Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: bar553 on April 02, 2015, 04:45:16 PM
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Ok for the brainy people.....
I have a 3020, on an XP machine. With a Parallel port. I have Mach 3 set up to the point of being able to move the motors. all three axis work. I also have Mach 4 and Darwin, that I want to use to learn it, while I work on a Mill build.
I have all the same port settings and pin settings in both versions.
In Darwin setup, I get indicator light changes on the port page, when I jog the motors.
I get green indicators and movement on the velocity indicators on the motor tab.
I get a reset change when I hit the estop on the controller box.
BUT... I get no physical motor movement in Mach4
So I'm at a loss of what to try next.
I would appreciate your thoughts
BAR
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You have to set thing up botj on Darwin config and Mach 4 config...
Bit me as well.
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BOTJ ???
What does that stand for?
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Have you watched Arts video on setting up Darwin and read through this discussion thread on the forum "Mach4 Printer Port Discussions" lots of helpful information there.
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BOTJ ???
What does that stand for?
both - it's a typo
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I believe the video says that the motors should run, before you go to the M4 set up. so I have not done much in M4 setup.
I am working my way thru the 74 pages on printer port discussion. Have not found anything so far.
I will look at M4 setup again.
Thanks
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From the Darwin setup the reset should be green.... on the motors page I would start with the x axis..... set your ports and pins.... bump up the jog speed slider and from the jogball you should be able to move the motor.... and make sure your set to the right port on the first page.... for the parallel port you are using. you should be able to jog from the Darwin setup. if you have a charge pump to enable your drivers you might have to have that set up too.
Dave
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I have movement of the indicators when I use the jog ball. reset lights change as they are supposed to. The direction pins change color when you job the axis.
I have DRO movement when I use M4. The reset button on the control box changes the reset light.
So I think i have port communication.
I have no charge pump, and no home switches on the router i can find.
Even though the screen looks like something is moving, I get no physical movement, not even a hum from the motors
When I run Mach 3 with the sam motor and pin settings, the motors run fine.
I would really like to use M4, but its not looking good at the moment.
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you need to make sure you motor are set to motor o as x, motor 1 as y, motor as z in Darwin and M4
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That is how i have them, I just reviewed
I guess what i am looking for is the difference between M3 and M4........ since the physical connections work in 3 I assume all the ports and pins are correct in 4 what does 4 or Darwin require that i haven't set right yet?
Thanks for the help
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Art had said the simulator plugin sometimes causes problems with Darwin .....you could try removing that
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put up some screen shots
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After reading the 74 page print port thread, a lot of issues were solved by starting from scratch and making sure the loads go correctly
..........so I have uninstall and deleted everything I can find, I have licenses for this machine, and am not going to re-install M3 Hopefully I will be running when done, If not screens you shall see.........
Thanks
BAR
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BAR,
Just a thought, every time I make a configuration change in Darwin or M4, when I enable, then try to jog, I get the DROs to change but no motor movement. I have to click reset then enable again. Now motors will move. This appears to be a bug that has existed for a long time.
Hope this helps you.
Peter
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quite often you need to restart M4 for the changes to stick other wise you will have to do above but that may not make the changes stick so your better off restarting M4
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daniellyall,
I don't have to make any changes, just enter the config, exit, then enable. No motion the first time, then reset, and re enable and motion is back. I've reported this numerous times so I guess it's just lower down on the list as it is not a fatal error.
Peter
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Well I ve backed up a little.
I uninstalled and deleted all , and now when i install Darwin, and load M4 the machine hangs hard, with power off the only way to get it back.
The version i had installed before was 2313 the new one is 2336. The Darwin is the same version.
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yes that is a bug some people get when you enter info in the config or just go into the config you have to reset and re enable to get thing`s working again.
barr553 you may need to go into c/ drivers and remove the Darwin driver when you remove everything quite often it gets left behind when you remove everything and when you re install everything back in it can make it go silly.
also only have Darwin as a driver in your plugin folder sim can make Darwin not work at all.
there is a newer version of Darwin you will have to ask art for it
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Deleted Sim, and Darwin
M4 loads
Installed Darwin, attempted to load M4 got Unhandled exception error?
I'm wearing out the power switch rebooting so many times..........
May be time to sleep on it.
Thanks for the suggestions
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you need to restart the computer in between loading M4 and Darwin then when you select Darwin as the driver restart M4 then do the settings in darwin restart computer do the settings in M4 then restart M4 then it should be all good just remove sim after you first load M4 before restart and remove M3, M4, M5 macros from macro folder.
other than that it should work unless the address for the pp is wrong most times it`s 0x328
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If you uninstall Darwin to try reinstalling it ....you have to go into the windows device manager and uninstall it.... I wouldn't even worry about mapping the signals to Mach4 until you can jog the motors with the jog ball in the Darwin config. I would check through the ports and pins and make sure the negate check box is set right maybe try it both ways and just work on getting one axis going at a time. you said the e-stop works so I would assume your port address is right.
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I am back to as far as I have been.............
I have.............in Darwin
Deleted Sim
Deleted M3,4 and 5 macros
I have port 1set on 0x0378
motors 0,1,2 enabled
Pins for step 16,4,6 Dir 17,5,7 all on port one, negate checked on all.
input signal 1 set on pin 10 negated for emergency
no other inputs enabled, no outputs enabled.
I get green lights and velocity movement on when using job ball.
No physical motor movement.
M4 motors set at 10000 counts per unit,80 units velocity,8 units acceleration inch units
motors 0,1,2 enabled as X,Y,Z
homing as 2,2,1 order
input 1 as emerrgency enabled, no other inputs or outputs enabled
When viewing diagnostic page and jogging machine status changes from idle to jogging
feed rate goes to 40.8
i/o lights status input 1 green all others dark
outputs enable 0,1,2 all green others dark
When disabled, input 1 stays green, enables go dark
after a time, history file says license file failure and no more dro movement when jogging
If i load license, and restart as instructed, machine crashes.
BAR
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when you install Darwin do you run the test engine in the Darwin folder or do you use the setup.exe..... I checked this last night and you can run the Darwin test engine and move the motors without even having Mach4 open. did you bump up the jog speed and the accel in the Darwin setup... also you might try checking in the windows devise manager and make sure Darwin is installed and that it's on the same port address.
Dave
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Dave
The test engine without Mach open produces the same results, the jog ball goes green and the step pin in the port setup changes color. I bumped up the controlls and the speed looks good. I went to the Device manager, and i can find no place that tells me what Darwin is set to as far as port address.
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Typo in license file, it now works as it should
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don`t ya hate when that happens
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the license file works......... still no motors!!!
Patton your note is intriguing. Because it still acts like a port problem, but it worked with M3........... So does Darwin handle the port differently than M3?
Do I have to have anything in Outputs set?
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Here I thought ya got it running..... in my post I made a mistake.... and meant to say go into the dive manager and in the printer port and it will tell the port address... sorry about that... but I guess if Mach3 works and your using the same port address then Darwin should work too. you might need to have the enable on in the outputs. at least I think thats in the outputs.
Dave
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when you go into Darwin what does the water fail put out put up a screen shot of it
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hopefully this is readable
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two more
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well that looks really good incress to 25000 see what happens, it shows that it`s connected it all looks correct is there something that your bob needs a setting like charge pump
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It is a cheap, 3020 router. This was supposed to be my training ground while I built the X2 mill.
Best I know nothing else is involved, no pumps, switches etc M3 did not have anything set.
I do get some history when I try jogging occasionally, Darwin out of bounds errors. So the system thinks its working.
You don't know how much i appreciate the help, most of the time i don't know what to try next.!
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bar553,
If my failing memory serves me (it's been a few years since I set up my M3 system), Mach3 provided a charge pump output that one wired to the BOB. When I go to Mach4, I have to set the charge pump output to the appropriate pin or I get the results you are describing. May I suggest you check the docs on your breakout board and look for any mention of a charge pump.
Peter
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Thanks another thing to try............... no documentation, so experimentation here we go.
Just so i understand, set the charge pump (signal1) in Darwin output..............to a pin
Then enable charge pump 1in M4 outputs to that signal in darwin?
I may have to install M3 again to see, i dont recall enabling anything but I have slept since then.
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Progress??!!
With Chargepump1 enabled, and pin set to 9, i get "z" movement. Pin 14 I get some x movement. Saw a little y earlier, but cant repeat.
I really dont understand it, but it's progress.
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it could well be the bob has packed up they are cheap as *********e bobs with the movement was it with just Darwin running or with M4, with how the water fail looks you can push the pulse rate high
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bar553
I found this link to online documentation for the 3020 router.
www.marcmart.com/download/CNC%203020%20usermanual.doc
I notice the port and pin set data for the motors is different from what you described. The documentation shows ports and pins that are what I have seen in other instances but that is not to say you are wrong. Also, set the negate signal boxes as shown in the documentation.
The router does not appear to use a charge pump. The use of a charge pump on pins 9 or 14 to get movement tells me something else is going on. I have convinced myself that it is a configuration problem, not hardware (M3 works).
As suggested, don't bother with Mach until you get proper movement in Darwin. Messing with Mach at this point will only add confusion.
Peter
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I had the same thoughts, supposedly it should work with the test version, without M4 even on.... I have that manual in semi Chinese.
More playing tonight.
Thanks for the thoughts.
BAR
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here's a thought..... most stepper drivers have an enable pin on them.... when I built my machine I connected my chargepump to that pin on each stepper driver. so if the computer locks up or is not getting a good pulse it will disable the stepper drivers and theres no motion. if you don't have a chargepump you still have to enable the stepper drivers. theres so many different kinds of boards out there it's tough to say.
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Yeah, but it works with Mach3. That's the kicker with so many of my first ideas as to what might be wrong.
I'm really leaning towards a configuration problem, It can't be hardware.
Peter
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OK,
I'm confident in the port settings
I'm confident in the Motor pins and ports
The Input screen has only E-stop and it seems to work.
Homing settings on the motors pages is a question.
Home inputs are a question, as well as any other inputs
No Outputs are set....... should any be?
I have nothing set on any of the other tabs in Darwin.
I don't recall anything in the video about those tabs except if you need them.
In fact the video says I should have movement after the first motor is setup...
Thankyou for hanging with me. I saw a post that Art had retired, and he has not responded to my post on his thread. So other than hit and miss I don't know what else to do.
BAR
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I'm not saying it's a hardware problem... I'm saying that maybe in Mach3 there is a port/pin setting to enable the stepper drivers and maybe even one for each driver. it would be an output and would work as a e-stop kinda for the axises. without the use of that enable pin on the stepper drivers.... say if you hardwired them to be on all the time. then even in e-stop your motors could possibly take off on you.... it's a safety thing.
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There is nothing in the 6020 set up documentation about enables. And he does get some motion with Mach4.
I'm getting so intrigued by this I wonder how much a plane ticket would be to where he is. ;D
Maybe Skype would be more realistic.
Peter
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yeah but he said he got motors to turn when he put the charge pump on some pins.... I don't really know I just assumed that all stepper drivers had an enable/disable pin for a safety feature but I haven't seen that many... BAR if you still have your setup for Mach3 might be worth a shot to look at all the outputs and see if there is any for the pins you tested and got a motor to run.
Dave
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I just reloaded mach 3 to check that very thing, since I have determined M3 was not interfering with 4.
So I think we can assume hardware is plugged and setup correctly, M3 works with keyboard and mouse jogging.
I think it is some switch that M3 sets to a default and M4 needs some input.
I am going to start a fresh profile so if I set something in error or it is corrupt.
I live in the Denver metro area,, and have spare room, adult beverages and 3 mills, 4 lathes a 3 d printer, and a non working router for you to play with.
I may ship it to you in a week for 2cents. I thought i was doing well learning how to make chips, electronics is a whole different animal............ I dread the next project which is building a control box with a smooth stepper to use M4 to get CNC on the mills..
Oh well the weekend is here, lots of time to pull my hair out!
attached are the settings files, if you see anything interesting,
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bar553,
Pulling hair out has not worked for me. I'm pretty much out of ammunition but have many problems left to solve.
Looking at the ini file, it seems that you have enabled port 2 and it has the same port address as port 1. From looking at the documentation, you should not unable port two.
May not be the problem but...
Peter
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thanks I missed that, the problem is something simple like that i'm sure. Starting fresh profile so maybe help, I need to take notes on all i have learned to check, delete, reset etc.......
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Also, you have assigned port 2, pin 1 as the estop. Change that to port 1.
I'm still looking.
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You have assigned port1 pin 2 as the charge pump output with a frequency of zero. If you don't use a charge pump, and I don't think you d' looking at the documentation, disable the output.
The documentation shows the x s xis should be assigned as step pin 2, direction pin 3. All motors should have an x for the direction negate and a check fr the step negate.
Still looking.
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Sorry, I mixed Mach 3 and Darwin nomenclature. I shold have said check the negate box for all motor step signals and clear it for all motor dir signals.
Your e stop appears to be assigned to input Signal 2. It should be set to input signal 1. Then assign that to port 1, pin 10 and enable it. Clear the enable box for input signal 2.
How are you doing so far?
Peter
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The Chinese directions must be for a different manufacturer, The pin 2 and 3 on x does not work. I found a post somewhere that gave me those. I did have both dir and step set low, per that post, but i just changed the dir back to hi, and it made no difference to m3 both work. I also have the estop set correctly to input 1 pin 10 and it works.
Now to the wierdness..........
I setup Darwin, and before going to M4 setup, tried setting the charge pump signal 1 to pin 9. In Darwin, i could use the jog ball to move Z. It did not matter what motor i selected or how i set the axis's it only moved Z. I then moved to M4 setup and set output to same as darwin output. I rebooted to make sure it saved the settings...... no movement in M4. I removed M4 output, rebooted and went back to Darwin setup, and Z no longer moved. I went to M4 and Z now jogs in M4, with no settings in M4. Looking at the settings file it still has Output 1 set, so Darwin must control that, not M4......... confused yet, me too.
Bruce
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ok port 1 pin 10 negated - e-stop
motor0 port 1 pin 17 negated - motor0 dir.
port 1 pin 16 negated - motor0 step.
motor1 port 1 pin 5 negated - motor1 dir
port 1 pin 4 negated - motor1 step
motor2 port 1 pin 7 negated - motor2 dir
port 1 pin 6 negated - motor2 step
from what I can tell these settings should work and when you setup Mach4 never check anything as negated that's all done in the Darwin setup only. and you might have to map the enable in Mach4 to something.... maybe on the same port/pin as the e-stop not sure about that. if that's how ya had the ports/pins.... I'm at a loss as to what to try
Dave
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Ah, wrong documentation eh? That's probably not helping. ;D
Any labels, markings, etc. that might help us find the right documentation? From where did you acquire the router?
BTW, when you set up a charge pump signal, you set a frequency when active. In my case, I use 1000 Hz.
Peter
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It was an eBay purchase, and i should have inquired about documentation, but lesson learned, I have none. I have looked and the docs you mentioned, are the only ones I have found. They give the idea of what needs to happen anyway. Homing and Spindle control are next, along with keyboard inputs.
My whole idea was to learn the basics with a simple machine, while i work on building the mills. So i'm back on the path today.
What do you do with your CNC ?