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General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: Ya-Nvr-No on October 29, 2014, 07:13:32 AM

Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on October 29, 2014, 07:13:32 AM
Note: Split this off from my "Hog Heaven" post (but don't know how to move it to the Show "N" Tell (Your Machine) section)

Took a CD reader carriage and adapted it to control the Z axiis focal plane to my laser build/upgrade. Small screw with jam nut for limit switch home position. These use a stepper motor that adapt well for cnc control.  Pretty much an all day project, but does work very smooth.  I was pretty happy with the outcome, using an out of date CD reader that was just collecting dust. ;D


Thanks Scott Nichols for the move (Admin)
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on October 29, 2014, 09:04:59 AM
Very nifty idea for setting the focus - I will have to remember that one  ;)

Tweakie.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on October 29, 2014, 09:09:41 AM
Thanks, but I'm looking forward more to 3D laser burning using Arts new planned project, and to have additional control of depth of burn. Some of the signs I make have a lot of relief and having the z axis focus control I can create some interesting detail. (Least that's my hope)
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 02, 2014, 05:37:32 PM
Got a little further with the Laser X axis, belts on and moves smooth. Hopefully get the Y axis done this week
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 04, 2014, 08:10:47 PM
made an aluminum frame to hold the axis bed
took about 5 hours to cut and assembly.
more time to design and get a handle on how I could make what I had work.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: dude1 on November 04, 2014, 08:37:38 PM
very nice are you going to use Arts laser controller with it
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 04, 2014, 08:43:49 PM
Thanks, Yep controller is all built and tested, I just need to get this thing done.

Hoping to use Parker Servos for the X & Y and steppers for the two Z axis's

making design provisions for a hinged top and pass thru sides
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: dude1 on November 04, 2014, 11:19:28 PM
your way ahead of me then still have everything in bits
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 05, 2014, 05:09:48 PM
Here is a photo of the control box.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: dude1 on November 05, 2014, 06:33:03 PM
my lay out will be a bit different I am using recycled switches  
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 07, 2014, 07:03:34 PM
NP, I didn't expect to see two control panels alike.

got the Y axis just about ready for the belts.
home switches are mounted.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: dude1 on November 07, 2014, 08:34:32 PM
its different looking.
once I get my panel and everything fitted and working on my emco. still weeks away have other work I have to get done before xmas

I will build another small engraver It will be like a laser you buy but made from recycled parts I collect dead or unwanted printers so it will be belt drive it will only be x,y motorised with a hand adjustable Z  and a base that can move up and down.

its based around a plotter but a bit stronger
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Overloaded on November 07, 2014, 10:53:37 PM
Hi Craig,
 Looks like there will be plenty of rigidity in that "cube".
Do you think you will need any diagonal corner brackets ?
I put some of that stuff together by tapping the 4 holes in the end with 1/4-20 and it is solid as a rock !

I might get to the inventory later this weekend, going out of town Tue., so it might be after that.
Looks real nice !
Thanks,
Russ
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 07, 2014, 11:05:33 PM
Thanks Russ
It does feel solid but the test will be in action and if the quick stop and go loosen the connections. Easy to add support if needed.

Its coming along nicely. Thanks again
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 11, 2014, 10:09:52 PM
Couple of videos of the servos and the PMDX-422 in testing phase

Table Lift:
http://youtu.be/TxBKOSu0Mls

X Axis @1500 inches per minute:
http://youtu.be/L1ByGb-z8Jk


Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Dan13 on November 12, 2014, 12:38:34 AM
Very nice! How did you get the RH and LH ball screws coupled? Soldered? It's so neat that I can't tell...

Dan
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 12, 2014, 06:24:42 AM
Thanks but, that is a purchased item, comes with a 3 phase stepper motor that I replaced for better speed and lifting capacity.  

http://www.lightobject.com/Motorized-power-Z-table-600x400-50lb-load-P902.aspx

Thou I'm not sure how id test for what the limit might now be.
Scissor lifting tables are not linear in there ability to lift weight or position.
the graph shows some rough plotted points I'd created.
I believe the higher up on the travel the more ability to lift heavier objects. But not sure how they rate weight limits.
Suppose I could research it, but screw it, too busy right now.  :D

So screw mapping has to be used and I will need a Motor_2_Map.dat file to be created. (but that function is not quite ready as of yet in mach4)

Id purchased a 40 watt CO2 unit from them a couple years ago and now tore it all apart for this upgrade.
If I keep it lean I should have about $3500 in the whole project including the original purchase.
Never liked the small work size or the lack of height control.
But learned about laser cheaply and now attempting to make it a functional unit.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Dan13 on November 12, 2014, 06:49:50 AM
Cool. Didn't know there were such ready things..

Dan
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 13, 2014, 06:26:49 PM
Mirrors are now mounted :) hope to get the tube mounted this weekend. Damn there is a lot of dinking around to get things done the older ya get.  ;D

All this aluminum material is from scrap blocks that have to be sawed and whittled down to suit. So it takes longer, but I cant see not finding a use for what someone else's throws out.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on November 14, 2014, 02:41:42 AM
It's certainly looking good Craig and a wonderful piece of engineering.

Tweakie.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: RICH on November 14, 2014, 07:14:35 AM
Quote
Thou I'm not sure how id test for what the limit might now be.
Scissor lifting tables are not linear in there ability to lift weight or position.
the graph shows some rough plotted points I'd created.


Graig,
The ability to lift with the table would be motor torque limited.
To get a close approx just put a weight on the table say 10# and see how much torque is required
( hopefully you have inch # torque wrench...) at 1 or two inch intervals. Do the same for say 20#, what ever #, or max wieght
you intend on putting on the table and graph.

Dosen;t matter how they rate the tables, I am sure you will not shear the pins or break the screw. Once the table cross legs
create a 45 deg angle uplift force will increase.


RICH
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: RICH on November 14, 2014, 07:41:46 AM
Graig,
None of the sizing software I have has a scissor jack configuration system.
But you can have a look at the following and have some quick and dirty data for your use.

http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/scissor-lift-bottom-loaded.htm

BTW, if you did a verical lift instead of the scissor you would of had linear movement and and constant loading.
Use counter weighted assist and could have used a wimpy motor.........

RICH
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 14, 2014, 07:54:11 AM
Thanks Tweak, Your laser project inspired me to have one of my own.

Rich, not worried about breaking the table but was wondering how the table was rated at 50 pounds as advertized.

And i guess I'm a little confused how I'd use a torque wrench  ???

Id thought a hanging scale at interval in positions along the travel. (so it would pull at itself)
As there has to be different values at different positions.
Getting it off bottom seems to be the low weight lifting limit and at the last is the max weight lifting limit.
So do they rate it mid stroke or at that 45 degree angle?

as a side note the pillow blocks were provided by Rkjohn (Thank You)
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,25244.msg178399.html#msg178399

the short pieces of 5/16 shafting is from the scrap bin of a local machine shop running swiss automatics, they are the ends from the bar feeders.

I purchased from Russ (Overloaded) the Aluminum extrusion material.

The Aluminum blocks are from the local scrap dealer that sells me whatever I find at current market rate.

had to purchase the 3/8" Drill rod and still waiting for a 12mm Drill rod that the USPS lost the first shipment (so the hole you see is in need of the additional guide rod)

Most all else in hardware was ebay purchases.

Opps, Missed the Y axis rails, they were from a palletizer table that was decommissioned and I had on hand for several years. I  just cut off what I needed for the framing material I had to work with.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: RICH on November 14, 2014, 08:41:39 AM
Quote
And i guess I'm a little confused how I'd use a torque wrench

You turn the screw with a torque wrench. I am lucky in that I have one that has dial indication which when observed will show
the torque that was required ie; just to start turning the screw, how much torque was applied to continue moving the axis.
I use it to adjust bearing preload ie; it indicates the difference in torque required to just move the axis , so if i adjust the preload
to remove / reduce backlash  I know how much of available motor torque was used since you want you want minimize it.

If you were to put say a 50 # weight on the table and see what setting the torque wrench click's  at you have the torque required
to lift that wieght which will include all the friction factors or binding in the table which is better than tryng to add assumptions
if calculated. Try the table when all the way down, at 45 deg angle ( probably half travel ) and just about at the full travel.

You could also use the torque wrench by reducing it's setting to see where the motor will not stall / skip.

All this can be done quickly,but, i will add that you should have confidence in the wrench settings.

SAFETY:
You wouldn't try to measure the torque of you car engine this way to see what force at the handle was required so common sense
is required if you have really high torque motors on your machine.

Hey, Hey I still remmeber our Hillman Minx car ;D with column mounted 4 speed reverse pattern  ::), that had a hand cranck which you could use until you could afford a new battery.
Crank handle could rip your arm off in a heart beat if not done correctly. ???

RICH
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 14, 2014, 09:44:53 AM
Thanks Rich for taking the time to explain. I did have to look up the Hillman Minx car, Cute  ;D

Seeing that screw mapping has not been implemented as of yet:
I did some spreadsheet work on creating a formula to calculate the logarithmic scale for the scissor lift

the red line is the calculated log line

Why I dont throw books away  ;) and the hutch I'd refinished was the storage source for the reference.

Craig  ::)
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 14, 2014, 11:47:37 AM
Just did a crude test using the hanging scale, doing the best I could without stressing to failure I got the following.
The pmdx board faulted out on the lower three heights but I never pushed it beyond the third test height as I did not want to create mechanical failure.
the inch value is the overall height of the lift table, used as a reference value.

@bottom 5-1/2" pmdx stopped at 25#
6-1/2" 55#
9-1/4" 110#
11-1/4" 140# I stopped
11-3/8" 180#
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: RICH on November 14, 2014, 08:29:34 PM
Quote
Why I dont throw books away


In my case I sometimes have a "figment of imagination" that i may go back into doing engineering work. :D
Heck, the ceiling hasn't caved in yet from the stored books in the attic...........sometimes one should forget and move on!
Women don't understand this, but, what would you expect form someone who came from Venus! ??? :D ;)

RICH
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 14, 2014, 09:31:58 PM
No wonder she lets you have the basement as your man cave,  ;D
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 28, 2014, 06:28:54 PM
Few more photos, also added roller bearings to the focus head for alignment. Sure works smooth now.
Title: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on November 29, 2014, 06:39:23 PM
Cabinet about ready to mount.
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on December 06, 2014, 03:14:57 PM
Waiting on wheels and lots of soldering.  :-\
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: dude1 on December 06, 2014, 03:43:02 PM
look nice and simple good work like the hight you have it at

looks like it could wobble a little bit but at a guess you wont know to you run it flat out
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on December 21, 2014, 08:45:29 AM
Wheels on and all put back together, so far so good.  8)

Setting up and Testing alignment with laser spot beam.
To help in registration a short stroke air cylinder comes up with mach4 output then goes back down before Co2 beam is turned on.
Y axis is set to 150inch per minute X is limited to 700.
Z table axis takes a little to get used to, as Z travel up is actually in the negative direction
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: dude1 on December 21, 2014, 02:20:54 PM
ill take two please LOL
looking good
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Overloaded on December 21, 2014, 07:05:16 PM
Hi Craig, that looks real nice.
"I love it when a plan comes together."

Were you able to get more of the normal connecting hardware for the extrusions ? If so, mind to send me the dealer info as I could use some myself .... since I let a bit too many of mine go.

Again ... VERY nice work.
Regards,
Russ
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on May 06, 2016, 11:41:03 AM
Thought id update this thread with an image of my latest test burn
3" diameter .171" deep in Hard Maple
40watt (K40 laser tube and power supply)
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on May 06, 2016, 11:53:54 AM
Nice work Craig.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on May 16, 2016, 09:37:31 AM
Thank You, nice to have a new toy, I'm having fun.

Few more varies burns, testing and finding limits
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on May 16, 2016, 09:40:11 AM
file size limited per post
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on May 16, 2016, 11:47:15 AM
Very nice indeed - the next step is real topographical maps ?

Tweakie.
Title: Re: The "Mach4" 3D Laser Build
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on May 16, 2016, 02:04:55 PM
very true finding or creating 3d models is the challenge.

Here is some foam and acrylic burns
the one foam burn is 55mm thru