Machsupport Forum

Third party software and hardware support forums. => SmoothStepper USB => Topic started by: Rimmel on May 20, 2014, 12:42:59 PM

Title: ESS starting spindle kills my USB mouse and keyboard
Post by: Rimmel on May 20, 2014, 12:42:59 PM
Right a bit of background - got a perfectly well working lathe with a Uniport V3 and v3 spindle card. I have been using it with a UC100 and all is well except a bit of back lash on the x axis. The Mach3 backlash does not seem to work once I have homed the machine  :( I also had the machine running directly from the parallel port with no problems - just a lower speed.

So looking at it all i had to do was swap over the UC100 and connect up the ESS (obviously adding the ethernet and a 5v supply) -

All went well and the z axis is - great, x axis - great, suds pump - great, then spindle - NOTHING. so went into the config and set the spindle t0 step/dir mode in 5 us mode (same as mach3). Then tried the spindle again - YAY it works, however when the spindle starts the mouse and keyboard lock up. This sort of makes using it in my mach 3 a bit useless. I have to hit an estop then wait 15 - 30 seconds to get the mouse and keyboard back.

WinXP sp3 dual core 2gig ram. Latest version of mach3 from the main site and version ESS_v10h2d1a of the ess plugin.

I have tried all sorts of settings.

Help please...........  :-*


PS just double checked and it physically knocks out the USB - e.g the lights go out on the mouse and keyboard.
Title: Re: ESS starting spindle kills my USB mouse and keyboard
Post by: Jeff_Birt on May 20, 2014, 04:18:00 PM
VFD are excellent generators of electrical noise. If you don't take care in wiring your machine, using the proper filters, etc. you will will have nothing but problems with any brand of motion cotrol or other circuit boards. A LOT has been written on this subject both here and on the warp9TD forum. Do a bit of searching in both places for 'VFD" and 'noise' and you will find out a LOT of information. If you have specific questions about how to implement one of these ideas on your mahcine than please ask.
Title: Re: ESS starting spindle kills my USB mouse and keyboard
Post by: Rimmel on May 21, 2014, 06:24:24 AM
Sort of scratching my head here - I've thought I'd already elminated any VFD noise. The machine is a Denford Easiturn with the original single/3 phase setup. All connections are grounded properly.

When using the standard printer port (LPTP) the machine purrs along, then adding a USB interfaced UC100 controller the machine purrs along. All I did was remove the usb interfacing and add the ESS (which isn't USB) and is powered by the same 5v 2amp power supply that supplies the BOB. Everything else is in exactly the same place. Yet now the USB mouse and keyboard die on the machine. If it was an interference problem I would have expected it to be worse using the USB interface.

The only thing I can think of is making sure the ethernet cable is shielded, but if it wasn't would that kill the PC's USB?

Title: Re: ESS starting spindle kills my USB mouse and keyboard
Post by: Jeff_Birt on May 21, 2014, 10:32:38 AM
You have to seperate the source of the problem from the symptom sometimes. When you have a problem with high frequency electrical noise the symptoms you experiance can vary greatly, sometimes just repositioning one cable a bit will cause a new symptom to appear. I've seen changes in humidity cause plasma cutting systems / TIG welding systems to behave diffrently, i.e. high humidty and there are probelm low humidity and things are fine. The high humidity was not the cause of the problem it just changed the observed symtptom of a high voltage insulator breaking down.

With VFDs I like to mount them in a seperate metal box to contain any radiated emissions (RFI), I'll mount the AC line filter and a power contorl rleay in the same box. If you add a small fan to help pull air through the VFD you can use a smaller box than you could otherwise get away with. Then I'll use proper VFD cable from the VFD to the spindle motor. There are also 'line reactors' that can go inline between the spindle motor and VFD for extrmeme cases but for most jobs they are not required. Most VFDs have an isolated digital control section (on/off, direction inputs) and Analog control section (input to control speed), it's important to make sure you don't confuse the DC Common for these two sections. I also like to use relays in my control box to trigger the VFD inputs rahter than have a direct electrical connection, if you don't have isoalted outputs from your control box this is doubly important. Also, it is better to power teh VFD from a seperate source (circuit breaker) this helps prevent electrical noise from feeding back down the mains into your PC/control.

What sort of connections do you have between your PC and control box/machine? I have found a lot of folks try to steal 5V from a USB port for something in their control box and this just opens up a very easy route for electrical nosie to travel between the two. The Etherent connection is isolated at both ends of the cable by small transformers thus there is no direct electrical connection. This effectively isolates your PC from the control box unless you have some other sort of cable runnign between them. Your contorl box and PC should share a common earth ground however.
Title: Re: ESS starting spindle kills my USB mouse and keyboard
Post by: Rimmel on May 21, 2014, 11:07:21 AM
Most of the criteria that you recommend are met including the relays for the VFD inputs and all isolated outputs from the control box.

The only thing I don't really have is AC line filters. I have emailed you asking about the cost of a couple shipped to the UK.