Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: sbirdranch on January 01, 2015, 11:35:24 AM
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So I am starting on my way to building a CNC and as usual am learning my fire.
My goal is a 3 axis spindle machine that I can change the head on and run plasma. I would like to use Mach due to the large community and knowledge base.
So here is screw up number 2 on my part. I aquired a 64bit Windows 7 pro, completely missing the "Mach3 doesn't work with 32bit Parallel ports".
The question now is what to do.
It would seem the cheapest answer is to buy a 32 bit machine for <$100us and find something to do with the other machine I bought for this purpose. All the documentation is out there and it is a well traveled path to success.
~or~
Buy a motion controller. This is a very gray area for me. All the advertising is that motion controllers run faster and smoother. Price goes up for sure.
Given that I am just getting started with this and it is not currently an income stream for me, I'd like some opinions on how best to proceed. I don't mind spending the money if the performance will be worth it in the end.
Thanks in advance.
P.
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I also bought a computer running 7x64 with a smoothstepper. You should know that as far as I can tell, Mach 3 torch height control is dependent on having the port driver installed. As far as I know the thc function is the only way to adjust the z axis through Mach while cutting. At this point, I'm going to try uninstalling the 64 and installing the windows 7 32 bit so that I can at least install the port driver. I am hoping that this at least will fully enable the thc in Mach even though I don't have a printer port. Bear in mind that I am also a newbie. If more experienced users have something to add or think I'm wrong, their probable right.
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Well...there's a thought. I could just install a 32bit OS. I wonder if anyone else has tried that in this application. Thanks for the idea.
P.
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Get the Ethernet Smooth Stepper. The best option for the money & you can keep the 64bit OS. For what it's worth, don't buy a cheapo USB motion controller! It won't support THC! The Smooth Stepper does support THC.
Brian
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Just finished my second machine with 64 Bit OS. As BLM stated, don't go with cheapo usb motion controller. Although I went with CSMIO-M by Cs-Labs it was between it and the smoothe stepper. The original control board was Chinese control board and it had to go. As far as the 64 bit system controlling it I couldn't be more pleased. Im sure that if you purchased a new computer your OEM will send you a 32 bit OS for it. We have to do that at work from time to time. You will then have to add parallel port cards to interface with mach if you choose to go that route. There is good support on the forum which ever path you choose. Good LUCK!!!
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BLM,
So you've used the Ethernet smoothstepper with the Mach internal thc logic? I thought a lot of the thc functions were on the port driver. I'm not trying to challenge you, I just can't find a straight answer about using the ess smoothstepper with a thc. I don't really want to get away from the 64 bit, I just need a torch height control that works with the ess smoothstepper and has some sort of manual control for slow speed oxy\fuel on thick plate. Any suggestions would be great.
Neil
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Best bet would be to contact Greg and see if the ESS can do what you want. I know it supports THC functions but not sure if it will do exactly as you want although if you do not have a THC then it may be possible to set up a couple of switches to simulate one.
Also check out the CSMIO products, I believe they too support THC, so might be worth an email off to them as well.
Hood
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Since I installed the ESS I have had THC working. However, lesson#2; don't use cheapo THC either! I have a Proma which work whenever it feels like it. I am planning to install a THC from Texas Microcircuits, as soon as time and money allows.
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Ok, so my problem is that reading through past discussions, I have seen people state that some of Mach's thc logic is written on the port driver. No one ever explains exactly what thc functions will be lost by not installing the port driver.
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I'm somewhat new to Mach3 so I don't know all the specifics. But from my experience and research it seems the built in Mach3 THC logic is erratic and somewhat difficult to get to work reliably. So, in reading info on other brand THC it seems that the ones with a dedicated plugin would be the most responsive and reliable. I also look for a system that is built and supported by a real person that I can talk English to if I have issues. ;)
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agrotech
Hopefully I can clear things up a bit.
Things like THC, Lathe Threading and Probing require very fast I/O and so they do not get executed directly in Mach itself. Art wrote them as part of the parallel port driver which can process things at the required speed.
Now if you use an external controller then these functions need to be supported in the plugin for that device. The reason is as above, they were in the driver and because you are using an external controller you are no longer using the driver.
So even if you were to install a 32bit OS so that you could install the driver, you would not be using the driver if you continued to use an external controller, the only way to use the driver would be to use the parallel port for your motion controller.
As mentioned the SS/ESS supports THC, the CSMIO products also support it, how well they work I have no idea as I have never needed or used THC.
Most of the other reputable controllers will also likely support THC, the lesser Chinese type will almost certainly not.
Hood
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Thanks, I'm new to this and talked my boss into buying a used plasma table. Now the pressure is on to get it up and running and I'm wondering what I got myself into. :) Your answer helps clarify things.
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THC functionality is not lost with an external motion device rather the external motion device mist support it.
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I also have windows 7 64 bit, get an external motion controller; UC100. About $125. and works great.
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I'm somewhat new to Mach3 so I don't know all the specifics. But from my experience and research it seems the built in Mach3 THC logic is erratic and somewhat difficult to get to work reliably. So, in reading info on other brand THC it seems that the ones with a dedicated plugin would be the most responsive and reliable. I also look for a system that is built and supported by a real person that I can talk English to if I have issues. ;)
My two-penneth if I may.
I've been building THCs for quite a few years now and in my experience Mach's parallel port THC functionality is neither erratic nor unreliable. I actually think it's very good. What ARE erratic and unreliable are SOME of the THC's out there. However, these THC's will be every bit as erratic and unreliable regardless of whether you use the PP or an external controller.
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Please Stirling,
If you have the knowledge and insight then explain to me a problem that nobody has been able to answer. If a program is running and the THC up or down command is given Mach3 will not move Z. Sometimes if I pause the program then resume it will work the rest of the code. 9 out of 10 times tho it doesn't work to the point where I don't even expect it to! I would love to have somebody tell me what is wrong! Thanks, Brian
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Any ideas why my CNC Z movement is so far off? I have configured and re-configured so many times and it doesn't change. Using Mach 3 with a Chineese CNC(ya I know I screwed up there) I use inches. The x & y are fine, but the z seems to be moving in mm's. from max + to max - the z dro reads 54.2 when it is only a 4" movement. Like I said the x & y move correctly.
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Hmmm...cheap Chinese machine not working right? What are the odds?
If you can post a copy of your profile maybe someone can help. Without seeing all of your settings it is like asking a mechanic to diagnose your car without lifting the hood :)
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If only I had known. It's a Dongda TS3040C-H80 4 axis.
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Brian you really should start a NEW subject as to avoid confusing answers. I am with Striling I have used the THC for years with Mach3. I suspect you have other problems. What controller are you using Mach3 LPT or other ??
(;-) TP
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Please Stirling,
If you have the knowledge and insight then explain to me a problem that nobody has been able to answer. If a program is running and the THC up or down command is given Mach3 will not move Z. Sometimes if I pause the program then resume it will work the rest of the code. 9 out of 10 times tho it doesn't work to the point where I don't even expect it to! I would love to have somebody tell me what is wrong! Thanks, Brian
The thing is that you appear from your earlier posts to be using a Proma and an ESS. Therefore Z movement has absolutely nothing to do with Mach. Simply put, the Proma should be sending the appropriate Up/Down commands to the ESS and the ESS should be sending out the appropriate pulses to the drivers. The only connection with Mach is that the ESS should just be telling Mach where it is every "now and then" so that Mach can update the DROs etc.
So just to be clear. Any erratic behavior you're experiencing is down to either the Proma or/and the ESS. Not Mach.
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Sorry, it was not my intention to divert the thread! I was just just trying to gain some help from someone who claims to have the answers. BTW I have started the subject before and gained little help! Thanks for any input! I will be on my way!
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Brian - I think you may have missed my answer.
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Stirling, I'm sorry I came across as downplaying your advice! I see through your answer. It just frustrates me when I have a THC that is commanding movement and it gets blamed for the non movement problem because it was cheap! BTW I am not going to promote this THC, and have intentions to upgrade as time allows. I do not have a vendetta against you, just my problem in general! Peace! Brian
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Hi Brian - I think some weird communication by text thing must have happened.
IMO You've asked a perfectly reasonable question. I'm not aware of anything I've said that could have caused an issue but if I've done so inadvertently I apologize.
It wasn't my intention either to criticize the Proma or the ESS - actually I can't see where I have but just to be clear, I wouldn't do because I've never used either.
I've just tried to explain that it's just a matter of fact that when using ANY external motion controller, Mach has no involvement in controlling the Z axis in response to ANY THC. The only situation where Mach could be a candidate for "blame" is if you're using the PP driver.
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So getting back to my original query....the 64bit decision...I thought I would give you an update as to what I have done and how it is working out.
Based on advice here, I went with keeping my machine (64bit Win7 Pro) and adding an Ethernet Smooth Stepper (ESS) board. I paired that to a C10 board figuring I could add more later.
Although this was not the cheapest direction, it did seem to me to have the most long term use.
- I could use it on any computer.
- I didn't need a separate video card.
- It produced better motion control (so I hear).
- It had all the expandability I needed.
- The documentation and community support was there as needed.
I mounted the ESS inside the computer chassis with the light and ethernet plug out the back. I moved the DB25 plugs to the two blank expansion locations. The computer had an unused molex connector so I stole the 5v and Ground from it to power the board.
With this setup, I can take the entire controller from machine to machine (future proofing) and all that is committed to the machine is the break out board (BOB).
I followed the directions from Soigeneris (where the ESS was purchased from) for system setup. I had a Mach3 profile started with only the X axis configured. I wired up a single axis and hit the shuttle button.....Bam! Perfect.
It was extremely easy and straight forward. With this milestone achieved, the rest of the build is just going through the motions (ha!). I have a design drawn out and all the components in house. I'm heading to the shop now to build out the controll box. It is too cold to start working metal today.
If you want to share in my excitement....here is a short video I made for my cousin who is keeping track of my progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaKHA0oVIH0&list=UUYG7bdfSLBOwKxFfchex0Dw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaKHA0oVIH0&list=UUYG7bdfSLBOwKxFfchex0Dw)
Thanks for everyone's input...even the discussion on THC's. Part of my build includes a table for Plasma.
Preston.