Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => SmoothStepper USB => Topic started by: jq_quint on January 31, 2015, 01:02:15 PM
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Hi Folks,
I've just received a new router from China and on the face of it its a nice solid machine. I have got it setup to the extent where i can move it around and start the spindle (with toggle or mdi) BUT no matter what i try I cannot get mach to actually control the spindle speed, i send an M3 s1000 (for example) out and it just ramps upto max speed (well i stop it well in advance).
So they set the machine up and tested it and actually videoed it running with speed control so i'm sure its wired correctly I just cant get my head around the mach settings to get it operating correctly. I was a mach user years ago on a lathe but i was given a complete xml with the machine so i didnt really have to learn how to do it..
I have traced my wires out between the c25 and the speed control board and sketched them below, can someone help me to assign the correct outputs/inputs for mach to allow full speed control in mach.
Thanks in advance.. J
(http://[URL=http://s906.photobucket.com/user/jq_quint/media/router/SMOOTH%20STEPPER%20WIRING_zpscndbjtd7.jpg.html][IMG]http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/jq_quint/router/SMOOTH%20STEPPER%20WIRING_zpscndbjtd7.jpg)[/URL][/img]
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mmm pic not linked...2nd attempt:
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/jq_quint/router/SMOOTH%20STEPPER%20WIRING_zpscndbjtd7.jpg)][URL=http://s906.photobucket.com/user/jq_quint/media/router/SMOOTH%20STEPPER%20WIRING_zpscndbjtd7.jpg.html](http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/jq_quint/router/SMOOTH%20STEPPER%20WIRING_zpscndbjtd7.jpg) (http://[URL=http://s906.photobucket.com/user/jq_quint/media/router/SMOOTH%20STEPPER%20WIRING_zpscndbjtd7.jpg.html)[/url]
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Well to add insult to injury I also cannot carry out any mdi XY or Z move, instead nothing happens then i get " the ethernet smoothstepper ran out of data . . etc etc etc" . I have the controller freq set to 1kHz on the ESS dialog setup page.
Is there any chance this is related to my spindle problems?
Just for the record it will happily jog in all axis and home fine and soft limits all work....
J
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ok so this morning i downloaded the latest copy of mach (mine was an old one), copied across my lic file, re-created my .xml and now I have a working mdi for xyz, result... ;D
BUT still no life in the spindle.. >:( .Although now when i mdi or toggle spindle the RPM window actually registers a value now whereas it was always blank.
Ive been through my mototr outputs again for spindle and i'm sure thats right, my only query is what should be in output signals......based on my sketch below what should i have in output signals against output 1 ? I have tried all sorts of permitations now...
I have attached my .xml if anyone would take a look i would be very grateful... ???
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im guessing my problem is on the output signals page... I'm really unsure what to to set to the #outputs and do I need an enable also???
anyone?
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Ok in the attempt that someone is reading this I have attached my mach screen shots of outputs:
Interestingly on the motor outputs if i use step & dir ports to 2 (which i believe they should be), all i get are relays clicking but no actual spindle movement. If I make both of these ports 1 then the spindle jumps into life but goes straight to max revs, regardless of m03 command..
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/jq_quint/router/IMG_11241_zpskk6bnaxe.jpg)
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/jq_quint/router/IMG_11251_zpsukyleakl.jpg)
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac263/jq_quint/router/IMG_11261_zpsbveoy7aj.jpg)
J... ??? ??? ???
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Greetings jq_quint,
Till more experienced help comes along, have you looked through the Configuration Manual ?
Here is a clip.
It give a great description of the various spindle set-up procedures.
Hope this helps a bit.
Regards,
Russ
:)
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I would have thought the company that made the router would have provided you with a working Mach 3 profile. Though, with much of the stuff from China I have seen people buy your lucky to get something that works properly.
First take a look at: http://www.soigeneris.com/Document/Warp9/Installing_and_Configuring_the_Ethernet_SmoothStepper.pdf
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Russ,
Thanks for the screen shot. I think I've tried that suggestion, I used pin 16 (which goes from the ess to the pwm pin in the controller) then used 0 as dir instead of 17 as shown in my screen shots. In this instance though what would I set the output signals page to??
Jeff,
Thanks for the link, I've actually read this but my problem is translating my pin outs into Mach, like I said to russ I'm struggling to understand what I set the output signals to.
With ref to chinese machines, well I can't comment this seems z nice piece of kit, and as its a hobby machine there will be no heavy production etc. I have been asking them for the .xml but something is getting lost in translation..
I guess I was hoping someone would be able to translate my basic circuit diagram above into Mach outputs for me??
Getting a bit desperate now.....
J
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Jeff,
One thing I will try tonight is to download all the latest drivers for Mach and the ess. Although if something was way out my other drives would work would they?
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I just noticed you have outputsm1&2 assigned to the same port &pin. I don't think that will ever work as the two logical outputs will be fighting over the state of the physical output. What you should do is disable output 2, then go to the spindle tab and tell Mach to use output 1 for both CW and CCW spindle on. You also have to tell the ESS configuration screen what sort of spindle control you have.
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Jeff, great feedback,
ok understood, so here's my question should output 1 be selected as pin 16, which as you can see in my diagram at start of post is pwm signal or 17 which is direction.?
When you say the ess screen you mean the config drop down screen?
J
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Output 1 has nothing to do with PWM. Typically a motor speed control has a 'start' input (digital) and a 'speed' input (analog). Some speed controls may also accept PWM directly but for the most part you will have a PWM->analog converter. Your Output 1 pin would go to the 'Start' input and the PWM 'step' pin goes to the PWM input of your converter (or speed control if it accepts PWM directly.) The 'direction' pin on the PWM setting is not used but the ESS will whine if you don't set it to something. You can use something bogus like Port 5 Pin 1.
The ESS configuration is in the Plug-in Control menu in Mach 3.
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I was hoping i was going to have a better night tonight on this after your advice Jeff, but alas its still not doing what i want it to..
So this is what i've done:
> updated ESS plugin to latest
> In motor outputs used spindle pin = 16, dir = 1, step port=2, dir port = 5
> Removed output signals output2, and changed Output 1 to ?????? (this is where im still guessing)..
Jeff - I'm missing something about your explanation above about this output, on my sketch in my first post, I only have the following output pins connected to my stepper board:
Port1
pins 2 to 9 = xyza motors
pins 11/12/13 = Inputs for homing xyz
pin 14 out - goes to a relay that if i make active signals all homing switches on the diagnostic page so im guessing this has nothing to do with spindle..
Port2
pin 16 out = pwm (and goes to C41 control board
pin 17 out = dir (also goes to c41 board)
So if i dont use the pwm pin (16) in the output signals page and dir isnt needed I dont seem to have any other outputs from my stepper board to use here???
Am i missing something?
What is strange is that the ONLY way i can make my spindle rotate is if i change my port to pin 16 (against spindle motor putputs) to 1 instead of 2, but this is where it goes straight up to max!
Now how can that be if pinout 16 on port isnt even used???
I had talked my self (at work today while stewing over this) that I could run this way short term and turn the pot down on the vcd (sunvar300a) but when i did this no reduction in rpm?
J
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I am starting to question the wiring on this setup as the C41 PWM control board doesnt seem to be wired as per examples I have seen on the web (i.e no use of the boards on boards relays to control direction etc). So i have emailed the gents at cnc4pc and requested some feedback on what i have in place.
What is freaking me out is that I have seen a video of the suppliers (the company in china) actually control the rpm via mach, the used m03s1200 and had a corresponding 200hz on the vfd, then an mo3s2400 which took it upto 400hz.....
So unless they then moved some wires around why wouldnt it be right now???
Totally throwing me at the moment.....
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Jeff - Ok well on inspection late last night I can't see how it ever tested right. The fwd from the vfd is looped straight to yhe common, this must be why it Ramps straight up as soon as it gets signal. Later I plan to draw up what I have and post up to ensure you agree that it can't be right...
J
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Well after all that I now have a working spindle...its not 100%, as i suspect the spindle motor needs tuning (over the rev range the vfd hz dont always calc to the theoretical rpm) and I haven't figured out reverse but its working in m03 spot on now..
I had to re-wire the spindle to the C41 board and change my settings in mach to suit the attached cnc4pc data card.. (God knows why the supplier did what they did!), I don’t really understand my new mach settings, which has been my problem all along (disabling the spindle relays) but hey it WORKS!
PLUS had some very handy data sent across from MVOROS, who thankfully took time out to send me some data to help me sort my head out....praise to you my friend!
For anyone else reading this with similar problems now or 2 years from now, see my attached wiring diagram and mach settings (from cnc4pc) and my .xml...(my machine is a 6090 router with sunfar c300a / ess smooth stepper / c25 board / c41 pwm board....)
Jeff - Thanks for your guidance too, you helped steer me towards something not being right with machine.. :)
J
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I have talked to a lot of people who have purchased a 'cheap' machine from China (typically via EBay) and have yet to come across one that actually worked correctly. I know that China is full of smart folks who can make top notch products but what everyone wants is 'cheap' and 'cheap' is what we get.
Don't get too hung up on getting an exact RPM as it is not usually that important. With a 20,000RPM spindle if your within a few hundred RPM your fine. You may want to double check the motor specifications and see if they programmed the VFD correctly for that motor. Some VFDs will have an 'auto tuning' that will set the PID, etc. don't run it until after you program in the motor specifics though.
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Did you ever get your spindle working via Mach 3?
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Did you ever get your spindle working via Mach 3?
Hey bud, wow 2yrs ago was last post....
Yes I've been happily using it since this thread finished......
Very happy with my Chinese purchase..
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