Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Gandalf on March 29, 2007, 06:55:37 PM
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Having just joined the forum I have been reading through an assortment of postings on varied subjects and am starting to wonder if my notebook will be OK to run Mach2.
Basic spec from the system display is as follows.
Via Nehemiah 1.2 GHz processor
512 MB ram
intergrated graphics Via/S3G 32 MB
Win XP sp2
There is a normal assortment of domestic software installed including Norton anti this , that and the other security stuff.
Having been reading about problems with mostly Mach3 can anyone give me any guidance as to what sort of problems I might come across if I attempt to use it to control a small tabletop router.
The main reason for purchasing this machine some 6 months ago was because it has a parallel port built in plus being the end of range was at a suitable price to match my pocket so any help will be greatlfully received and read very carefully.
John
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Download and install Mach then restart (needs to be done the first time you install Mach) Then go to the Mach folder,( C:\Mach3 , if you installed in the default location) Then look for the DriverTest.exe and double click on it, it will start a test and if the line in the test looks smooth Mach should run fine on your computer .
Hood
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I am amazed at how quickly I get a response to a query so many thanks. I see you mention Mach3, does the same apply to Maxh2?
John
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Dont use Mach2, its good but Mach3 is better in every respect.
Hood
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Download and install Mach then restart (needs to be done the first time you install Mach) Then go to the Mach folder,( C:\Mach3 , if you installed in the default location) Then look for the DriverTest.exe and double click on it, it will start a test and if the line in the test looks smooth Mach should run fine on your computer .
Hood
The driver test may not always be a good indicator of your success. I have laptop that passes the driver test with flying colors. It runs Mach3 well for the most part but not 100%. It stalls out at times and I have never found the cause. Your best indicator is to run several test projects and see how it works for you.
(please do not reply with help on this, been there done that I give up)
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Look at the download site.
There is a file to optimise your pc/notebook for mach3.
I had problems with my notebook in combination with mach 3.
Search the forum for "motors chatter".
There is some information about my problems with notebook and mach3.
The major thing I changed is to set the computer to Standard PC NOT ACPI PC.
The problem with notebooks is that the voltageof the processor is controlled for optimized battery life.
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Thanks for all the suggestions but most seem to refer to Mach 3 whereas I am going to start with Mach 2 or if I could find it perhaps Mach 1 using the idea that earlier versions will not have so many functions that I will never need so why install them. I am not really interested in being able to produce complex items as mostly they will be simple bits fretted out of thin plywood or soft metal and consist of straight lines joined with the occassional curve so it may yet prove to be that any of the Mach series is far too comprehensive for my needs but as it has the good reputation it seems a good place to start from.
Anyway thanks for all the help and advice.
John
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John, I would go ahead and start with Mach3. Even if you don't need all it has to offer. I understand it is better all around.
Brett
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They should work on Mach2 as well but as Brett has said Mach3 does things better and you just need to use the bits you need and ignore the bits you dont. Also dont think Mach3 is more complicated to set up than Mach2, I would say it is actually the other way round if anything.
Hood
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Can anyone give me an idea as to how much space these programs take up or need to run as memory is a bit restricted to 512MB with no further room for expansion. I think my basic reasoning was that the earlier versions would use less resources and be more suitable for my needs.
John
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512 is more than enough, my mill has that and it doesnt have a problem, I have also run on 256 without a problem. Where you may see a difference between Mach2 and 3 is the graphics, if you have a card with little memory on it your refresh of screens etc will be slower, not really a problem but annoying if you are used to seeing it faster ;)
Hood
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I hate to even mention this on the forum because it is not recommended. Mine ran fine with just 256 of RAM. See screen shot.
Brett
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Not having actually run Mach 2 on a machine I would not be aware of any differences. So now I have been convinced that trying Mach 3 is the best way to go which version should I try?
John
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1.84 uses uses the older style screen graphics so would probably be easier on your graphics card but the latest revision would probably be the most sorted.
WHat graphics memory do you have and is it shared?
Hood
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BTW just download and install, it doesnt cost you anything to try it out. You can even install Mach2 as well, just cant run Mach2 and 3 at the same time. Have a look at the tutorial videos as well, they help a lot when you are new to Mach and although they are referring to Mach3 they will also give you pointers if you want to set up Mach2 as well.
Hood
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Shared graphics 16,32, 64 MB at present set to 32 MB. At thge moment I have tried Mach 2 on a desktop and which I have just played around with trying to get a toolpath traced out on the screen but no more than that so it is all a new world as far as I'm concerned, whether the aged brain cells will ever get it all sorted out remains to be seen.
John
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Shared is not the best but at 64 Meg you shouldnt have refresh issues even with the latest screensets but with 32 you might, however with the screensets in 1.84 I think they will work fine. But as I said refresh is only really a visual problem
Dont worry about the brain cells being aged, Bretts pretty competent with Mach and although he is not that old his brain cells are that of a redneck, both of them :D
Hood
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Aint that the truth Hood. I would have to agree. If a young stud red neck with two brain cells and an old (I mean older than dirt) Red Neck Dundonian with only one brain cell (which he keeps in his pocket most of the time) can get their machines running with Mach I'm sure you can. If not, I will belly up with all two of my brain cells and help all I can. Knowing Hood, if his one cell isn't busy with a monumental task like what to call me next, or admiring pocket lint, I'd bet he'll help too. :D
If for some reason we can't get you fixed up, I bet some of the sharp guys can. We will definatley have fun trying though. ;D
Brett
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:D
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Morning Brett,
If there are no 'Honey dos...........' today I might get down to our little log cabin at the bottom of our garden which is at rresent where I keep my toy router however if I am understanding the expression 'Belly up' correctly there are a few things to be done first. I need to brew some more real English Bitter Beer and polish up the prized Beer Engines as the brass is in need of a shine, once back in operation a tankard or two of real English Ale certainly obstructs concentration.
First then I need to install Mach 3 (locked down version?) and work out the pin numbers for the connections. At the moment there are 3 separate bipolar stepper cards with isolated inputs with a space for a 4th which at present is sitting on the bar having been used with a simple pulse generator for motor testing but all the connections are ready inside the box for it to be fitted in place. I may have to change the socket on the front as the Crentronics type came from an old PC and since it is from a board the connections are not as good as solder buckets and sometimes have been known to drop off so perhaps I should change to a DB 25 but that would mean buying a 25 way serial cable, and so it goes on.
Now I have to go and soak my freshly made cheese in brine and then I can get back to some serious pin comparing.
Thanks for all the help you are all giving me.
John.
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Hey John,
The locked down version would be better as far as the graphics being easier on your PC. I would try the latest version to start with. 2.00.061 at present. If it is more than your PC likes, you could back down to the locked down version.
Brett
BTW, I had to quite messing with beer, every time I tried it, it made me drunk. ;)
Brett
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Hi Brett,
Thanks for the advice so I'll try the latest version first but if it fails do I have to uninstall the previous version first?
My beer engines dispense 1/4 pint (Imp) per pull and a half pint at a time is enough for me but the home brew is about the same strength as a lot of table wines so perhaps that is why.
Thanks again.
John.
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Hey John,
I don't know for certain if it will write over the previously installed version or not but I always uninstall then install the one I want. Be sure to back up your XML file and screen set if it is not the standard. I keep a MachC folder on my desktop. In it you will find my XML files, screen sets, licenses files. I keep these up to date so if something did go wrong with a download, I'd have it all handy and backed up. Nothing has went wrong on a download yet, but just to be safe.
Brett
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I forgot, I also named my XML My Mach3 Mill. XML. I also renamed the shortcut icon on my desktop and pointed it to My Mach3 Mill. XML. Now when I down load the latest, my icon stays the same and in the same place. Since I have my own personal xml, (not a default one Mach gives) it doesn't try to overwrite it.
Brett
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I have always gone back and forth between versions when I have been trying to help out with problems other forum members may have with a certain version. I have never unistalled first, I always just install over the top of whatever version and so far have not had a problem.
Hood
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Hi Guys,
Just got the latest version installed and so far it looks OK. Screens change happily so it seems the 32 MB setting will be OK. I did run the motor test and saw what to me look like occasional big spikes ranging from about 25% to 75% of the little screen height. My control system is not as sensitive as most with motors single stepping at about 400/sec max for a resolution of 200 steps per mm so this evenings question is. Will these spikes cause me untold problems, or will it be OK to stay as it is?
At the moment though the really big problem is that I have just eaten the last of the jelly beans.
John
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LOL, John, first things first, get more jelly beans. I don't know if the spike you are seeing will effect you or not but I would prefer it not have it. Is this a dedicated PC? If so, have you ran the Optomisation File found in the downloads section?
Brett
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No such luxury as dedication,
Although not normally for general use there are occassions when it is used for domestic purposes so has a variety of domestic software installed. As I said my system is very slow but for me that is no problem and I can live with 100 mm travel per minute since the travel is only 220 by 150 by 75 mm (X,Y,Z that is) so perhaps spikes will not be too much of a problem but I'll have to wait and see after I have sorted out the pin connections which no doubt are different to what Mach 3 expects.
John
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Hi again guys,
I'm at that important time in life when I'm about to connect up for a test run. I do not expect miracles but want at first to simply try jogging around and up and down so now it is advice time.I printed out the Mach 3 tutorial so as to have pictures to compare and am now looking at the pin connections which comparing the tutorial with what I have at present are slightly different, at this stage it does not matter if motors run in reverse or otherwise since I only want to move things around.
OK I have X dir as pin 4 and step as pin 5. Y is 6 and 7 with Z as 8 and 9. These of course seem to be displaced from those shown in the tutorial so to save me changing the wiring can I simply alter the numbers in the motor outputs tab? I can of course add two more wires to the connector and move the other ends around to suit the new scheme. I have a separate board for each motor which just responds to step and direction signals so can play around with connections if needed but it would be far easier if I can change the pin numbers to suit what I have got at present.
John
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Hey John,
I think you should be OK with those pin numbers, just change the numbers in the motors tab. Also, look at the bottom of the out put signals tab, a little info. there.
Brett
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Evening or morning Brett,
Thinking on it really must be early afternoon for you. A bit late this evening for me to start unless I set up the pins before connecting to the rest of the bits. I had thought that I might be able to re-allocate the pins to suit what I have been using but thought it better to ask first, I do have a 4th board that I have been using with a pulse generator to test motors and the base plate inside the control box is already drilled to take it and all the other connectors are ready and waiting apart fromm connecting to the input socket on the front panel so could I (if I ever get that far) use pins 2&3 for a fourth axis?
Sorry to be so much bother.
John
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Yeap, I see no problem with that.
Brett
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Thanks for the reply Brett so now I'll leave you in peace.
But tomorrow is another day.
John
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LOL, I'll look for you then.
Brett
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It has not been a good day,
Nice and warm with the sun shining so it seemed a good ide to start trying to get to grips with Mach 3. It did seem a good idea to sit there in tthe sun with a few beers to hand until I tried to use the mouse. Sideways movement but no up and down so I thought to myself has the Mach coding upset the laptop. In the end the trouble was traced to the bright sunlight shining throughh th plastic of the mouse and upsetting the optical sensors so I put it in a shady spot.
Following the instructions in the Mach 3 tutorial I set up for mm and moved on to the pins and changed them to suit my existing connections, set the motors to my screw pitch and steps and following through the instructions tried the G0 X10 Y10 Z10, nothing happened! Fiddled with the motor settings still no joy so uninstalled the latest version and tried Mach 2.
Even worse this time, terrible trace from the motor test and nothing moved at all. Uninstall and put on the lockdown version, a better trace but not as good as the latest so I set up the motors and pins again and tried the reset which did not want to play. Eventually I found out how to disable the external E-stop and entered similar things as before. OK the numbers moved but nothing ese and I got a green line running off the toolpath screen at an angle and stopped who knows where. Could not alter feeds either in fact could not really do anything other than enter some coding as the instructions said.
I know that the computer has enough output voltage to switch the isolators since it sort of works on a different piece of software so would think that the signals from the Mach program would be similar so now I am sort of stuck and at a loss as to what to try next. I have used default settings apart from the pin numbers initially and later tried playing with motor things but all to no avail. To cap it all the leisure battery I use for a power supply has expired and needs to be interred at the nearest recycling centre. I use a 13.5 volt 110 amp hour battery as a power source and recharge as needed, plenty of power for my small machine that only draws about 6 amps maximum and of course is the smoothest source of power that can easily be found.
Basically I am need of help.
John
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Hey John,
Are you using a breakout board or are you wiring straight from the 25 conductor cable to the drives?
Brett
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No breakout board as yet,
I have another posting about some schematics for those, I saw and copied somewhere but cannot find them again as I need a better copy than those I saved. As for the wiring it actually comes from a centronics type connector since I have plenty of old printer leads to play with so using what is to hand but the pins are correct relative to the DB25 connector. I think I may have found the answer though while searching for something similar. It was a series of postings a couple of weeks ago coincerning a similar problem with a Taig Mill. It started me thinking that maybe I had done something silly which on investigation it seems I have. I was using pins 4,6,8 for step and 5,7,9 for direction but on looking more carefully at my own pin out listing I have sort of got step and direction the wrong way round with directions being 4,6,8 and step should be 5,7,9. I think I got confused as I have direction before step on my chart. I have just reset the pin numbers ready for another try in the morning.
Although I may have sorted that out I was still having trouble setting up motor speeds and steps so a pointer or two in the direction in the manual would be very helpful. At the moment though all I want to do is get the thing moving in the right directions and fancy stuff such as making actually machine something can wait until I am familiar with the software and writing something in G code.
John
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Hey John,
If you had the pins swaped around, that would do it. Set the accel and vel low to start with in motor tuning. You will have to play with those to get them optimal.
Brett
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Steps per unit in motor tuning will be (( 1mm/pitch)* Gearing*stepping of motors*stepping of drives) So if your leadscrews were 5mm pitch, you had 2:1 gearing, the steppers were normal 1.8 Degree (200 steps per rev) and the drives were half stepping you would have ((1/5)*2*200*2) = 160 steps per unit (mm)
Hood
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No such luxuries as ball screws,
Pension dictates el cheapo studding of M10 and M12 but with belt drives set to result in 1 mm per 200 steps. Likewise pension says only full steps, crude by most standards but fine for me and 0.005 mm per step is as accurate as I need go. Maybe if the God of Lottery numbers should smile upon me then things could change but I am content with what I have but would like to make it work.
John
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No improvement today,
I reset the output pins but cannot get anything to move. Using a different program the motors move so I know that if there are step and direction signals it will work. There is obviously something that I am missing setting in the config menus but I have no idea as to what I am not doing correctly. Tried slow speeds low, high and inbetween acceleration but nothing seems to be coming from the computer, as I said it works using a different controller so my lack of motor movements must be because I have not done something.
John
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Hey John,
Can you post your XML file here for us to see?
Brett
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Hi Brett,
Second attempt to send what I hope is the file you asked for. Had to add John to the front as I was informed the file had already been sent or was there. Cyber confusion strikes again as I do not remember trying to send it before.
John
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Hey John,
Try clicking your jog on/off button. See pic.
Brett
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I also meant to say, I noticed one of your motor tuning pages, I think the x, had a flat line. Need to give it a little more than that. See pic.
Brett
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Will do when it gets to daylight again,
One thirty five here at the moment so I think perhaps I'll go to bed. Been trying to convert a picture ended up at 738 MB, a bit on the big size I think. Try a more simple picture later.
John
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Had a day off today after the previous problems so still have not advanced much,
This evening I decided to download some tutorials and in one I was listening to the setting up of pins etc and it said about port numbers and port 0 not existing and had to be changed to port 1. Firing up the laptop I went straight to the config files and sure enough port 0 was ticked. I have now changed the three motor sets to port 1 ready for a new start as soon as I sort out an alternative power supply. I had assumed that the port number had defaulted to match the parallel port of LPT1 but obviously I had thought wrongly so now I am hoping that it might possibly start to work. If I can just get 3 motors moving I can then tune them but at present they only twitch when switching on the computer and that is as far as I get.
Hoping for some results tomorrow.
John