800D for my home App, when will be finish I will post some pics on it...
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If it is a servo which I presume the drive can accept +/- 10v command, then it will be relatively simple to write the macro.
You would indeed just use an axis to control it and all that would be required is to home on initial start of Mach so that the position is known.
I have just got back into modding the PC after a lot of years. I used to have fun overclocking. Got a fright the last day when I found my old website files and realised that it was from 15 years ago and looking at things like graphics cards of 124MHz that were fairly decent at the time :D
At that time I had a vapochil with a XP2500+ (1800MHz ) CPU overclocked to 2729MHz.
Now I am not bothered about overclocking, I just wanted a nice quiet PC :)
I wish I had known about your site, I ordered some sleeving and connector housings from a UK supplier and I am still waiting, a week later, for delivery.
Look forward to seeing the finished machine and also pics of the home computer.
Hood
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Pff for those times the modd it was a HIT.
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Based on my OLD inputs:
-home axis x
-home axis y
-home axis z
-vacuum table 1 (pressure gauge 1)
-vacuum table 2 (pressure gauge 2)
-vacuum pump acces
-acces mill 1 (assume is the main spindle)
-acces mill 2 (assume is the drill spindle)
-cone-holder OPEN
-cone holder CLOSE
-thermic inverter
-drill group DOWN
-drill group UP
-dust colector UP
-Inverter OK
-frequency reached
-drive axis C (ATM axis) OK
-pressure reached on the main spindle
-OK Z
-axis overreached (axis limits switches)
-emergency on main panel (emergency switch on the panel)
-machine emergency (chain with pushButtonsMushroom 3, line pressure,lock of main door)
-vacuum termic breaker
-drill unit thermic breaker
-motor stop
-external start
-external stop
-vacuum switch 1
-vacuum switch 2
-inverter frequency level
Outputs :
- 9 outputs for drill heads 1,2,3-----9 (activation of the drill heads I assume they need M codes and VB Macro)
-ascension of 4 guides (0-ing hardware fixtures on each corner of table) depending on each side of table you work - need M codes
-axis C (ATM) enable
-up down dust cover
-drill head UP
-drill head DOWN
-OPEN/CLOSE Tool holder clamp
-vacuum side 1 of table
-vacuum side 2 of the table
-enbla axis X,Y,Z
-enable inverter
what do you think ?
shall I use brains
or shall I use VB macro's ?
or both ?
another problem that I found is:
if I use VB macro with setinbit/reset outbit commands (for csmio) I must not assign port and pin on Match3 set-up.If I do this it seems that they conflicts together.... ???
where can I find some simple VB macro's to corelate Input & Outputs ? simple example will be for me very usefull as I'm nob on this matter.
thank you in advance Hood
it seems on this area (csmio') you are the lonely pro' :-[
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Hi,
don't want to stumble into your your converstion wit Hood.
i have also two csmio machines and i have written many macros for it.
i think that is a VB script project.
some of it will go into macropump.
some of it into M6 and a couple of it into other macro's.
don't be affraid of VB step by some of us will get you through
this project i think.
first of all is to get all the wiring done, check all in- outputs
and then start one after another.
first to get the axis running, then the spindle then the rest.
your machine is a very interesting machine.
i am "on board" to help you.
we will see who else is comming up.
excuse my bad bavarin english.
Thomas
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Glad to see Thomas in on this, he is much better at VB than I will ever be :)
There is info on the CS-Lab site about using the I/O with the inbuild modbus and for that matter using as I/O in Mach as you would do with the PP.
As you have discovered you can not enable the I/O in Ports and Pins then use the Modbus or you will get conflicts, it is one or the other.
Here is very simple example of using some of the Inputs (from buttons) that I have in my macropump.
Ref= GetInbit(100,6)
Clamp=GetInBit(100,10)
If Ref=1 Then
DoOEMButton(1024)
While IsMoving()
Wend
DoOEMButton(1023)
While IsMoving()
Wend
DoOEMButton(1022)
While IsMoving()
Wend
End If
If Clamp=1 Then
SetModOutput(0,1)
Else
SetModOutput(0,0)
End If
BTW did you manage to see if that is a prox on the tool changer? If so did you see where it goes?
Hood
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Hi,
don't want to stumble into your your converstion wit Hood.
i am "on board" to help you.
we will see who else is comming up.
excuse my bad bavarin english.
Thomas
Hi Thomas
Any help/info is very valuable for me ! from people who have to do with...csmio-ip-a&Mach3 because I'm really STUCK.I just dive in and finish to read the manuals & :'(
Regarding the English no worry I'm in same trouble.... :P
I assume you want to writte Bavarian, no worry I understand also Deutsch Sprache. I live near Koblenz almost 2 years & otherwise I'm BMW -Fan.
But now I'm just one old slave from OSAI and need to close this with Mach3 oportunity.
Any way thanks for answer.
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Oh and just to clarify, the bit above that has
SetModOutput(0,1) etc
is to my PLC which is connected to Mach via the serial modbus.
Hood
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Glad to see Thomas in on this, he is much better at VB than I will ever be :)
There is info on the CS-Lab site about using the I/O with the inbuild modbus and for that matter using as I/O in Mach as you would do with the PP.
As you have discovered you can not enable the I/O in Ports and Pins then use the Modbus or you will get conflicts, it is one or the other.
BTW did you manage to see if that is a prox on the tool changer? If so did you see where it goes?
Regarding ModBus, have no info found on manual from csmio and I have no PLC device, about ATM switch I will do some pics on end of this week, thanks for example ! ::)
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You do not need a PLC, I had one already and I am much better at ladder logic than VB so it was easier for me to use that for my tool changer, it has a lot of I/O (40 or so) and a lot of interlocks.
I will get you a link to the CSMIO I/O page in a minute.
Hood
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Ok here is the IP-A one
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/upload/fotki/Elementy,%20banery/CSMIO-IP-A%20artyku%C5%82.jpg
This page has them all including the Enc module.
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/artykul-128-Digital_and_analog_IOs__configuration__its_easy.html
Hood
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Ok here is the IP-A one
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/upload/fotki/Elementy,%20banery/CSMIO-IP-A%20artyku%C5%82.jpg
This page has them all including the Enc module.
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/artykul-128-Digital_and_analog_IOs__configuration__its_easy.html
Hood
Thanks Hood !
Got already those files for Pin Assingnation on VB, I found if I do (Pins enabling/assignation ) on Mach 3 then they conflicy with Bit addresses from VB Macro-file...After Manual read I believe first must to assign all in Mach3 but now I'm really confused about Mach3 Pin Assignations - need they to be assign or not ? under Mach3 of course... ???
emil
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Here is an example of VB that I have in a button.
It is looking at the second encoder input on the Enc module. I have a glass scale connected to that input and I use that for setting my tool heights.
If GetOemLED(800) Then
MsgBox ("Mach In Reset, Enable and start again")
End
End If
Offset = GetOemDRO(1150)
SetOemDRO(1555,Question("Enter Offset Number"))
Tool = GetOemDRO(1555)
Code "G90" & "G10" & "L1" & "P" & Tool &"Z" & Offset
DoOemButton(121)
The first part is just looking at the reset button in Mach, if Mach is in reset it pops up a message telling me to enable Mach and press the button again.
The next part is reading the info from the glass scale which is seen in the DRO 1150.
The next bit just pops up a question box asking me what tool number I want the value to be enterened into the tool table for,
the last bit is setting the value in the DRO in the correct location in the tool table and then opening the tool table so I can enter a name for the tool.
Hood
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You can use the Ports and Pins in Mach if you want or you can use the modbus in the CSMIO or you can use some of each. What you can not do is use the same i/o for both, it is one or the other for that particular input or output.
What I mean is, for example.
If you had an input to the CSMIO you could set it in Ports and Pins in Mach and use it in VB but you would use the standard Mach VB way of doing things.
So say you have the Input set to Input 1 in ports and pins you would then be able to use the VB with something like
If IsActive(Input1) then..........
If you use it via the CSMIO Modbus then you do not set the Input in Ports and Pins, you simply use the modbus in the CSMIO, so it would be something like
If GetInBit (*,*) then........
Hope that helps ::)
Hood
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AHA ! Got it ! for Dinner ;D
Thanks Hood.
If you find any other simple examples or got some links too, will be very apreciated. :)
emil
Now is clear for me with I/O for both case .
Is need it Any particular set-up on Engine Configuration window ? see attach
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This is a simple on/off script I have in a button that connects to my servo drives Reset input. I have it set up in Ports and Pins in Mach as Output 3 and thus I just use the normal Mach VB
ActivateSignal(OutPut3)
Sleep (100)
DeActivateSignal(OutPut3)
Hood
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Hi Emil,
there are a couple of macro excamples on CSMIO homepage:
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/artykul-115-Addons_macros.html
as i have writen before my personal agenda would be:
1. get all the hardware things wired
2. get the axis running
3. get the spindle running
4. then get headache about VB macros
Thomas
don't be afraid of VB,
it's just
If Then Else or Maybe
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@Hood
Now I'm start to breathe a little, because untill now I fill that I was cabbage on domain....
@Thomas
It seems that your TO DO plan is well organized....if I think from start on all ; then will do a really mess on my mind !
Thanks a lot folks ! :)
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OK Emil,
i made a quick head based calculation of your in-/outputs
Based on my OLD inputs:
-home axis x
-home axis y
-home axis z
-vacuum table 1 (pressure gauge 1)
-vacuum table 2 (pressure gauge 2)
-vacuum pump acces
-acces mill 1 (assume is the main spindle)
-acces mill 2 (assume is the drill spindle)
-cone-holder OPEN
-cone holder CLOSE
-thermic inverter
-drill group DOWN
-drill group UP
-dust colector UP
-Inverter OK
-frequency reached
-drive axis C (ATM axis) OK
-pressure reached on the main spindle
-OK Z
-axis overreached (axis limits switches)
-emergency on main panel (emergency switch on the panel)
-machine emergency (chain with pushButtonsMushroom 3, line pressure,lock of main door)
-vacuum termic breaker
-drill unit thermic breaker
-motor stop
-external start
-external stop
-vacuum switch 1
-vacuum switch 2
-inverter frequency level
means 30 inputs
Outputs :
- 9 outputs for drill heads 1,2,3-----9 (activation of the drill heads I assume they need M codes and VB Macro)
-ascension of 4 guides (0-ing hardware fixtures on each corner of table) depending on each side of table you work - need M codes
-axis C (ATM) enable
-up down dust cover
-drill head UP
-drill head DOWN
-OPEN/CLOSE Tool holder clamp
-vacuum side 1 of table
-vacuum side 2 of the table
-enbla axis X,Y,Z
-enable inverter
means 20 outputs
csmio-a has
24 inputs
16 outputs
witch makes a IO extension module necessary.
Thomas
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Hi Emil,
@Thomas
It seems that your TO DO plan is well organized....if I think from start on all ; then will do a really mess on my mind !
i am doing retrofit things for almost 25 years now,
had to learn this.
Thomas
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Hi Hood,
Glad to see Thomas in on this, he is much better at VB than I will ever be :)
Thank You.
Thomas
as writen before:
If Then Else or Maybe
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Hi Thomas
Got already the I/O extension.
Pff 25 years , that mean you are Daddy's on CNC,
have you some on You Tube or links on your retrofitings ?
Any way I feel pleasure when I do this retrofit (even I headache on manuals) and like to understand each step and all about my machine.
attach explanation
Done some work to my main PC, ....a midplatte for wata' cooling, but it seems glued the sandwich is not the best, I must redo on CNC and use some gasket between plattes.
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Hi Emil,
Hi Thomas
Pff 25 years , that mean you are Daddy's on CNC,
have you some on You Tube or links on your retrofitings ?
sorry, i am "prehistoric", means i do do not evan have a
smarthphone, only a mobilephone (phone is the major thing,
yust dial a number and talk).
so i do not have any youtube videos.
sorry again.
Thomas
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What is the plate cooling?
Was going to measure up my graphics card to make a backplate for it, have an EK cooler on it. Decided to google the part number for the back plate and found it for £11 in the UK, so not worth even thinking about making my own :D
Hood
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TPS, likewise regarding the phone, hate the bloody things, usualy have mine on silent ;)
Hood
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@Thomas
About phone I have same opinion ,and use it only for talk or read some short at morning coffe ....
@Hood
The platte is not for cooling; it is made to divide the case on 2 areas (mobo and & power supply area) and to lead the water trough and reach the reservoir on top and pump under area and lead back to radiator on top.
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Ah ok I see now.
Hood
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hate the bloody things, usualy have mine on silent ;)
yust ignore it. (don't hate it).
sometimes it is easier.
Thomas
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I do, mine is usually in the car when I am not in the car ;)
Hood
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One more question before sleep :
Any necessary set-up for the CSMIO-Modbus in the Engine Config ...Port and Pin windows ?
see attach
Thank you !
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No, not for CSMIO :)
Hood
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Hi All
Got some news:
1-I mount the machine on force power -380V
2-test and move all Axis X,Y,Z except the C for ATM, the old config of this C Axis was trough the RS 232 from the old cnc (I intend to use for this one encoder direct- need the drive one new set-up fotr this ? wait your opinion about)
for time I made all of this without to mount the csmio or Mach, is made direct from the cabinet Inputs/Outputs
3-test the Emergency Chain : mushrooms buttons, limit switches, vacuum chain, pressures, cabinet emergency switches
Unfortunate got no time to test the spindle heads & the inverter
So the point 3. From Thomas rules is not yet accomplished (hope this week to finish with the spindle and test all outputs-mean the secondary, drills , block units for 0 home on corners etc.
I will post some pics with:
Limit switches on Axis C, Z,Y,X and secondary drills location/sense of rotation.
??? QUESTION :
When I need to add Input from csmi-o on the Brain controls how I must to declare the csmio address ? see the attach .
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What drive is used for the C Axis?
For the switch on the C it looks like it is operated via a cam, I presume that is adjustable and will likel;y be at Tool 1, this will make homing the carousel easy and it means you can just control it as an axis from Mach.
For the modbus it is as in pic below. I am not 100% certain that it is the macro modbus but fairly sure it is, would have to check tomorrow to be certain.
Hood
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You right about ATM axis, it index the tool nr 1 at homing, the drive is on attach.
Regarding the ModBus set -up I try it , but it seems don't work....or I do somethingh wrong?
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Hi,
Regarding the ModBus set -up I try it , but it seems don't work....or I do somethingh wrong?
i'll gona try this tonight, never worked with brain.
Thomas
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Thank you folks...!
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Ok just tested, you need the Serial Non Plugin chosen and also the Bit Only box.
Hood
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Hi,
tested on my -M machine.
exactly like Hood described.
Thomas
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@Hood
@Thomas
Thank you ! IT WORKS GREAT :D
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OK,
i think your B/C axis can work as a "normal" CSMIO-A axis,
so the only little problem witch is left, is to get this C/B axis
controler (Witch is now in a positionig via RS232/mode ore someting like this),
into a -/+10V mode.
Thomas
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Yes Thomas
I intend to try to use the 6-th encoder Input for this.
But I'm afraid I must reprogramm the drive to work on -/+10V mode (configured and calibrate) , it is some kind of software Program (named winbass-from OSAI/Baumuller,I guess in fact the drives are manufactured from Baumuller but Osai just name the drives with their name)...
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Hi,
But I'm afraid I must reprogramm the drive to work on -/+10V mode (configured and calibrate) , it is some kind of software Program (named winbass-from OSAI/Baumuller,I guess in fact the drives are manufactured from Baumuller but Osai just name the drives with their name)...
yes controller has to be reconfigured, but you have the others witch are running in the right mode.
had a look on my old laptop, because i have worked with Baumüller drives about 10-15 years ago.
i have a version of winbass installed, an still a install file for this software.
if you give me a serialnumber/type of the controller i can check with Baumüller weather this is the
right version to configure this drive.
Thomas
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I got one pic with the serial number and the code tabel OSAI-BAUMULLER.
Hope this is ok for you to identify wich version I have....
I lock on the help program file but it seems I will need to have master degree on Automatization to achieve the set-up on one such drive... :-[
Thank's for info,
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i am able to select your driver in my software.
i have put the software in my dropbox.
you should get a email.
Thomas
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8) Already got it !
thank you Thomas.
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Hi All
This week I try some brains (for me as beginner is the most WANTED/Easy way) Hope....
I breake Thomas retrofit Plan that he give me :-[ (with Brain - design) because I have at Home one bench table that simulate 24V Inputs and I need to test and test &....CSMIO+Mach
1 Purpose is to :
Activate True signals for/on enable axis; Else deactivate it with (Invert) signals that suppose STOP MACHINE (e.g. limit switch + or -, stop MushroomButtons, low pressure on Vacuum etc)
Declare Inputs trough the ModBus unassigned pins on Mach3-( this way we can spare some Mach3 pins/Inputs) and go on Outputs (assigned on Mach3)
*added one Timer (2 sec ) let the drives energize ....
I found that if declare Inputs & Output ONLY with ModBus addresses (without Mach3 assignations) in some cases the Output stay on active state (even I disable the running Macro from Brain control), those will dectivate ONLY if I reset the Mach3, it seems they stay on active state somewhere (RAM of PC, on CSMIO ????? )
If I declare the Inputs trough the ModBus and the Outputs trough Mach3 (Port&Pins) then the Brain works fine.
Other Issue (not Importat ) is: if you declare Inputs or Outputs by ModBus , then you can't made any distinction on seeing wich is the input and wich is the Output (View Brain, or Brain EDIT)....
@Thomas have you any info/manual about the item inverter HSD DS7500 ?
(if I made some syntax wrong please sorry for my bad English.....)
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Hi
I activate / check all Outputs from Mach3, I found that some inputs and outputs are not the same as in electrical schema from manufacturer...
After that
I connect the encoders to CSMIO and try to Auto-Tune the drives.
Unfortunate the Axis moves by herself/slow (0,311 V measure the signals) without control, and the Mach3 goes in error, the message is ePID fault.
What Is wrong ? set-up from Mach,CSMIO,bad wiring from drives ...
The Axis moves even if the drives are not in to the enable state ? I can not manage and close the loop even on Jog or Csmio PID/jog
Please Help.
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Axes should not move if the drive is not enabled, you must have something wrong there.
Regarding the axis moving when under Mach/IP-A control then it is likely your encoder needs inverted, you can do that in the plugin, there is an option for each axis (Enc Rev Direction)
Hood
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I saw that the documentation of wiring Analog /Encoder is diferent from Baumuller drives.
I wonder could be possible to have again wrong inputs or outputs from drives/encoders ?
Questions:
I not twisted the cables and shield on 30cm distance from the old connector to csmio encoder
From drives operate manual I see that the max output from drives is 5V / 400mA and csmio max is 200mA ?
could be problem here ?
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Try reversing the encoder in the CSMIO plugin and see if that helps.
You will have to find the issue with the Enable though, the axes should never move if the drive is not enabled.
It is best to have properly shielded wiring on any low voltage signal, if the signals are differential and twisted in their respective pairs then the shielding is less important however it is still a good idea to shield correctly.
The output should not be an issue as the drive is capable of outputting more than the IP-A requires, assuming I am understanding what you are meaning of course :)
Hood
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Drives have 4 states.on 3state are ready, on 4 are energized, machine move and get 0,3 volts from csmio on 3 state .even I off the csmio the move is present.
I will try to invert the Enc Rev Direction, next time.
thank you hood
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sorry , pic not croped
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You will always get a small voltage on your analogue wires, the only way to control motion is to have your controller stop that motion. If you turn off the IP-A but have the drives enabled the axes will drift, with the IP-A on, the IP-A will sense that drifting by seeing the encoder moving and correct for it and thus keep the axes still.
I am not sure what the first pic is meant to show, I do not see any enable states ?
Regarding the encoder inputs max current, that should be fine.
Hood
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Hello Emil,
fist of all i am happy to se that you make progress.
regarding to your brain's for the eneable conditions, a couple of the signals should
be handled by mach3 not via brain.
all axis limit switches should be declared in port's/pin's input's
E-Stop should be declared in port's/pin's input's
Enable servo controllers should be declared in port's/pin's output's
servo ready signal should be declared in CSMIO plugin
servo reset signal should be declared in CSMIO plugin
so what is left:
vacuum/pressure limit should only stop automatic operation to be able to do something in manual.
for the e-stop you have normaly a hardware circuit with e-stop relay, this estop relay sholud also
switch off (off delayed), via a bigger contactor, the main power othe drives and spindles.
Thomas
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Thank you
@Thomas
@Hood
In this weekend I will try to solve this movment on Axis and fix the Inputs & Outputs.
My problem is with the limits + &- ; Home limits signals are distinct signals as inputs, the limits x-x+, y-y+, z+- are connected in series with other emergency switches, cabinet switch,mushroom buttons (see the attached Emergency chain and the inputs from Osai connectors)
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Hi Emil,
at least i would seperate axis Limit Switches (can stay in series) and the E-Stop chain,
create a inustrieal Standard estop circiut (e-stop relay and main power contactor for all Motors).
all this Software e-stop circuits are not save for my mind.
Thomas
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Ok Thomas
As I understand from you following:
1-let the Emergency chain as it is 2-(or rewiring +,- limits switches out of the chain ?)
& create another e-stop - for this I have available one mushroom button and for Power drives I have one separate button (ready on drives) on the panel / closet .
Regarding the axis uncontrolled movements I will try to find; if any wrong pin assignation from Osai to encoder connector (I will measure the A+A- B+B- Z+Z- pins)
You are 100% right about the safety standard, machine run on X along 2800 mm with 20m/min, if someone is hit (Y axis is about 250kg) then will be like a car accident.I visit someone with one home-made cnc and I note the poor safety on it....
thank you
I apologies on the moderators for so many posts ,but hope all my answered questions will be useful for other users...
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Hi
On this week I do following :
Rewiring the encoders and Analog to csmi-o after the Baumuller/drive manual, all is fine now, all uncontrolled movements are stoped, I assume on Osai wiring to encoder connector somethingh was wrong...
I tune the motors untill I got one smooth movement and I Autotune the PID on all axis, it seems everythingh is fine, the machine run like in "butter" with smooth accel and brake, voltage on csmio max +/-7,5 V
after I calibrate the mesurement/pulses untill I obtain same unit on Mach and in real unit movements, the biggest error is on Z=0,03 mm (I assume because equilibration), after declare baclslah 0,03 mm error go = 0,00
I need help with:
1-After Homing I have no ideea how can I reset the machine coordinates at 0 ?
2-Got problem on wiring and declare inputs/outputs on the (VFD-spindle ) , found no where (Mach3-csmio) somethingh about frequency level and frequency reached (attach inverter electr schema) ?
Also I google on HSD 7500 inverter and have no results.... ???
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Hello Emil,
--I need help with:
--1-After Homing I have no ideea how can I reset the machine coordinates at 0 ?
are you using the 1024 screenset, if yes have a look in diagnostic page, there you can see
all coordinates. normaly the machine coordinates are set to 0 by reference, what you see
in the main screen are the work offsets, witch may be different.
--2-Got problem on wiring and declare inputs/outputs on the (VFD-spindle ) , found no where (Mach3-csmio) somethingh about frequency level and frequency reached
--(attach inverter electr schema) ?
i have written HSD an email about manual.
i think for the beginning it is enought to wire
-csmio analog output to analog input of vfd
-csmio digital output for enable vfd
-inverter ok to a csmio input
-and if you want the frequenzy reached to a csmio input
at least the 24V and GND.
Thomas
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Thank you Thomas !
I will wok on VFD wiring diagram today and post here to have your opinion.
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I have one wiring schema for the inverter , But I'm still concerning over those Analog Input....
@Thomas- have you any news from HSD, I try to find/google on HSD 7500 Manual but got no file found...
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Hello Emil,
i have got no answer from HSD.
the wiring diagram looks ok, the only signal
i am not clear is this frequency level signal.
may be the best thing is to fire up the spindle
and have a look what is going on with this signal.
Thomas
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Thanks Thomas
I think is another mistake (knowingly or perhaps not) from the manufacturer of the electrical closet.
BTW I check all inputs and outputs , and discover 5-6 mistakes on pin assignations....e.g. on of them was by Axis enable (to output)
I wonder how is that possible to CNC-machine with start price at 125.000 euro on 2002 !?
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Hello Emil,
here: http://www.gk-world.com/html/gongkongziliaowo/bpycd/bianpinqi/2013/1211/69372.html
i found a manual (scrolldown to get to wiring diagrams).
but some of the terminal numbers are different.
not realy shure what we can thrust ?
Thomas
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Thank you Thomas -
you are great
I wonder now if the electrical schemas from Dierre is OK ? I start to really doubt their info....after I found a lot of errors on their schematic project >:D ;D
I have some screen shoot over the schemas , I think the last solution is to dismantle the inverter and check if it looks like this manual, pin assign and other...
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Yesterday I check the inverter, you right Thomas ,is not the same on your link, ....
I adapt 2 relay's to Csmio - Analogoutput 0 (to be able change between CW CCW), after some test the Inverter get into Alarm and block it self, so now Ihave only 2 choiche left:
-to use Analog Output (wiithout any relays) only in to the CW mode or to change the old-inverter with new one able to be Programmed....
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Hi Emil,
maybe you can test with pin4 (input 8) witch is in standard config for
Reverse.
make one test pin4 connected to +24VDC and
one with pin 4 not connected.
let's try and error.
Thomas
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Hi Thomas
Here you find the connector pin from my Inverter, to have one opinion.
Also I post the Limit switches pics disposal on All Axis, the switches +/- are all in one single chain wired, so that made me problem to assign on Mach3 Inputs !? with Home switches is no problem they are separated.
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Hi Emil,
for the axis inputs, just seperate them from the e-Stop chain.
they should be NC contacts anyway, not like in the drawing as NO contacts.
Thomas
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You mean use the switch SWX (as example) to input on Mach as + and - Limits for X Axis ? or only for + ?
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Yes,
user for example SWX wire it to a input and
cofigure in Port's&Pin's the same inputs fpr X+ and X-.
there is only one switch, but there should be two braket's to trigger it.
Thomas
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got it, thanks. I will look for .
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Hello Emil,
good news, got a manual from HSD, bad news (for you), it is in german.
but anyway, the table for connections on page 30 looks quite good,
so i made a small table for connections:
28 (REF-V) 0-10V analog input -> csmio analog output
29 (GND-A) for analog input
5 (in 5) enable inverter -> csmio digital output
4 (REV) reverse rotation -> csmio digtal output to switch CW/CCW
8 (CM-IN) GND -> 24v GND
1 (FLT-NO) alarm relais -> csmio input inverter ready
2 (FLT-CM) for alarm relaise -> 24V+
6 (EXTFLT) external alarm -> 24V+
22 (IN3) temperature motor (not used) ->24V+
17 (OUT3-CM) -> 24V+
16 (OUT3-NO) -> csmio input output frq. = 0 allow tool change
30 (CM-OUT) ????? -> csmio input frq. reached but it is a open collector
32 (OUT2) ????? is connected to 24V+ does not make sence
so if only OUT2 is connected i should work with this 30/32 connection.
Thomas
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thank's a lot Thomas !
It's no problem with the manual language = "Ich spreche auch Deutsch - Zwei Jahre in Deutschland gelebt, im Koblenz"
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@Hood
are still watching this, to be my second chance ?
Thomas
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thank's a lot Thomas !
It's no problem with the manual language = "Ich spreche auch Deutsch - Zwei Jahre in Deutschland gelebt, im Koblenz"
ok das ist gut.
Thomas
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Hi All
Got good news and also some questions :
1-I run one test on cnc (after set the spindle only for CW rotation) it seems to be good (with one mill for hand machine and curved material, without vacuum hold )
2-I don't know why on Y the cnc made mirror (it is perhaps because I revrse Y Axis on home limit set-up) ? I revrse the Y because by Manual-Jog.
Unfortunate here can not post the short movie.
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Hi Emil,
looks quite good so far.
--2-I don't know why on Y the cnc made mirror (it is perhaps because I revrse Y Axis on home limit set-up) ? I revrse the Y because by Manual-Jog.
X and Y have to be set like a normal coordinate system, so if we say in a rectangle
X0Y0 is the left bottom corner
X+ is going to the right side
Y+ is going upwards
allways relayed to the material.
for your spindle CCW turn.
have you tryed this pin 4 (REV) reverse rotation -> csmio digtal output to switch CW/CCW
on the inverter for reverse run ?
Thomas
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Regarding "spindle reverse pin 4"
I try but it seems don't work, I think the inverter is in some how pre-programmed .
Another spindle problem is the brake, when goes stop (end of part-programm the HSD motor-spindle do some strange noise and brake abrupt)
how can I can set some delay in brake ?
any way I think I solve the main problem and now is VB for ATM and drill unit.... :( + FINE TUNNING
PS give me on PM your mail to send you the movies.
I wonder what happen with Hood , ...!? How are you Hood ?
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Hi Emil,
is there any posibility on this Inverter to Change Parameters,
in the Manual it does not look like there is any Display.
my email is below the avantar.
Thomas
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by the way,
is the spindle changing direction if you swap the analog Input wires ?
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by the way,
is the spindle changing direction if you swap the analog Input wires ?
When I change the reff wires the spindle change direction.
Can you help me with the tool change VB ?
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Hi Emil,
When I change the reff wires the spindle change direction.
Can you help me with the tool change VB ?
that means you can use a gold contact relay to swap the wires to change direction.
wire this relay to a csmio output and we do some changes in M3/M4 to get this
working.
just let me know what help you need for the toolchange macro.
Thomas
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Thomas
I use already 2 relays to change the direction but some people said is not OK to use by M4 - to +; but if you say is OK then I will do it.
By VB ATC I'm almost = 0.....First I will wire the C axis-encoder for the ATC and check the drive and the motor.
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Hi Emil;
Thomas
I use already 2 relays to change the direction but some people said is not OK to use by M4 - to +; but if you say is OK then I will do it.
maybe i missed something about this two relaiys,
pls give me a short update about this two relais.
Thomas
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I wire 2 relays to reff+ and to reff- , and set-up 2 output for M3 M4 , the Output manage the relays to feed with 10V the inverter.
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Hi Emil,
any new info's ??
yust a question.
Thomas
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HI ALL
Sorry Thomas I was busy those days...
1-So I set-up 2 relays on csmio-output M3 & M4 , and it works ! see attach
2-Regarding 'C" drive for ATM Axis, I have no feedback from the drive, unfortunate I can not have the RS 232 converter with me to check the drive sttings trough the WinBass software....it seems that this drive was set-up only to comunicate with RS232 .
Any ideea on how to made the setup ?
PS good news is that I made some test onRough & FINISH see attach
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Hi
Mean time I received from Wojtech csmio-tech support, the DS7500 wiring schema+set-up parameters ; wich I believe is one good option...
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Hi All
Sorry for late ....
Mean time I set 2 relays on my spindle and it seems they work well, I will experience also the csmio wiring when got more time
I decided following:
1-to change the ATM from rotary C on stationary along Y axis (because it seems I find not one VB Macro for rotary, and need to extend the Axis with rotary A )
2-to made one A axis with the old C-axis motor and drive.
Those bring me following:
gain for A axis motor + drive, solve the VB since I got one fromcsmio-site.
wait your opinion about those changements
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@Hood
are still watching this, to be my second chance ?
Thomas
It seems Hood is no more on-line for this post..... ???
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Hi Emil,
sorry for the delay, was very bussy during the last weeks.
any succes with winbas ? i asked them for the liccence,
but no Chance without giving Money, even i buyed this
Software years ago.
Thomas
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Hi Thomas
It seems I have more bad results with companies that sell very expensive products and try to earn money even after the items are obsolete....
same problem I have with HSD, I try to reprogramm my inverter but got problems because same reason .
I mail to Baumuller but since today got no mail back, I try to acces the driver without program set-up but got no acces on it since got no serial number.
BTW have they told you how much money they will for this (shayz) obsolete soft ?
Now is to understand why all almost all (CNC users) need to have regular components and get free from All those sharks ! >:(
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Hi All
The ultimate news are following:
I intend to build one static holder for tools along Y Axis: the benfits are following:
Got from Cs-Lab one VB for tool-changer along Y wich is static, of course some parameters is to be changed, in this way I will avoid to work/manage the ATM rotary from Baumuller !
I think I will buy and mount separate axis limit - switches on All axis !I try to declare the prezent limit switches on Mach3 but DON'T WORK FINE. If machine move with full speed or half speed when homing it cross over home limit and hit the -limit switch ! the limit-switches are wired on emergency chain and by hit de-energyze the drives, if drives are power off they don't move on Override limit set-up ! Bad thingh is : if I want to re-energyze drives, I can not, because the emergency state....
Need help on this , because I think somewhere I do mistakes.... :-[ ???
I stop to think at rotary Axis ATM managed by my old Baumuller drive and motor.
Got the Winbass software but is one pain in the A....s to comunicate with this drive, even you got the Soft ; it must to have the right version for your drive wich is almost impossible....
Conclusion/Fazit : Think 100 times before buying servo+drives and buy ONCE for future ! VERY IMPORTANT Check twice or 10 times the after -sale support contract or agreement !
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Hi Emil,
Hi All
I think I will buy and mount separate axis limit - switches on All axis !I try to declare the prezent limit switches on Mach3 but DON'T WORK FINE. If machine move with full speed or half speed when homing it cross over home limit and hit the -limit switch ! the limit-switches are wired on emergency chain and by hit de-energyze the drives, if drives are power off they don't move on Override limit set-up ! Bad thingh is : if I want to re-energyze drives, I can not, because the emergency state....
Need help on this , because I think somewhere I do mistakes.... :-[ ???
if you go back to page 8 of this thread, we had this discusion about limt switches and e-stop allready.
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Hi Thomas
I separate the switches already but not remove the Rl 10 .I will try it again with RL 10 removed from chain.
If I will have no succes then I will buy (and mount) separate limits switches for all axis XYZ -/+ .
thanks for "refresh"
BTW the winbass comunicate not with the drive because the software version.each drive have his own version.
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for a first test,
hit one of the limits and have a look what RL10 is doing.
something must be wron in this diagramm anyway,
because all the limits should be NC contacts.
Thomas
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Are there home switches as well as limits? If not then I would say you would be better off with separate home switches.
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Are there home switches as well as limits? If not then I would say you would be better off with separate home switches.
Hi Hood
Long time not see you (r post)!
Home switches are present.
For better understand this matter see the switches pics on to the page 8 of my worklog.
Those are for Y-Axis but the X&Z have same principle .My problem is that 1 switch is responsible with - and + and I think the soft can not discriminate wich is for - and wich is for +
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Hello Emil,
it is no problem for the software to handle + and - switch to be only one switch.
on my Weyrauch mill i have only one switch for + , - and home, also no problem.
Thomas
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As Thomas says, Mach or CSMIO does not care whether you have a single switch for + and - limits. On my Chiron it has a single switch on X, one on Y and one on Z. They are all linked in series (Normally closed switches) and if I hit a limit the machine stops.
Sounds to me like your Home switch is too close to your limit switch for the speed you are homing at AND the acceleration set in Motor Tuning. In other words the axes can not decelerate in the distance required before it hits the limit switch.
You have 2 options, actually 3. Reduce the homing speed, increase the acceleration or move the Home switch trigger further away from the Limit switch trigger.
Looking at the wiring Thomas posted it looks like the Limits are Normally Open, that is not really a good thing, much better if they are Normally Closed.
If they were Normally Closed then you could also have a momentary switch on your panel as an override so that if you hit a limit you can press and hold that switch and it will allow you to Reset Mach and jog off the limit.
Hood
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Hello Hood,
glad to se you back.
--Looking at the wiring Thomas posted it looks like the Limits are Normally Open, that is not really a good thing, much better if they are Normally Closed.
--If they were Normally Closed then you could also have a momentary switch on your panel as an override so that if you hit a limit you can press and ------hold that switch and it will allow you to Reset Mach and jog off the limit.
that is what i wanted to try to explain.
the drawing must be wrong, because if the switches are "realy" NO swtitches the
emergerncy will never come up.
Thomas
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Thank you for the informations
I will check and test the wiring and/or new set-up on this week.
I wonder why the machine on old config (osai controller) run very fast on G0 (25 m/min) against limits and cross not over the home to trigg the -/+ switch ???
I try set-up on Motor Home/Lmits the slow -zone very large 20-30mm but the machine slowing not on home moving.
Perhaps you could look on my xml file to see what is wrong ....?
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Hi,
i am not sure how you wired your encoders.
if you wired also the index of the encoders,
there would be a possibility to do a
home on index with the CSMIO.
Thomas
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Index is not wired.
attach is the manual of Dam 60 (BUM 60) drive , I not detected wich is the index.
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Hi
i think you are using incremntal encoder emulation X27
the it is pin 3 and 4.
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Right.But I assigned also to csmio A+ A- and B+ B-
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I wonder why the machine on old config (osai controller) run very fast on G0 (25 m/min) against limits and cross not over the home to trigg the -/+ switch
Is the acceleration the same?
I try set-up on Motor Home/Lmits the slow -zone very large 20-30mm but the machine slowing not on home moving.
Slow zone is used when jogging, it will start slowing down as it approaches the limit, it is not used whilst homing as when homing you have no idea where the switch actually is.
Much better with Index homing, it is much more accurate, it won't stop the overshoot however as that is caused by one of the issues I mentioned in the earlier post.
Hood
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Is the acceleration the same? - Unfortunate have no ideea what is the value of the acceleration on my old module....
My actual acceleration is now 0.4 ms.
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Right.But I assigned also to csmio A+ A- and B+ B-
if Z+ Z- is already connected than it only needs to be enabled in the plugin window.
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25m/min velocity = 0.41666m/s, so with accel set to 0.4m/s/s then it will take 1 second to stop.
Slow the homing speed or increase the acceleration or increase the distance between home trigger and Limit trigger.
Hood
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Thank you Hood
since
-homing speed is lowered at 20% (think is to low), trip on X=2700 Y=1700
I will
-set accel. to 0.2ms
-I will modify/made it longer the space between switches
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You should be increasing the accel rather than decrease. 0.2m/s means it will accel/decel at 0.2m.s so that will be double the distance that an accel of 0.4 takes.
If you set to 0.8m/s then it will take half the distance that 0.4 takes.
Hood
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ok, got it.
I made one error on think it only at the time ....
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Looks like a nice machine :)
Is the toolchange just a wine rack type setup or is it some other design?
I think maybe a macropump would be better than a brain for it but I suppose it depends how much you know about VB script.
Hood
Have you any ideea who can help me with a macro for ATC and multi drill head ?
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Looks like a good machine :)
Is the toolchange just a wine rack type setup or is it some other design?
I think maybe a macropump would be better than a brain for it but I suppose it depends how much you know about VB script.
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For the moment , the tool change it is a just a wine rack, if you are able to write a macro for it then You will be rewarded....
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make a description how the toolchange should work, and we will see.
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Viele Gruesse Thomas !
I have a bunch of VB codes to do !
1-with Vacuum
2-with my dust collection installation
3-the tool change is for me unimportant, I need to transform the tool change driver and servo motor to A axis
If you are able to dive in it , I will be very happy !
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so please describe (Inputs Outputs function) what the single things should do.
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Hi Thomas
Sorry for delay, I just finish to reconfigure/rewiring the inputs and the outputs those days.
I will attach the pics here:
the first problem is to configure the vacuum to on/off, and same with dust shoe up/down.
Thank you in advance for your support.
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so on witch way do you want to enable vacuum , GCode via M-funtion or external button.
same with dust shoe
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With M function via Gcode, also will be good to run it from RUN command, even in the middle of some programs.
Because need to check if evrythingh goes good with the tool and after go down the dust shoe....
I try to find the Mcode for on/off the coolant , and to edit it ; but I can not find it...
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you should find
M7.M1s -> Mist coolant on
M8.M1s -> Flood coolant on
M9.M1s -> All coolant off
in c:\Mach3\macros\your Profilename
if not, you can just create them.
thay will work with GCode and MDI Input and as well with Standard screenset Buttons.
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In mach3 macros csmio got no m codes for flood or coolant neither M6,7,9, perhaps those commands are deactivated.
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in a Standard Installation they are for example in C:\Mach3\Macros\Mach3Mill
if they are not in your profilefolder, you can copy them from there.
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Hi
I install mach on new pc, but the result is the same the codes for coolant are not under the macros directory; if you can help me to create some codes for my CNC it is ok, if you are busy and I disturb sorry !
I need some simple macro codes for engage and disengage some outputs, that's all....
Of course for help let me reward in some how your work.
thank you in advance.
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sorry i was wrong, there are no macro's for this Standard functions,
you only have to define the Outputs in Port's&Pins -> spindle Setup
and then in ports&pins -> Outputs your real CSMIO outputs