Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: Jim Pettit on May 20, 2014, 12:17:21 PM
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Two Issues to Clarify
Have Galil board: Galil has a nice simple program language. How to convert G code to Galil language. Surely this has been done and completely checked out? Can we have a single standard unified program for this--- checked for quality. Any comments.
Second Issue: Where are the motion control board guys on the critical path to completion of whatever they are working on?
Have a lathe Leblond 17x80 want to try Mach 4 now. Nearly ready with mechanicals servo cabinet etc,
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Two Issues to Clarify
Have Galil board: Galil has a nice simple program language. How to convert G code to Galil language. Surely this has been done and completely checked out? Can we have a single standard unified program for this--- checked for quality. Any comments.
Second Issue: Where are the motion control board guys on the critical path to completion of whatever they are working on?
Have a lathe Leblond 17x80 want to try Mach 4 now. Nearly ready with mechanicals servo cabinet etc,
Galil can't do constant velocity with it's simple programming language. Therefore, we do the trajectory planning and feed it to the Galil via a motion plugin. This is just one of the reasons that G code doesn't "convert" well to the Galil command set. BobCad did a post processor for their CAM software back around v19 to v21. It worked for 2D stuff only. But that was about as it got and it certainly wasn't a G code converter because it bypassed the G code completely.
I have a Galil plugin for Mach 4 that moves my machine quite nicely. But it is not ready for prime time. Lots of testing still to do. Other motion controllers such as the parallel port, Ethernet Smooth Stepper, Vital Systems HiCON and DSP-MC are coming along as well.
Steve
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Smurph: Thanks much for the education on motion control boards. "progress is coming along nicely", does this means months away or years?
Interested in getting a machine running G code during the summer?
Jim
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I have a Galil plugin for Mach 4 that moves my machine quite nicely. But it is not ready for prime time. Lots of testing still to do.
Steve
Steve,
At risk of over asking the question... What is your best estimate on the Galil plugin, months/years? ( Fully conversant with the 95/5 rule which states that the first 95% of the project will take 95% of the time budget and the last 5% will probably take the other 95% of the time ;-)
We have a bunch of retrofits on 2.5D profiling units that we would like to use this system for. Also appreciate the need to have it "ready when it is actually ready" for industrial use so it's not an ask for a binding estimate just an estimate which may be subject to enormous change due to unforseen circumstances.
Don
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I feel like the Galil plugin will be done about a month after Mach4 is released. Now, when is that? I don't know at the moment because all of these requests are going to take time to implement. And we'll need documentation too. The problem is that I can't work on both Mach and Galil plugin at the same time. I've tried it! But it turns out that I actually need two hands on one keyboard. :) So Mach first, Galil second.
The movement with the Galil is solid. I even have it probing and homing. But it needs MPG support and lots of work on the configuration dialog. Meaning as of right now, I'm putting a lot of text parameters in a file by hand. It needs polishing. I'd call it 98% done. If I had a solid week to work on it AND Mach didn't change in the interim, I could stick a fork in it. But I run Ethernet controllers. I don't have the means to test any PCI controllers, so that may take more time. And ISA and USB Galil support has been dropped, so don't expect those to ever work with Mach 4.
The Galil is actually the oldest Mach 4 motion plugin. (Hmm... I wonder how that happened?) :) It is also, by that virtue, the one that has had to be changed the most to hit a constantly moving target.
So, again, it really depends on how long it takes to get Mach released. And I really can't nail that down at all right now. :( Sorry.
My machine is a Matsuura MC500 with a 16 pod tool changer. The tool changer is run completely from the Galil. When the Galil plugin is released, it will be industrial strength at least on the Ethernet controllers that run analog servo driven 3 axis mills. I can't speak to gantry systems, as I don't have one.
I have Mach 3 running my machine to perfection. So don't discount that option either. It is a MUCH better controller than the original YASNAC ever thought about being. We have customers that are shipping new production machines to industrial environments with the Mach 3/Galil combo. It rocks.
Steve
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Thanks for the detailed reply Steve, that answers our questions well. We are looking at using the ethernet Galil units to replace the existing controllers and if the process drags due to bug swatting we will use the Mach3 software in the interim.
Cheers
Don
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What functions does the Galil plugin preform? Software translation? Math Cal? Formating?
In other words what is the problem to be solved on Galil?
jim
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The Galil plugin takes trajectory data from Mach and converts it into a format that the Galil can use. Some older controllers use Linear Interpolation. The newer controllers use Contour mode. The newest controllers will use PVT mode.
There are no problems to be solved. The concepts for the plugin are not new and they are well understood. We run Galil with Mach 3 with great success. It is just a matter of testing all code paths in the Mach 4 plugin. Like making sure that when the user hits Stop that it actually stops, etc... You would not believe how many paths you have to account for just because we never know what the user will do.
Steve
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I have just got a Galil 2143 to upgrade an old Anilam system with servos. I expect to be buying Mach 3 and/or 4 to drive this.
As I understand it, Mach 3 was designed to do the controlling within Windows and output to the parallel port with signals for steppers. The Galil plugin then has to convert that into a suitable form for the Galil card and output the commands on the ethernet output.
My question is; Will Mach 4 natively create output more inline with the needs of external motion controllers?
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The output from Mach to external controllers is the same be it Mach 3 or Mach 4. It is not pulse and direction. It is position over time, or just PT for short. Mach 4 will add velocity to that output as well (PVT). But plain old PT matches up well with Galil's Linear Interpolation mode and it is perfect for Contour mode. The newer Galils have PVT mode as well.
The parallel port is operating the same way. It gets the PT values from Mach and then makes the signals to the pins to provide pulse and direction. But the internal method of motion planning is really the same.
Steve
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Steve,
Many thanks. So from your message I get the idea that when using external motion controller cards like the Galil, there will be little point in waiting to get Mach 4. Mach 3 will be just as good for that setup?
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Mach 3 runs fine for me. Once I got it all setup and quit messing with it, the combo is very stable. Mach 4 has smoother motion and eventually will have more features. For instance, Mach 4 has a version that has Fanuc Custom Macro B where Mach 3 will never have that. But if you want a machine running now or yesterday, then Mach 3 is what I would use. Simply because the Galil plugin for Mach 4 is still in development.
Steve
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Steve,
Talking of plugins.
I have the latest Galil Smart Terminal software loaded and I see that there is a different Galil plugin for that. However when I start Mach 3 with the Galil-ST plugin loaded I get an error message. I do not get that with the non-ST plugin. I can run Mach 3 with that plugin. Can you confirm that the combination of the Galil ST software and the standard plugin will not jump up and bite me some day in the future. Else is there a way of using the ST plugin.
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If you are running an Ethernet controller, then no Galil software is required and you use the regular Galil plugin (not Galil-st). Smart Term can be installed and it will co-exists fine. Only use Galil-st plugin if you are running an older bus based controller.
Steve
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Steve,
Many thanks for your help.
Yes I am using an ethernet connection and everything seems fine with the standard plugin.
I am new to both the Galil controllers and Mach 3 so there is a lot to learn, but I am at least able to made chips now. Although I am sure that there are many settings yet to be optimized. I was a bit spoiled with my old Anilam system, it came totally setup and ready to go.
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Hi Steve.
Is there any chance that mach4 could output position only and the galil use it's own LI (linear interpolation) mode? I have a program that does that, its for a big 3D foam machining center... and it runs so beautiful, the vector accel setting makes for a beautiful dance of the axises as it rounds off the "accel corners".
regs, Francisco
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Francisco,
That is how the plugin works right now! If you enable debug file logging, you will see LOTS of LI commands. It will be no different for Mach 4.
Steve
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Hello Steve,
wondering how I could get the plugin for m4 for testing. I have heard some people are already using it.
regards,
Francisco
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Francisco,
That is how the plugin works right now! If you enable debug file logging, you will see LOTS of LI commands. It will be no different for Mach 4.
Steve
But on other posts/threads you say that the galil gets sent the motion commands that were already profiled by mach. So I am imagining that the galil receives not only position but also time. Would that be correct?
regards,
F
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Hello everyone,
Any news on the galil plugin for mach4?
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I'm also very interested in the Galil pluggin for Mach4. I've been patiently waiting and now I have a lathe and a mill that I need to retrofit.
I do hope it is available soon.
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Are there any updates on this plugin?
Dave
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We are working on it with Galil. Maybe a beta by the end of the year. But nothing set in stone as yet.
Steve
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Steve, thank you for the update. That is encouraging news. I understand that nothing is in stone and yet just letting you know that there are people interested in having this complete.
Jay
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Steve,
Any update available for the Galil plug-in?
Regards,
Jeff
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Has the Galil plugin been abandoned? It would be nice to update my machine to mach4.
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We are in the final stages of releasing it. Be aware that it will be a licensed product for Mach 4, meaning there will be a cost to it. As to what the cost will be, I don't know at this point.
The "supported" controllers will be the 40x0 and 41x3 controllers. However, the older 21x3 and 21x0 controllers may work but no testing has been done at this point. Rigid tapping and lathe threading are not implemented yet. ISA cards will not be supported at all.
Galil is working on a special Mach 4 firmware that will enable advanced features such as movement coordinated outputs, single input probe latches, backlash compensation, and screw mapping. This firmware will be available to users that purchase a 41x3 or 40x0 from Galil. This firmware will not be available for the older controllers.
Steve
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Thanks for the update.
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Ok, I finally found this post to reply to it. The Mach 4 Galil plugin has been release and it is up on the website.
The new "special" Galil firmware is NOT released yet. You must use the latest GA firmware releases, 1.2d or higher for the 41x3 controllers and 1.2e or higher for the 40x0 controllers.
It is probably not a good idea to try this on an older Optima or Econ controller. Why? I have not had time to even test with them. :( This means they are not officially supported. If you buy the Galil plugin and try it with the older controllers and it does not work for you, expect little or no response/help/support. Galil had to fix their firmware for the 41x3 and 40x0 controllers to allow for faster communication. (See above firmware versions.) I have no idea if they are merging that fix into the older controller's firmware updates or even if they need it as it could possibly only needed for their new generation of controllers. I just don't know. I also don't know, at this point, when or if I will get a chance to look at any of the older controllers to check them out.
The reports are sweet though for the 41x3 and 40x0 controllers. :)
Steve