Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Third party software and hardware support forums. => Topic started by: joeaverage on March 14, 2015, 03:32:01 AM
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Hi there,
I bought an Atom based single board computer and Windows 7 Embedded about a year ago. It runs Mach3 beautifully.
Since then I have seen a number of boards that would probably make a excellent standalone system for Mach3.
Is there any interest amongst users to collaborate on a project to build such a system or systems which may be of interest/value to the wider
community of Mach3 users?
Craig
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There are two new boards for embedded developers/hackers/makers:
Minnow board V2 (Intel dual core Atom) at $140US (try minnowboard.org)
Gizmo2 board (AMD dual core G series) at $200US. (try gizmosphere.org)
Both of these have integrated North and South bridge, CPU cores and GPU, both have Ethernet, HDMI, USB's and micro SD on a 4inch square PCB drawing less than
10W. There are subtle differences too, the Intel offering with SATA2 whereas the AMD one has mSATA.
Both have custom expansion connections, high and low speed with PCIe, SATA, serial of various descriptions, GPIO, CAN, SPI, PWM, video ports etc...
These boards are intended to be open source but to date neither has developed the following like the Raspberry and consequently there are few expansion boards about.
If I can find some other enthusiasts I would put my hand up to design an expansion board containing two PCIe slots for parallel port cards.
Maybe it would be better to have two PCIe to parallel chips and bypass the slot. Hey come to think about it maybe build the breakout buffering/logic on the one board and do away
with the parallel cable. Prehaps that's being a bit ambitious!
Craig
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Hi all,
thinking that the Gizmo board and the Minnow board maybe a bit ambitious particularly in absence of other contributors. However this board
[url]http://www.mini-itx.com/store/~D2500HN[url]
might be of interest. About $80US with one built in PP and a PCI slot for a second. Add a gig or so of ram a cheap and cheerful HD, rob your old power supply and monitor...$200US all up.
Install your preferred OS and cut chips with a 'crispy new' platform. Don't know about you but I paid over a grand for a highspeed spindle...
Craig
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I have a Foxconn mini on the back of a 17" Acer monitor, and it works great. 2-USB 3.0 ports, and 4-USB 2.0 ports, Ethernet port, WiFi
etc. I installed a 120 Gb SSD. It has run an ESS plasma machine, and is now running a little desktop router/engraver.
Has anyone considered using one of these 12" Tablets running Win 8 Pro. With a Bluetooth keyboard, it could be a complete system taking up very little space. It is a touch screen, and pretty powerful.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215871
There is a vid on Youtube of a tablet running UCCNC router; Mach3 would be no different. Just be sure to not get Win 8 Rt. The Rt version of windows will not even run the very popular Classic Shell for Win 8.
John
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Hi John,
I too am delighted with my new platform, the reliability of the new hardware and the stability of embedded OS has allowed me to concentrate
on machining rather than control system glitches.
I have not invested in an external controller so 32bit Win7 for me. My general machine (inside and in the warm!) is Intel i7 and Win8. I have M3
installed and use it to experiment with macros and things but can't machine with it in absence of a controller, not to mention licence aspect.
Personally don't like the Metro shell much but M3 runs fine and displays in a classic window. Are you suggesting that there is a version of Win8
that cannot display an app in a classic window? Would have thought that MS would shudder at the prospect that their customers can no longer
run desktop apps and thereby lose their custom and all those LUVLY $$$$.
Craig
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you should see if you can get M4 running on one of these types of boards using Ethernet or USB if you can it might be a little money earner for you if you can sale it with a screen and a motion controler
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Hi,
I think daniellyall is correct, many Mach users are running old XP machines which are becoming less and less reliable.
Much of the newer hardware or rather the newer Windows OS's have been problematic for a lot who have tried going
by the number of posts on the subject.
External motion controllers are the way forward and work on platforms/OS's that PP won't. I haven't tried M4 yet but
the forum posts indicate that it will be a better performer than M3 in time and will run on any well configured platform
of recent design with an external controller. Even the Darwin PP driver is living up to its 'best of the breed' billing albeit
constraining of OS.
A well priced solution like John has suggested could prove very popular.
Craig
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I would stay away from acer.
M4 as it is, is better than M3 I have run Darwin with no problems and played with using a ESS once I got it working properly I packed up an went home, reason I have never had the machine its on running better
as in +/- 0.02mm
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Personally don't like the Metro shell much but M3 runs fine and displays in a classic window.
Spend $3 for "Start is Back" and Windows 8 will be just like Windows 7, without the transparent title bars. :(
You'll never see the Metro interface again. ;D
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I went to the website of "Classic Shell", and under the topic FAQ's, they specifically state that it will not run on Windows 8.1 RT.
Also, I emailed the author of "startisback", and asked the same question regarding his program running on Win 8.1 RT. I just received the reply; Will NOT run on Win RT.
Win RT apparently is a totally separate kind of application from Win 8.0, and Win 8.1 Why MicroSoft would make such a program is anybody's guess. Windows 8.1 RT is the program on the MicroSoft "Surface" family of tablet computers. Mine is a Surface-2, and is certainly a nice tablet with a superb touch screen, and full size USB 3.0 port, memory chip port, sound port, HDMI port.
If I knew this incompatibility issue, I would not have purchased it. The MS "Start" package that you must work thru seems to be designed for social networks, and sending/receiving pics and music. They call the different applications "Charms" and in the several hours I have tried to use make sense of it, has been a totally "maddening" experience.
It almost seems to be more of a "psychological experiment", than a usable computer.
John
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Hi John,
do you suppose that you could install a different OS?
Secondly, if it could be done does the price stack up such that there would be interest from the Mach community?
When I was casting my eye around for a platform for my machine I all but discarded the industrial panel types on the basis of cost.
In the end I chose a single board computer miniITX as the cheapest option bearing in mind I could recycle monitor, power supply
etc. Memory and HD are new but the HD particularly needed to be new to achieve the reliability that my old XP machine lacked.
Under these circumstances a new platform could cost as little as $200, certainly not as slick but usable.
Craig
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Classic Shell website says:
What are the system requirements of Classic Shell?
Classic Shell supports Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2012 and Windows Server 2012 R2. There is only one installer for all and it covers both 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems. Not all features are supported for all versions of Windows.
Does Classic Shell support Windows 10?
Starting with version 4.2.1, Classic Shell supports Windows 10 TP build 10041 and later. Of course, since Windows 10 is not officially released, glitches are possible.
Does Classic Shell support Windows RT?
No, Classic Shell does not work on Windows RT (either 8 or 8.1). There are two reasons for that. First, Windows RT runs on devices with a different CPU, which is incompatible with regular Windows applications. And second, Windows RT does not allow non-Microsoft software to run on its desktop.
Is Classic Shell Free?
Yes, Classic Shell is free for both personal and commercial use*.
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John
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Looks like the new Surface 3 no longer uses RT.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/5/8552145/microsoft-surface-3-trade-in-offer-surface-rt-surface-2
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Thanks for the heads up Ger.
I read the MS info regarding the Surface Pro 3, and it is a pretty fantastic tablet.
They have a trade-in offer for the Surface-2, which I have. MS will give me $150.00 trade in if I send it back, and buy a new 12" Surface Pro 3. The new tablet starts at 780.00 and goes up depending on what processor you want.
They specifically state it will run ANY program that runs on Windows. It has an Intel processor.
John
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Nice how they tell you that last year's model is now obsolete. ;)
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Yes, that surprised me they outright say it is an "Obsolete" model. I've had the Surface 2 for less than 10 days. That is the first thing you see going to the site.
My guess they are getting blow-back from unhappy customers, and this is damage control.
However, the Surface 2 is really a superbly made computer, with a fantastic touch screen, very fast; long battery life of near 10 hours ( the screen dims if you don't touch the keyboard for a minute), micro memory module slot will support 64 Gb, Blue-Tooth 4.0, WiFi, MS Office, Excel, and some other MS programs. It is solid, and well built. It also has a two position fold-out back support that gives it a firm upright standing position. They do make good products.
John
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Hi all,
must say I caught myself feeling aggrieved that MS could so easily 'obsolete' a device still so new on the market.
As John points out it is a well made machine and will still run as intended for years to come. I can only presume
that you were aware of the limitations, namely only running MS authored software, at the time of purchase and
agreed with it.
The trade in deal sounds like MS have had to rethink that strategy. For all my bellyaching about MS I still use it
and value for money its pretty good. Apple appears a worse predator to me but they have a hell of a fanbase!
No matter what deal MS offer $780 plus is still over the top for a device that's going o be covered in crap
in the workshop.
Craig
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I learned the limitations of the Surface 2 when it would not run "Classic Shell", and I read their website FAQ's. Probably, if I had read more reviews on the internet that limitation would have been seen. I do not intend to send it back for a $150 credit on a Surface 3. I paid about 310 on Newegg, and it is still a nice compact portable tablet. I am writing this at Starbucks with the Surface 2, and a MA Bluetooth keyboard, which is also a very well made device. No wires, no charger to carry around, and a superb screen.
When I have some extra cash, I will get the 12" Surface 3, and be able to run Mach3/4, with a touch screen. No cables or wires except the USB connecting to the controller.
John
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I just "upgraded" my CNC's with a "newer" IBM recon from Newegg. It's a 3.4Mhz machine with 4gig ram, and most surprising it had a PP! I replaced the 160gig hard drive with a 1tb WD drive I had on hand. The cost of the PC was $99 w/free shipping and the drive was one I had picked up during their black Friday sale, and I think it was just $59. These reconditioned PC's they sell have been in use by industry or by government. As such, they've had a lot of "power on" time, so while they are used, they have been kept serviced. I always have a spare power supply on hand (and most everything else needed to build a couple computers for some reason) since I expect that the PS is the component most likely to fail first. As a bonus it comes with win7 home installed with a fresh serial number attached from the reconditioner. With win7 going for about the same $99 the system cost me, I feel it's a bargain.
As for MS and their proclivity to abandon OS that work nicely - I'm glad to have a PC that will meet my CNC needs for several years, that is equipped with a OS that supports the equipment and software I want to run on it. The fact that it cost less than a Chinese VFD, is a real bonus.