Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( What you have made with your CNC machine.) => Topic started by: Tweakie.CNC on December 28, 2014, 02:56:24 AM
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Despite the high levels of technology that have been incorporated into professionally manufactured, machine wound, strings the demand still exists for the purpose-made string (like there is sound and there is sound there are strings and there are strings – there can be a world of difference to those with a trained ear).
A good friend and Luthier has been making classical Guitars and manually winding his own strings for many years now and together we are investigating CNC machine winding. My involvement is solely with the Mach3 side of things and to this end I have adapted Benny & Brian’s Coilwinder screenset for the purpose.
In order to check my macro code and attempt to resolve some of the mechanical issues I have constructed a small (1/8 length) test rig and thought these pictures may be of some interest to others.
It’s early days yet and it can only get better so stay tuned folks. ;D
Tweakie.
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Too F___ing Cool 8)
I love it, One of those many things I took for granted. (not having an ear for anything other than "dinners on")
Good Job, keep us in the loop with a quick video of it in action please.
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Thats slick Tweakie................ very slick.
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WOW.
I'm still amazed at the unique things people do with their cnc's.
Very cool.
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Tweakie,
Yet another very ingenious use of Mach3 and cnc from a master.
John
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WOW with the VAST variety of guitar strings and I do mean VAST. I cannot image needing to wind your own.
BUT neat idea, (;-) TP RPM and Feedrate gets it done. But getting the proper tension on the winding wire AND the core wire might pose a problem.
(;-) TP
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Thanks guys for the kind words and encouragement. As soon as I can I will make a short video of the test-rig in action. It is rather crude and does not incorporate the refinements of the actual winding machine but it does demonstrate the principle.
‘WOW with the VAST variety of guitar strings and I do mean VAST. I cannot image needing to wind your own.’
I am inclined to agree with you on that one Terry – I am really not sure why but, as we say here, “There is nowt so strange as folk” :)
‘But getting the proper tension on the winding wire AND the core wire might pose a problem.’
I have found that getting an exact, ‘pre-defined’ tension on the core wire is extremely easy but an exact, ‘pre-defined’ tension on the wrap wire may yet require a bit of cunning electronics (on the test-rig the wrap wire tension is set by ‘trial and error’ but, as yet, I have no way of measuring it precisely).
There are still a number of technical issues to be overcome but I am getting there slowly. ;)
Tweakie.
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Here is a BIT of info on the winding variables.
http://bobbyowsinski.blogspot.com/2014/11/making-great-guitar-string.html
(;-) TP
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Thanks Terry - excellent information my friend. ;)
Tweakie.
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A short video winding nickle wrap wire onto a music wire core.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tweakie-cnc/15565495153/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tweakie-cnc/15565495153/)
At the moment tests are limited to 2,000 rpm as I have encountered technical issues when running these 200 step per revolution motors at speeds over 2,500 rpm.
I am currently awaiting delivery of some different (24 step per revolution) motors which should be good up to 15,000 rpm whilst, hopefully, still having sufficient torque for the job.
Tweakie.
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Do you have a tensioner on the wrap wire ??
When you get a complete set wound send them over for a good testing (;-) I am due for a new set here .
(;-) TP
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Hi Terry,
The test rig just has a felt pad friction type of tensioner for the wrap wire - it works but it is crude and only suitable for testing.
I am not yet sure of the benefits but measuring the wrap wire tension as close as possible to the actual wrap seems to be favored so I am currently working on an electronic device which uses a rotating version of the conventional 'dancer' to measure the actual tension in a feed-back loop to a disc brake on the wrap wire spool. This will be fully adjustable, for the different wrap wire diameters, and provide 100% repeatable results - assuming it works.
The full size machine has just gone through it's third rebuild but I think it is going to be a long way off before it will be winding a full set of strings. ;D
Tweakie.
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That machine is just like you Tweakie............... very cool! 8)
Brett
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Tests have now been carried out with various wires and these have 0.006”, 0.013” and 0.020” diameter phosphor bronze wraps.
Still learning as I go. :D
Tweakie.
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So have you completed a set? How do they sound? Have a video to post? Nosy little bugger, ain't I?
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Have Guitar, can test 8). I think you bought those at the store >:D
Good Job Tweakie, You make us proud (;-) TP
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Thanks for the kind words guys.
The machine is currently awaiting new stepper drivers which will operate at a higher voltage and tests have shown that this will hopefully (32 x sq. rt. of inductance and all that) double the winding speed.
The significant difference (visually) between these 'custom strings' and 'store bought strings' is that they are finished both ends to a defined length. This initially caused problems as the actual number of turns of wrap can differ considerably from the theoretical (calculated) number but, on the plus side, it can use a round, cross section, music wire core instead of the hex / oct sections usually used.
Development of the machine and the controlling software will no doubt continue way into the future (a bit like a CNC machine never being totally finished) and when the time is right I will try to get some video's made of it in action.
Tweakie.
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The reasoning behind the Hex/Oct core wire is to help keep the wrapping wire from unwinding under tension and changing the tonal qualities.
Just a thought (;-) TP
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The reasoning behind the Hex/Oct core wire is to help keep the wrapping wire from unwinding under tension and changing the tonal qualities.
Just a thought (;-) TP
Quite right Terry. ;)
Tweakie.
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HEY Tweakie I popped an A string could ya wind me one up ? I used medium light.
(;-) TP
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Hi Terry,
As mentioned previously I am concerned with winding custom strings to fit custom instruments and they are visually different to standard strings. They are finished both ends (ferrule / loop) to a defined length and wound on a round core so cannot subsequently be cut to a shorter length.
Bearing in mind the postage cost (UK to US) is likely to exceed the value of the string if you PM me with the diameter of the music wire core (inch) and the diameter of the wrap (inch) plus the overall length (mm) and if you require phosphor bronze or nickle wrap then I will give it a go. ;)
Tweakie.
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;D HIYA Tweakie I was just pulling your leg >:D
(;-) TP
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Hi Terry,
Phew, that’s a relief. ;D
To fit one of these strings (which has a loop at the machine end) to a standard instrument you would need to make and fit a short pin which is 3.5mm diameter stepped down to the diameter of the string hole in the machine head peg. Then measure the required string length allowing for ½ a turn of the machine head peg with the string tensioned. Once the correct length has been determined only then can the string can be made – much easier to buy and use a stock string. ;)
Tweakie.
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Really great job, congrats Tweakie 8)