Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Johnny cnc on February 21, 2015, 07:03:38 AM
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Hi support
I have bought a CSMIO/IP-A +/- 10 analog controller and 4 sets of Leadshine EL5-750w ac servos.
I am not able to get the motors running.
If I connect the servodrives to a laptop I can run one motor and tune the velocity and torque loop with the Protuner program installed through RS 485/usb connector.
According to the manual only two rarameters have to be set to make an external drive take control.
The CSMIO is ok. I have cheked the analog output +/- 10 volt everything is fine here.
The problem is the Leadshine .
I have tryed only connecting 24v to enable the servodrive and I can hear that the drive goes on, but nothing happens if I put e.c.1,5 volt in the analog input.The factorysetting is 500rpm/v , so the motor schould run 750rpm.
Par.001=2 for torque mode
Par.400=30000
Then power off and on to reset the drive and everything schould funktion.Nothing happens.
Do anyone know what´s wrong.?
Could 4 drivers be defect?
Could some equipement in airport secutity destroy .
Hope you understand my Danish/English
Best regards Johnny Schmidt
PS. I wrote to Leadshine support, but everything is closed because of the Chineese Newyear untill the 27th
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There may well be a FWD/REV inhibit that you need to short out, or some other Input similar.
You may also have it in the wrong mode, maybe you have it set as Step/Dir input instead of analogue?
Do you have a link to the manual and software download?
Hood
Edit, see you have it set in Torque mode, so maybe my Step/Dir comment is void, but it may depend on other parameters so worth checking.
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Hi Hood
Thank you for quick responce.
I have tryed a lot of parametersetting according to the manual.Torque,velocity,position mode. Nothing runs.
All i/o are connected to a db44 pin connector and to that I have wired
24v +to pin 1 and 24v- to pin 2
for analog input pin 43-44 +/- 10v (differential)
Have also tryed pin 39 and 41 ,without result.
The step/dir. is not an issue for for CSmio-a
I dont have a controller to try the function step/dir.
It is just a bench Work for one motor/driver, so i haven´t
wired alarm and the other things except encodersignal.
That Works fine .I can turn the motorshaft and se the axis move in Mach3.
Right now I have disconnected CSMIO , just to try to get the motor run.
Thanks for helping me Hood.
I have seen a lot of Your videos . I can se that you are a clever guy.
Hope you will give the answer.
Best regards Johnny
http://www.purelogic.ru/files/downloads/doc/Leadshine/servodriver/el5-d1000/EL5_user_manual_Purelogic.pdf
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I will have a scan through the manual later but just wondering why you are using Torque mode rather than Velocity?
I think either can be used but the concensus seems to be Veloity is best for a machine tool.
Hood
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It is only an eksample from the manual, just to try something with known parameters.Have tryed velocitymode too, without luck.
I found a manual for tuning. It is from this manual, I had the parameters for torquemode.
I know that velocitymode is the right mode.
Johnny
Link for tuning with parameters.
http://americanmotiontech.com/Upload/Manuals/el5-dsm_v1.0.pdf
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Hi,
had a quick look to the manual, i think minimum wiring will be
pin 1 -> 24V
pin31 -> GND
pin2 -> GND for Servo on
not sure about pin7/8/9 to put them to GND
but have in mind, that all inputs off servo drive have to be
pulled to GND to enable them.
than use velocitymode .
Thomas
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Can you give me a link to the softwaree and then also attach a saved copy of your setup. That will hopefully allow me to see what parameters you have set as there are quite a few that could be important. For example there is a zero speed clamp, if that is not set correctly then it would stop rotation.
Hood
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Ok I found the software, if you can save your setup and zip and attach I should be able to have a look at the parameters you have set.
Hood
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Hi Hood and Thomas
I haven´t made other changes from factorysetting than parameter 001 and 400
all others are factorysetting.Maybe I have to wire pin 7-8-9 as Thomas wrote.
I didn´t wire 7-8-9 couldn´t find any discription of PL - RL ( still don´t know what they means)
I mean that pin ZS must be zero speed .
They call pin 1 Srom ( schuld be Sron= servo on)
I wrote to Leadshine support and asked , but they never answered.
I´m not sure if I can zip the file I will ask my son, when he comes home ( I am an old toolmaker better for hardware than software)
Maybe I have to wire the system as Thomas wrote.( thanks for the answer Thomas)
Johnny
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PL-RL etc just seem to be whatever they are depending on what mode you are in. For example if in Velocity mode they would seem to be internal speed commands. If that is the case then I do not think you want them connected. The manual is not that clear but it would seem that if Srom (n) has to be connected to Enable the drive then it follows that you do not want the others connected. The ZeroSpd one would be used as a safe stop in an E-Stop situation I would think, the signal would be applied which would stop the motion quickly then you could safely take away the Enable.
If you simply take away the Enable then, depending on axis friction, it could coast for a distance before coming to rest thus a lot of servos now have a means of stopping quickly under power in an emergency then you can disable. The drives I use on the Chiron have that function and I use a safety relay with a timer to control it.
Going back to your problem, I cant see anything that could be amiss with your setup if it is as you say, it should be working according to the manual, still would be better in Velocity mode though I think.
If you can get the file saved and zipped I can take a look and see if I can find a problem.
Hood
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Meant to ask, are you getting any info on the LED panel at all? Are there any entries in the Error log?
Hood
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Hi Hood
I tryed to wire pin 7-8-9 to ground as Thomas wrote.
It makes no difference.
Somewhere in the CSMIO manual I read that I schould use differential connection, that´s why I connected the +/- 10v signal to pin 43-44 and not pin 39-41 single end connection ( think it´s only for one way rotation)
I have saved the parametersetting on an USB stick , I vill send the file as soon as I can.
I´m very greatfull for your help and responce
Johnny
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Right now the display shows rpm´s.
I have tryed to alter the setting to input, to se
if my input volt was shown, but nothing came on screen.
There are no faults shown.Unfortunatly!!!
Johnny
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Hi Johnny,
normal if power is on and Servo-on input isactive, you should have torque
on the drive. if not ther is still something wrong withe the general servo on.
you have conneted the servo on to GND ?
Thomas
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Hi Thomas
The servo is on and there is torque on the motor , but still no reaktion on analog input on pin 43-44 Ai3(analog input3)
It don`t think the port opens.
I have tryed 3 different drives. It`s all the same.
param.001=1 velocity mode factory setting 001=0
param.400= 300 factory setting= 303
According to the Protuner manual that should be the only parameters to alter from factorysetting.
The drive should detect an analog input either single end connection(pin39/41)
or differential connection pin43/44.
Johnny
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Johnny,
if you enable the drive (torque) you should have in the display
rpms. is the rpm display allway 0 or is it changing (especialy if you
try to turn on the motor shaft manualy)?
Thomas
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Hi Thomas
It is changing when I turn the shaft.
I have tried to set the parameter LED instead of showing rpm`s
to show volt input , but the LED shows 0 if i put on e.c.1,5v.
That`s why I think that the input 3Ai don`t open.
Johnny
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Hi Johnny,
PA3.15 should be 0
have you tryed to use AI1.
for the moment i can not find any parameter for the
selection AI3/AI1.
Thomas
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Hi Thomas
I have tried Ai1, same result.I read that Ai1 is used for one way rotation.
Somewhere in the parametersetting I found a possibility to see which port Ai1 Ai2 Ai3 is active named a.b.c.
I could not switch between a-b-c .
I will try 315=0 when I come home.
Johnny
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pa.315=0 is factorysetting.
Still not running
Johnny
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param.400= 300 factory setting= 303
Johnny
300 and 303 are basically the same setting regarding Velocity Control.
You could set it as default 00030303 and it will have the same function for all modes.
May or may not matter, although some drives are sensitive to specific selections.
Also, be sure to cycle the power to the drive after any/every parameter changes to be sure they stick.
Just a shot,
Russ
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Looks like 0300 is fine from further examples given.
Also, just cycling the 24vdc Control will set many of the parameters as noted below.
Note: For parameters which No. have a suffix of “*”,changed contents will be validated when you turn on
the control power.
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Hi Russ
Thank you for your input.
Have just tried 30303.
The drive turnes on there is torque on the motor, but no rpm´s
???
Johnny
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Try setting pr002 to 1 and see if it makes a difference.
Hood
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Also look a pr3.24.
The description is not very clear but it seems to be a max speed allowable, you have it set to zero, try setting it to 1000 and see.
Hood
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Hey Hood , I saw 3.24 also but says it's at 3000 by default.
Where did you see it set to 0 ?
That would certainly make a difference.
Just curious,
Russ
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Johnny sent me his file a wee while ago. The weird thing is the default in the software says 0 yet the manual says 3000. I would think the latter is what it should be.
Hood
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I have attached the file, many eyes are better than two :)
Hood
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Ah .. OK.
I was assuming again.
Hope that helps.
Thanks,
Russ
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Hi again both helpers
I tried both 1000 and 3000. no difference
pr002=1 no diff.
But thanks anyway. I´m ready to try all you say.
But it is late in DK and I have to go to bed
Johnny
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Are you shutting down and re-powering after setting the parameter?
Hood
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Yes every time .That resets the drive.
Johnny
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ok, will look again and see if I can find anything.
Hood
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That particular Param. might just need the control power cycled.
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One more and I'll see ya tomorrow Johnny, sleep tight.
When setting a param on some drives, you need to exit that parameter and go to the next before that one will stick.
(I got tricked here with Fugi drives before)
When you go back in, do you see/verify that it was set as you wanted ?
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Pr 7.16 Encoder is set at 0 ?
Doesn't look like a valid entry for motor info.
Good night,
Russ
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Hi Johnny,
found something interesting in the software manual.
5.2 Velocity mode
First, you need to modify the parameter value of control mode in parameter manage window, make the value of
control mode to 1. then in monitor setting, you need to setup Pr4.00=000300,make the motor enable, then you
need to download and save the new value to the driver, then restart the new values of parameter to make them
available.
can you check Pr.4.00
have you worked throu this chapter 5.2 for velocity mode setup ?
have you checked the voltage on VI1 with a voltmeter ?
Thomas
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Couple of additional things, try setting pr5.28 to 11 and see if you can monitor the analogue input.
Open the waveform window and set one of the values to analogue and see if you get anything when you start the sampling.
Hood
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To Thomas
That was the first I did for a month ago and I have read the manual forwards and backwards several times.
And yes I have checked the voltage.
To Hood
I tried 5.28=11 for days ago and I wrote it too. The problem is still that there is no input.
Right now I have to wait on Leadshine support after 27.feb.
I´m pretty sure that the drives are not ok.I will send this link to the chineese support, then they can read it all if they want to.
To Russ
parametersetting is pretty easy to do on the laptop , you can upload and download to and from the drive as you wish.
And you get a message when you have saved the changes.
I bought the Leadshine product because of their ISO 9001 certification , it´s just not certificate you can buy.It should be a security for the customers.
I hope so.
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Leadshine seem to be a reputable company and I have heard decent reports about their support so hopefully they will get you sorted, just a shame for you it is the Chinese New Year :(
Hood
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Hi all,
the only thing i am wondering is, how should the driver know
witch analog input (AI1/AI3) is the one witch gives the velocity
setpoint.
i can't find a paramater to select.
for me it looks like you have to configure SI2 and SI3 to INTSPD1 and INTSP2
and connect both to GND to select the analog input.
not sure just a idea by reading the manual. but however it's not clear to me
how to select AI1 or AI3.
Thomas
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Hi again,
attached table shows setup for velocity mode.
so i am pretty sure with this INTSPD1 INTSPD2 thing.
Thomas
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Hi Thomas
I will try again. I´ll never give up, I have spend nearly 2 years to build the maschine and it is 98% finish.
Right now i´m feeling like the frog .
The motors runs so smoth and without any noise in trial mode.
I think Leadshine have a big problem, when the clever guys in this forum and an electroengeneer nearly has given up.
The manual is not sufficient.
But thanks anyway to all of you to spend so much time to help me.
I realy apriciate that.
You will hear a loud hurray across the Atlantic when the motors run.
Johnny
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Hi Johnny,
I think Leadshine have a big problem, when the clever guys in this forum and an electroengeneer nearly has given up.
The manual is not sufficient.
i think, You will never get a suppourt from leadshine (tryed this for weeks)
But thanks anyway to all of you to spend so much time to help me.
that is the german (ok. old german like me, and not an excuse for my bad english) way of thinking
You will hear a loud hurray across the Atlantic when the motors run.
you do not have to shout over the atlantic, just turn south and shout to Bavaria/Germany
ok. i have seen you are located in DK.
i have to go to DK in two weeks.
whrere are You in DK.
i will be in Haderslev, if it is not too far,
would be nice too meet You.
Regards Thomas
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Hello Everybody
News from Denmark.
I bought theese Leadshine EL5 servodrives on Aliexpress.com
The shop is called Hections Store.
Keep away from him, he is not a honest guy.
All material on he´s website is about Leadshine EL5 and I did not se that he sended me a much cheaper drive called
E5-750-E it is an economy model without analog input and only for the Chineese marked and only with a Chineese manual.
Hection told me just to Google translate the manual. What a joke.
I got a lot of help from Leadshine support from a nice guy named Clarke.
I wrote to him a lot of times and he gave me a lot of answers, but nothing helped before he asked me to take fotos
af the drives. Then he told me that it was not the drives we were tolking about.
I was really mad, spending so much time on drives without analog inputs.
I told Hection right from the beginning that I had the CSMIO analog controller.
I could prove that, so he asked me to send the drives back, then he would send me the right ones.
Now I have got the new drives, but still not the EL5-750, but some older E5-750.
He is a bad guy.Anyway now the motors run and the next is to tune the PID.I have never tried this before, so I hav to read something about it, because the autotuning in the CSMIO gives a bad result. I have to tune it one step each. I hope that I will find out.
I think you needed an answer for all the help You tried to give me .
Now I will wait for some rainy days, so I can go down i my basement.
Best regards Johnny
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Good to hear you are at least making some progress.
Have you got the tuning done between the servo drive and motor? If not then you will never get decent results with the tuning in the IP-A.
I found the AutoTuning in the IP-A gave reasonable results, certainly useable but messing around with the numbers fine tuned it nicely.
Hood
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Hi Hood
I have made some autotuning with the Leadshine software Protuner, the motor sounds good,
but I still get some PID faults in the CSMIO, I got a chock , when I did the Velocity tuning with
the protuner, because it´s wired to rs232, the E-stop and servo enable/disable didnt´t work.
Now I have wired so I can cut the power off the drives.
I am an absolut beginner in servotuning, but I do some positive progress.
I would be happy if I knew a guy in the area who could tell me how to do.
Right now I´m hopefull.
Johnny
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Hi
I know this is an old thread, but I am having exactly the same problem/symptoms with a Leadshine EL5-750 Servo drive that I'm fitting as a 4th axis to my old Morbidelli 504 CNC with a CSMIO/A controller.
Can you tell me how you identified your servo drive was an Economy model? The label on my drive just says EL5-750, and the LED panel will display the analogue input voltage it's reading, so I've been assuming it's capable of analogue input.
Many thanks,
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
The first servodrives i recieved was E5-750-E (E for economy)
and they did not have +/- 10v for analog input.Theese are only for step/dir. use.
The new ones I recieved works perfect.
I had some troubles about tuning and there is still a little sound from the motors, but
all axis run very precise and fast now, so I accept a little noise.
What is your problem ?
My new drives is E5-750
The chinese dealer told me that the only difference betwen E5 and EL5 is the EL5 is for export
to western countries and E5 for Chinese marked.
Best regards Johnny
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Maybe some parametersetting could be missing or not set correct
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Hi Johnny
My drive is marked L5-750, and Leadshine support confirm from the serial number that it does have analogue input/support. However because it was sold by an online (Aliexpress) trader rather than a registered Leadshine agent, they wont support it beyond this confirmation. I will contact the seller, but I don't have much hope they will help as they're primarily a vendor of second hand drives (though this one was new).
The symptom I am seeing is that the motor does not run when /SON is activated and an analogue control voltage applied.
To troubleshoot the fault, I have disconnected CN1 from the machine, and wired it in a simple test config as per the Trial Run config from the manual, and configured all the relevant drive parameters:
After lots of mucking around I finally put an oscilloscope onto the drive output to see was it was outputing. The waveforms I am seeing at the servo drive motor outputs look unusual (to me). They are:
1. With aux and main power to the drive, and /SON not activated, there is ~ 100V pk-pk waveforms present at the outputs (I assumed in this state there would be no output from the drive).
2. With aux and main power to the drive, and /SON activated, but analogue speed control turned down to zero, there is ~ >300V pk-pk waveforms present at the outputs. This could make sense in terms of applying holding torque to the motor, I'm just again surprised at the magnitude of the voltage.. I'd have thought holding torque would be a lot less than driving torque, so the output voltage would be commensurately lower, but I've not looked at drive output before, so am not really sure what 'good' should look like.
Adjusting the analogue speed control makes little difference to the waveforms (which matches the fact the motor doesn't move when the voltage changes).
After a few seconds, the drive errors with Error 100 (out of position), presumably because the encoder feedback is that the motor is not rotating.
The motor is a non-Leadshine 750W servo, with encoder fitted. The motor/encoder has worked successfully in a previous setup, ie:
- the motor rotates correctly (ie tested using a different servo drive)
- when I disconnect Power Terminal 2 from the drive and meter the U, V W motor connections, the motor phases measure correctly (about 5 ohms each, and all roughly the same)
- the encoder is wired correctly, as the servo drive reports no encoder errors, and when the E5-750 drive was initially connected to the CSMIO/A controller (ie encoder -> E5 -> CSMIO), when I manually rotated the servo motor, the CSMIO showed the encoder position changing correctly.
I've just ordered an RS232 cable to fit the drive, so hopefully when that arrives I can see what the Leadshine Protuner software thinks is happening, though again I'm not sure if it'll be much use.
Lots of head scratching going on..!
regards,
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
I tried to send the configuration of my servodrive,
but it was not possible to send an isr.file here.
I´l try to send the protuner manual instead.
If I can get your mail adress I will attach the isr.file
Maybe it will help
[johnny.sch@get2net.dk]
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Hi Andrew
Please send an email and I will attach my configuration,
maybe it could help you.
Importent: when you have made the testdrive connected rs232 to the Protuner
you have to disconnect and set parameter 0.01 to 1 manually on the drive.
Regards Johnny
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Thanks Johnny,
I've emailed you now at the address you posted above.. let me know if you don't receive it.
cheers,
Anderw