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Third party software and hardware support forums. => Galil => Topic started by: Wilde Racing on February 22, 2014, 07:46:48 PM

Title: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on February 22, 2014, 07:46:48 PM
I have a few post on here about my old Kondia K-76 CNC and Dynapath System 10. I recently won an online auction for a full Camsoft retrofit. Including touch screen, Galil CS18420 board and ICM 2900, and Camsoft professional. The Camsoft software is SUPER clunky compared to the Mach3 stuff. So I want run mach3 on the camsoft hardware I have mach3 and the galil plugin installed. I have no idea how to start wiring the ICM 2900 or how to select the active pins within mach3. Anyone want to help a super newbie????? Pretty Please! :)
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 01, 2014, 09:53:15 PM
No-one knows? I have figured out the encoders and I'm pretty confident in the other wiring, but I have no idea how to get the connecters and pins within mach3
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 01, 2014, 10:59:25 PM
Did you get the machine running with Camsoft?
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 02, 2014, 10:12:38 AM
No, camsoft seams way too clunky. Maybe I am expecting too much.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 02, 2014, 05:39:12 PM
But did you actually get the machine to move with camsoft?
Are you running Servos or steppers?

I had a little experience with Camsoft. I finally got it to run pretty well with steppers on a bridgeport series rigid ram.
I had to do alot of tweaking within Galil Terminal.
The reason I did not stick with it was Camsoft wanted Thousands of dollars per year for licensing and there support people were very rude.   

I switched to a software called WINGCNC. Ran it for about 10 years.
After 3 years of my equipment being in storage I am now making the move to Mach3.
I do not have to worry about lost production time this time around.

I am finding it to be quite a challenge to  figure out using old Galil products and Mach3.
But it is not the problem of Mach for the most part. It is getting the old Galil stuff to work on newer OS.

I have on ISA bus machine and I can not get the 1740 card to register properly in XP PRO to save my A$$
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on March 04, 2014, 02:48:41 AM
Yes... stepper or servo?

The pins pretty much are how you map the Galil inputs and outputs.  The pin map is in the Galil Plugin PDF.  Basically you find the input or output you want and look up in the PDF and you assign that pin number yo the Mach input or output signal you want to map it to in "Ports and Pins". 

The encoders are internally mapped, so don't do anything on the "Encoders" tab of the Mach config.  Just make sure the encoders are wired up to the ICM.  The AMPENA output on the ICM is also internally mapped.  It is actually toggled high with the Galil command "SH" and low with "MO"  The plugin issues these commands to the Galil appropriately. 

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 04, 2014, 09:58:55 AM
Thank you for the information!!

I have brushed servos and I have a good handle on the servos and encoders. I'm not sure on the other signals what type or how to communicate with the galil board.  Will I need to have a external power supply for the icm? I could not imagine the computer able to supply that much amperage.

Thanks again!!
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on March 04, 2014, 01:10:55 PM
The ICM can use the logic level voltages that are present on the ICM (+5 and +12).  There is LSCOM and INCOM which are the common rails of the limit switch inputs and the general purpose inputs.  I usually tie +24 volts from an external supply to these common terminals.  I do NOT recommend using the logic level voltages on mechanical switched circuits.  So 24v is pretty much mandatory.  This sets the circuit up for the switches to ground the circuit.  Each of the wires tied to an input or limit is then tied to one side of the switch and the other end of the switch is tied to ground.  Either normally open or normally closed switches can be used.  However, for safety reasons, I would recommend that the limit switches be the normally closed type.

The output wiring depends on if the ICM is opto-isolated or not.  If it is, it will have a -OPTO label on it.  You would then supply OUTPWR and OUTGND.  Read the Galil documentations for examples of wiring the output circuits.  i usually use the outputs to drive solid state relays regardless of if the ICM is -OPTO or not.  Then you can use the logic level voltages from the ICM to control the output SSRs and let the SSRs switch what ever voltages you need.

The general inputs and outputs (8 each on your 1842 board) are not used for anything special on the Galil.  They are merely there for machine I/O duty.  There is one exception, however, and that is the case of probing.  Inputs 1-4 also serve as the high speed position latch triggers.  So if you want to use a probe, do not use these inputs for other purposes.  The triggers are PER Galil axis.  Input 1 is for axis A, input 2 is for axis B, etc...  So if you are using Galil axes A, B, and C to drive Mach axes X, Y, and Z, then you will want to reserve inputs 1, 2, and 3 for your probe inputs.  Each input should be wired up to the probe so that a probe strike activates all of the inputs at the sane time. 

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 06, 2014, 09:28:06 PM
The ICM can use the logic level voltages that are present on the ICM (+5 and +12).  There is LSCOM and INCOM which are the common rails of the limit switch inputs and the general purpose inputs.  I usually tie +24 volts from an external supply to these common terminals.  I do NOT recommend using the logic level voltages on mechanical switched circuits.  So 24v is pretty much mandatory.  This sets the circuit up for the switches to ground the circuit.  Each of the wires tied to an input or limit is then tied to one side of the switch and the other end of the switch is tied to ground.  Either normally open or normally closed switches can be used.  However, for safety reasons, I would recommend that the limit switches be the normally closed type.

The output wiring depends on if the ICM is opto-isolated or not.  If it is, it will have a -OPTO label on it.  You would then supply OUTPWR and OUTGND.  Read the Galil documentations for examples of wiring the output circuits.  i usually use the outputs to drive solid state relays regardless of if the ICM is -OPTO or not.  Then you can use the logic level voltages from the ICM to control the output SSRs and let the SSRs switch what ever voltages you need.

The general inputs and outputs (8 each on your 1842 board) are not used for anything special on the Galil.  They are merely there for machine I/O duty.  There is one exception, however, and that is the case of probing.  Inputs 1-4 also serve as the high speed position latch triggers.  So if you want to use a probe, do not use these inputs for other purposes.  The triggers are PER Galil axis.  Input 1 is for axis A, input 2 is for axis B, etc...  So if you are using Galil axes A, B, and C to drive Mach axes X, Y, and Z, then you will want to reserve inputs 1, 2, and 3 for your probe inputs.  Each input should be wired up to the probe so that a probe strike activates all of the inputs at the sane time. 

Steve


Thank you Steve. the ICM 2900 has no -OPTO labels So I guess I need to set up some sort of relay rack for the higher amp stuff. Now if I only knew what that stuff was.... lol

What type of power supply should I be looking for? one of the wires goes to a box that says 24v dc so I know I will need that... Will a computer power supply work?

Thanks for all the help!!!
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 07, 2014, 07:57:41 PM
Just to let you know the white label that has OPTO on it is very small it is just next to where ICM-2900 is printed on the case.
Also in doubt you can open the ICM and check to see if the IC Chips are in place in the OPTO slots.

Check the attached PDF
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 08, 2014, 11:09:53 AM
My ICM 2900 does not have all those connection in your first download.  Mine looks just like the second link.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 08, 2014, 01:52:27 PM
The first download is what you see if you take the cover off of the ICM 2900 and look at the pc board inside.

And where the U1 and U2 locations are have chips if it is OPTO Steve/Smurph can correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think I am.

I have only seen about 20 ICM-2900 in real life and they have all been OPTO. And a few had the little white tag worn off.
But I am sure there must be a bunch of non OPTO out there!
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 08, 2014, 02:23:46 PM
Well that's good news right?? What type of power supply do I need?
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 08, 2014, 02:41:22 PM
That I am not sure. I have very little experience on the I/O section of the Galil

Smurph regarding the LSCOMM connection.
I tried to find a schematic before asking these questions

Since I need 5v input to use my Optical limits could I use a External 5V 1amp ( Amperage just for example) power supply and connect the negative side to the LSCOMM connection and have The + coming from the Limits?

Also does the LSCOMM rail include the home switches? I would assume yes.

Thanks,
Joe
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on March 10, 2014, 02:51:51 PM
Yes, LSCOMM is limits and homes.

You can probably use the 5v outputs on the ICM to power the optical switches.  No external supply needed if they don't draw much current.

You can ground LSCOMM and provide the pos signal from the switches.  However, all inputs and homes must operate in the same manner.  You can't have limits one way and home another. 

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on March 10, 2014, 02:54:03 PM
Well that's good news right?? What type of power supply do I need?

Any power supply that can provide the needed current draw.  24v is max. voltage.  I would suggest a 24v supply if using mechanical switches.  Less noise issues.  Don't skimp on the switches.  Good quality switches will save you from sever headaches in the future.  :)

http://www.galilmc.com/support/appnotes/optima/note1427.pdf (http://www.galilmc.com/support/appnotes/optima/note1427.pdf)  Shows how to wire the opto outputs.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 10, 2014, 10:46:23 PM
Yes, LSCOMM is limits and homes.

You can probably use the 5v outputs on the ICM to power the optical switches.  No external supply needed if they don't draw much current.

You can ground LSCOMM and provide the pos signal from the switches.  However, all inputs and homes must operate in the same manner.  You can't have limits one way and home another. 

Steve

Thanks, Steve

Ok nowI think I am starting to understand this.

So if I use onboard ICM 2900 5V to power the Optical limits I would run a wire from one of the GND terminals on ICM to LSCOMM Then run ICM 5V+ to the limits NC and when the limit trips it will disable thru Mach?

Or does it disable the enable for that axis on the ICM?

And looking at the Opto wiring diagrams in the links you provided. Are the resistors shown a circuit within the ICM or is that something we need to add.
I wish there was some good Documentation for the functionality of the ICM 2900.

Oh by the way  Wilde Racing I hope you do not think I am high jacking your thread. I figure the best place to ask these question is here, because you need the same answers.

Joe
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 11, 2014, 11:14:57 AM
Is mechanical switches preferred over solid state? The mill has a few amf kup14d15 relays they seam really big for the card to operate. I wonder if I need a relay to run my relay.. Lol
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on March 11, 2014, 03:50:22 PM
Joe,

The resistors are internal to the ICM.

Wilde Racing,

Either type of switch is fine.  Just if you go mechanical, then you want a good one.  Not some cheap crap that bounces.

As to the relay to run a relay, I do that a lot.  I used solid state relays to drive the coils of mechanical relays.  It may be overkill but if you are not sure how much current the coils require, then it is a safe way to handle it.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on March 11, 2014, 08:21:38 PM
Thanks Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 31, 2014, 09:09:40 AM
I've done some searching and still have not found what ports and pins I use for the servos and encoders. I've read I don't define the locations?? Is that true?
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on March 31, 2014, 12:24:59 PM
You don't use ports and pins for the servos or encoders on the Galil.  They are handled in the Galil plugin.  This is because their function is known.  Meaning there is a specific place to wire them up on the Galil ICM and we can make a direct correlation as to what they do.  However, we don't know what input or output you want to use for what.  So the ports and pins tab is a way of letting you, the user, map that functionality the way you wish. 

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 02, 2014, 03:02:10 AM
Thank you Steve.  How would I go about wiring the spindle control? It is looking for a 0-10volt signal.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 02, 2014, 03:27:28 AM
In the plugin config dialog, you map S to the desired Galil axis.  Then select "Single Ended 0-10" check box. You would then wire your VFD 0-10v input to the MOCMDx (where x is the axis you chose) terminal and then tie your VFD ground to any GND terminal on the Galil ICM.  You can also wire the VFD on/off signal to the AMPENAx circuit of the Galil ICM.  You will also need to map and wire output to control the direction of the VFD.

It is important that the PID values (KP, KI, and KD) for the Galil spindle axis be set to 0 and burned to the controller if you are not running with encoder feedback.  When in this mode, the plugin controls the speed of the motor with the OF command.  You will see these commands being sent down in the debug log file if you turn on logging.

Do not check the "Spindle uses encoder" check box unless your VFD can accept a +-10v command like a servo drive does.  Even if your VFD provides encoder feedback.

That is it, in a nut shell.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on April 02, 2014, 01:59:31 PM
Thanks for that Steve. That is the next thing I have to tackle.

Someday I think I am going to read thru all of the threads and take notes and make a manual/tech sheet with all of these types of questions.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 02, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
I think that would be very helpful. Maybe have examples of simple I/O settings. That's next for me, how to make an output run a relay.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 12:03:31 AM
*****SNIP*****
It is important that the PID values (KP, KI, and KD) for the Galil spindle axis be set to 0 and burned to the controller if you are not running with encoder feedback.  When in this mode, the plugin controls the speed of the motor with the OF command.  You will see these commands being sent down in the debug log file if you turn on logging.*******

I don't really understand any of this. What is KP, KI, and KD? and OF command???

Sorry for my ignorance....
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 01:16:43 AM
Ok, so I got the spindle working kinda... I get 0-10v out of my 4th axis (MOCMDW) the problem is the voltage is negative. Can I just hook the in reverse? Also how do I link buttons to commands in mach3? For instance: I have a green and yellow button, I'd like the to run cycle start and feed hold. How would I go about doing that?
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 03, 2014, 01:32:02 AM
Proportional (P), Integral (I), Derivative (D).  These are the main terms that describe how the servo loop operates.  They have everything to do with how a servo system operates.  Galil lets you "tune" these values with KP, KI, and KD commands.  OF is the Galil voltage offset command.  OF0 will be 0 volts offset while OF9 will be 9 volts offset.  And anything in between.  This is command that we use on the Galil to basically use the axis as an analog output.  But...  KP, KI, and KD need to be set to 0, otherwise they may change the base voltage of the output!  

The Galil is a very complex and flexible motion controller.  A good bit of knowledge about Galil controllers is pretty much a prerequisite to using one with Mach effectively.  We cannot possibly put all of that into the plugin docs.  If you know how to operate a Galil outside of the Mach environment, then setting up the plugin via the plugin docs is pretty straight forward.  However, if you don't have a good handle on the Galils, it can be challenging (to say the least).

The good news is that the Galil documentation is pretty good.  And they have a nice forum on their website with lots of answers.  Also, the application notes are an invaluable resource when it comes to connecting the Galils and wiring up ICMs.  

There are 3 things that anyone needs to know a good deal about when using the Mach/Galil combination:

1.  Servo theory and operation.  This means getting to know your servo/drive combination pretty well too, as they are all a little bit different.
2.  General Galil concepts and operation.  This includes wiring the ICMs up to the servo drive, inputting the servo tuning parameters,and BN (burning) them to the Galil's NVRAM.  Making the servos move with only the Galil terminal is a good first step.  
3.  Mach.  Mach started off life as a system that drove stepper drives from the parallel port.  This paradigm is most noticeable in the "Ports and Pins" configuration dialog.  Later on, the concept of external motion controllers came to life.  But these external motion controllers pretty much don't resemble a parallel port at all.  So there has always been this sort of square peg/round hole type thing going on.  So the way we implement an external controller is by providing "virtual ports and pins" via the plugin.  That is why we have a pin map in the Galil plugin documentation.  So you just installed Mach and have fired it up, right?  Is all of this immediately apparent?  Unfortunately, No.  

None of this comes fast and easy.  I can't tell you how many nights, days, and weekends I have spent pouring over the Mach and Galil docs.  And I'm still learning every day!

But it is all worth it.  The Mach/Galil combination is poetry in motion.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 03, 2014, 01:46:24 AM
Ok, so I got the spindle working kinda... I get 0-10v out of my 4th axis (MOCMDW) the problem is the voltage is negative. Can I just hook the in reverse?

???  Not sure why you are seeing this.  What happens if you go to the Galil terminal and enter the command "OFD=5" ?

Again, make sure that KP, KI, and KD are set to 0.  Issue "KPD=0;KID=0;KDD=0" in the Galil terminal.  Then try the OFD=5 command again. 

Turn on logging in the Galil plugin config.  There is a check box to enables it.  Then re-start Mach and then directly close it.  It will produce a GalilDebug.txt file in the plugins directory.  At the top of this file, there will be a listing of the current Galil settings.  This might prove useful to see if there are any commands burned into the controller's NVRAM that could cause this.

Also how do I link buttons to commands in mach3? For instance: I have a green and yellow button, I'd like the to run cycle start and feed hold. How would I go about doing that?

You would typically wire them to inputs on your Galil and then map that input in "ports and pins"  Then you may need to write a Mach 3 Brian that looks at that input and operates an OEM button code.  There is a good video tutorial on Brains in the Mach documentation web links.  Once the mapping is done in ports and pins, it is all pretty much standard Mach from there on out for this task.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 01:48:01 AM
I defiantly need help with number 2 and 3... Where is the best source for this information? Thank you again Steve.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 02:00:28 AM

Turn on logging in the Galil plugin config.  There is a check box to enables it.  Then re-start Mach and then directly close it.  It will produce a GalilDebug.txt file in the plugins directory.  At the top of this file, there will be a listing of the current Galil settings.  This might prove useful to see if there are any commands burned into the controller's NVRAM that could cause this.

Steve

Here are the results...

Galil Plugin v4.6.0.0 (DMCLib)
QZ                                                           Slots=000  Response=" 4, 24, 16, 28:"
DMC1842 Rev 1.0r

QZ                                                           Slots=000  Response=" 4, 24, 16, 28:"
-- Begin Controller Settings --
AC = 3072, 3072, 3072, 256000
AF = 0, 0, 0, 0
BB = 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
BI = 0, 0, 0, 0
BM = 2000.00, 2000.00, 2000.00, 2000.00
BO = 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000
CE = 0, 0, 0, 0
DC = 3072, 3072, 3072, 256000
DV = 0, 0, 0, 0
ER = 16384, 16384, 16384, 16384
FA = 0.00, 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
FV = 0, 0, 0, 0
GM = 0, 0, 0, 0
GR = 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000
OE = 0, 0, 0, 0
IL = 9.9982, 9.9982, 9.9982, 9.9982
IT = 1.0000, 1.0000, 1.0000, 1.0000
KD = 64.00, 64.00, 64.00, 0.00
KI = 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
KP = 6.00, 6.00, 6.00, 0.00
KS = 1.313, 1.313, 1.313, 1.313
LZ = 1
MT = 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0
OF = 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000
OP = 3, 0 0 0:
PF = 10.0
PL = 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000, 0.0000
SP = 3000000, 3000000, 3000000, 25000
TL = 9.9982, 9.9982, 9.9982, 9.9982
VA = 256000, 256000
VD = 256000, 256000
VF = 10.4
VS = 25000, 25000
VT = 1.0000, 1.0000
-- End Controller Settings --

-- Begin Axis Mapping --

 Mach Axes: XYZABCS
Galil Axes: ABC---D

-- End Axis Mapping --

QZ                                                           Slots=000  Response=" 4, 24, 16, 28:"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
MT 1.0,1.0,1.0,1.0                                           Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true Set motor types.>
SP 3000000,3000000,3000000                                   Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
FL 2147483647,2147483647,2147483647                          Slots=000  Response=":"  <DisableSoftLimits() gState.nAixs = 4>
BL -2147483648,-2147483648,-2147483648                       Slots=000  Response=":"  <DisableSoftLimits() gState.nAixs = 4>
DP 0,0,0                                                     Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
AB 1                                                         Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
CN -1                                                        Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true Limits low unchecked!>
CN ,-1                                                       Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true Homes low unchecked!>
KPD=0                                                        Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
KID=0                                                        Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
KDD=0                                                        Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
OFD=0                                                        Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true >
TM 1000                                                      Slots=000  Response=":"  <ResetControl() EStop=true !>
OP 3                                                         Slots=000  Response=":"  <UpdateOutputs()>
MO ABC                                                       Slots=000  Response=":"  <CloseWindow()>
WT200                                                        Slots=000  Response=":"  <CloseWindow()>
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 03, 2014, 02:03:45 AM
A lot of Mach videos here: http://www.machsupport.com/videos/ (http://www.machsupport.com/videos/)
And the main Mach doc is here: http://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf (http://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf)

Galil docs are here: http://www.galilmc.com/support/manuals.php (http://www.galilmc.com/support/manuals.php)  Get both the Command Reference and the User's Manual for your controller.  Read the user's manual first.  Top to bottom.  Then read it again.  LOL!  I'm not going to sugar coat it...  It is going to be painful!  :)  But I have found that with most technical docs, a person just doesn't start putting it all together until the second time through.  At least that is the way I am.  Chapters 3, 5, and 6 are the most applicable though.  So maybe read it once through and then re-read those chapters.

Steve

Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 02:10:33 AM
on a side note. I installed Galiltools and I could not get it to connect to the card. i then downloaded SmartTerm, it prompted to reinstall the drivers and it does communicate with the board. is that ok? Mach seams able to communicate with the card fine though...

I have some reading to do!!!!
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 03, 2014, 02:13:00 AM
Everything looks good.  Except I notice that your A,B, and C Galil axes have the default PID values.  Are you running analog servos with +-10v command signals?  If so, I bet you are going to have to do some tuning!  But the spindle config looks good.  

In the Galil terminal, what voltage dos the command OFD=5 produce on the MOCMDD with reference to GND?  

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 03, 2014, 02:14:17 AM
The Galil tools driver may not support the older 1842s.  :(

Make sure you use the Galil-st plugin with Smart Term.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 02:24:02 AM
Everything looks good.  Except I notice that your A,B, and C Galil axes have the default PID values.  Are you running analog servos with +-10v command signals?  If so, I bet you are going to have to do some tuning!  But the spindle config looks good. 

In the Galil terminal, what voltage dos the command OFD=5 produce on the MOCMDD with reference to GND? 

Steve

I dont have a MOCMDD pin out on the ICM-2900 and what exactly is the "Galil terminal"?


The Galil tools driver may not support the older 1842s.  :(

Make sure you use the Galil-st plugin with Smart Term.

Steve

How do I verify that?
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 03, 2014, 02:40:49 AM
MODCMDW probably.  The ICMs can be labeled wither way.

Galil terminal is Smart Term.  It has a terminal window that lets you type commands to the controller.  Yes, you have some reading to do!  :)

If you are talking to the card, then you are probably good to go with the plugin version.  So don't worry about that.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 03, 2014, 02:44:21 AM
Thanks for all the help... I'll report back after I've done a bit of reading.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on April 03, 2014, 01:53:25 PM
Steve as usual thanks for all of the info. I think I may have possibly given up if it was not for you. AND I NEVER GIVE UP !!!

Wilde racing this is the plugin Steve is talking about.
 http://www.smcomp.com/~smurph/galil/Galil-st.zip

I had to unistall Mach and reinstall to change plug ins. It seems to only see the first one. I spent about 12 hours trying to figure out that one!
Joe
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on April 11, 2014, 12:13:31 AM
Steve/ Smurph

If controlling a spindle from Mach do you have to have an extra axis available on the card?
ie I have a 3 axis card running x,y z would I have to have a 4 axis card to control 0-10v output for the spindle?
The spindle motor will not have an encoder.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 11, 2014, 11:54:01 PM
Yes, you need a spare axis to run the spindle.  However, if you only have a 3 axis Galil, you can control the spindle with other hardware or means.  A modbus capable VFD, for example.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 13, 2014, 08:45:22 PM
So I read the mach manual , but I did not come across anything that explains how to configure the "brain" for my I/O's... Also, I was chasing wires today and I realized my machine has limit switches but the report only to the drivers, The dynapath just shows a fault in the servo that was tripped. So I guess I will keep this the way it is?

Starting the galil manual now.... YUCK..
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 13, 2014, 09:56:44 PM
There is a video that best describes brains.  Not all I/O needs to be handled by a brain.  Limits and homes, for instance.  And general inputs that can be mapped in ports and pins.

For your limits, the drives probably output the limit signal as well.  My Yaskawa drives are like this.  Limits are wired to the drives and the driives provide a signal to the Galil which in turn supplies a signal to the Plugin/Mach.  It is imperative that the limits are hooked up if you plan on homing with them.  If you also have home switches, then it is not as important.  But it would still be nice to look at the Mach screen to tell if you have hit a limit.  So wire them if you can.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 13, 2014, 11:46:11 PM
No home switches, I can't figure out which wires from the drives amps send the signal of a hit limit, but there are still wires to be tracked... I was thinking of installing some home switches..
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 16, 2014, 01:57:38 AM
Ok, so the limit switch "talk" to the servo amps only. There are no other wires from the amps to the dynapath. But yet when a limit is hit the dynapath shows a fault for that axis, no mention of limit, just a fault. With the dynapath only connected to the amps via two wires +/- 10volts I have no clues where it gets the limit info???? My first thought of a solution is just to "T" into the limit switch wiring and connect it to the I/O board... Thoughts????


Next, I did a half-a$$ control where I wired the encoders and the servo control wires to the galil I/O, then turned on the dynapath to supply all other voltages needed for running the mill. I can control all three axis with mach3 (woohoo) but I'm getting no encoder information. The ports and pins are all checked to unable and the all of the ports and pins have a "0" for an address. Basically same as the servos. But nothing, the encoders are getting power and ground, they are also configured right for the "counts". Any ideas???
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 16, 2014, 08:12:22 PM
What drives are they?  Model # and make.  There has to be a way around that!  Hard to tell not being able to look at it and all...

Make sure that the motors are "enable" on the ports and pins screen.  No need to set step and dir pins.  Just enable them.

Steve

Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 16, 2014, 08:47:01 PM
I'll get the amps info now. The ports and pins are enabled for the servos and encoders. But the encoders are not responding in mach3
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 16, 2014, 08:56:55 PM
Please excuse the rats nest. I cut all the zip ties to verify wiring..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/C3FDA861-F404-4FB3-BF76-EAFD93165A49_zpsf4isdafg.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/WildeRacing/media/Mobile%20Uploads/C3FDA861-F404-4FB3-BF76-EAFD93165A49_zpsf4isdafg.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/B035CE80-E58C-430D-BC96-67ED11AF3FAA_zps86dcxxf7.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/WildeRacing/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B035CE80-E58C-430D-BC96-67ED11AF3FAA_zps86dcxxf7.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/8DE7E65F-554F-40FC-AB32-012C0FBEF77C_zpsse8wpxmb.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/WildeRacing/media/Mobile%20Uploads/8DE7E65F-554F-40FC-AB32-012C0FBEF77C_zpsse8wpxmb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 16, 2014, 10:45:04 PM
http://www.ormec.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=upw7DE2FD8A%3D&tabid=168&mid=757 (http://www.ormec.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=upw7DE2FD8A%3D&tabid=168&mid=757)

That is the manual for your drives.  It looks like you may need to wire the limits in parallel with the Galil.  :(

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 17, 2014, 08:34:03 AM
Do you think I should replace the drives? The Y axis won't balance perfect with the dynapath...
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 17, 2014, 06:17:05 PM
By balance, you mean not drift?  If so, you can use the OF command on the Galil to correct.  And I believe there is a pot on the amp that can adjust that to.  And the point become moot once the servos are energized and the Galil is holding them in position.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 18, 2014, 02:46:14 AM
No, Within the dynapath controller there was a delay that needed to read zero, You adjust via pots on the boards. The servos/axis never drift.

Any Ideas on the Encoders not reporting? I have them configured as 0 and 0 in the ports and pins. With them check marked green. I also checked the wiring, the encoders are getting the voltage they need, so the Galil is supplying it.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: HillBilly on April 18, 2014, 08:27:36 AM
See what you have in this setting in the plugin config.

Darek
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 18, 2014, 09:31:42 AM
Both options under "motor options" are unchecked. Otherwise my screen is identical.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 18, 2014, 01:25:37 PM
Hmm...  Are you able to run the Galil with the Terminal.  Meaning do you get encoder counts in the watch window?

You do not have to setup the Mach encoders for the Galil, so that isn't it.  They should be fed to Mach by the plugin.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 18, 2014, 11:04:11 PM
So after reading the manual.... I found out the index +/- is not where I connect my encoder, once I moved the two wires to A+ and B+ the encoders respond!!! Now I just need to wire a bit more up and start tunning... I'll be back once I start that lol
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 19, 2014, 02:53:41 AM
Ok, well I thought I had this under control, but the spindle is being difficult. Does anyone have any information on this dude??

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/F6A9300A-CBB8-4DA8-853C-60F705968A72_zpsdmffpqmg.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/WildeRacing/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F6A9300A-CBB8-4DA8-853C-60F705968A72_zpsdmffpqmg.jpg.html)


Also once I turn on the servo amps x, y, and z all start drifting around until they hit the limits (which I have not wired into the I/O yet. I can't get them to stop. Within the galil status window the positions are way out there.. Is this why the axis are moving? Or is it because I have the servos or encoders wired in reverse?

Poor man screenshots... Actually it's past midnight and I'm too tired to open word pad. :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/E5B54384-65F1-448A-B45C-1EA8D76EC1C8_zpsitpofz2s.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/WildeRacing/media/Mobile%20Uploads/E5B54384-65F1-448A-B45C-1EA8D76EC1C8_zpsitpofz2s.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/04286666-3C5A-42C0-9424-F1723EB80CEC_zpsczuce2ox.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/WildeRacing/media/Mobile%20Uploads/04286666-3C5A-42C0-9424-F1723EB80CEC_zpsczuce2ox.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 19, 2014, 08:29:03 PM
After I have done some reading I have three issues to resolve. 1: Wiring the spindle. Right now the signal to turn on the spindle comes from a PLC which the Dynapath talks to. I could try to send the same signals ( I did this with jumper wires last night) but the signal the Dynapath sends is on three wires 24v+ and is a momentary signal. Almost a full second is needed for the PLC to latch and power up the spindle. Another option is just to bypass the PLC and allow mach3 to run it. 2: When the Servos hit their limits, they shut down, The servo amps some how allow the dynapath to move them off their limits, but I can't get mach to do it. This could due to issue three.... 3: The servos seam to not respond correctly to commands, in fact they are moving as soon as they are turned on, see post above. I've went through both the galil manual and the westamp manual, I cant seam to find a solution. I did run into this and I'm wondering if this is my issue...

http://www.galilmc.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6309
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 25, 2014, 01:28:03 AM
Hmm...  could be.  I need to look at the Westamp manual again.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 25, 2014, 01:44:56 AM
Um no.  I think the drives will work as expected. 

Do you see the encoders creeping when in SmartTerm?  Try one motor at a time.

SHA

That command will enable the servo loop for the motor connected to the Galil A/X.  It should stop the motor drifting or the motor should oscillate, depending on the PID setting in the Galil.

MOA should disable the servo loop and allow drift.  If the motors drift without a command voltage from the Galil, then adjust the balance pot on that amp until th drift disappears.

Steve

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 25, 2014, 08:27:51 PM
Thank you, I got them to stop drifting when no signal is sent. I'll try your suggestion and report back.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 30, 2014, 01:34:08 AM
It is still drifting unfortunately...  would it be easier to upgrade these dump servo controllers????
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 30, 2014, 01:43:52 AM
Also can anyone give me information on this spindle controller?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/WildeRacing/Mobile%20Uploads/F6A9300A-CBB8-4DA8-853C-60F705968A72_zpsdmffpqmg.jpg)
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 01:52:03 AM
Nope.  I see a date of 84.  That is pre-internet for sure!  I think they were bought out by Fincor.  So maybe some Fincor docs might be applicable.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 30, 2014, 02:11:14 AM
What do you suggest for my drifting x,y,z? They hold steady with no signal. Maybe new servo drives and a vfd would make my life easier...
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 02:19:20 AM
Possibly.  But they should hod steady with SH.

The main thing is the Galil cannot hold them still if the encoders are not providing feedback.  So the encoders working properly is crucial!  And then the KP, KI, and KD Galil parameters need to be set as well.  The last I saw in your debug output was that they were set at stock values. 

So are the encoders working?

Go into the terminal and issue this:

DPA=0
SHA

This will set the encoder count to 0 for the motor on the Galil X axis and then activate the servo loop for that axis as well.  What you should see is the encoder count at or near zero.  If it is some wild out there value, then you don't have the encoders hooked up right.

Where are you located? 

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 30, 2014, 09:34:23 AM
California
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 05:07:21 PM
Oh hell...  Too far for me then.  :(
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: bubba on April 30, 2014, 06:09:03 PM
Where are you Steve?

I am in Virginia very close to Washington DC.

Joe
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 30, 2014, 09:40:00 PM
I wonder if there is a ground issue? The encoders are grounded to the mill frame as well as the ground I/O, but no other grounds are connected to the I/O. I dont see how it would affect the signals from the drivers????
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 10:23:30 PM
Where are you Steve?

I am in Virginia very close to Washington DC.

Joe

I'm in Alabama, near Birmingham.

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 10:24:37 PM
I wonder if there is a ground issue? The encoders are grounded to the mill frame as well as the ground I/O, but no other grounds are connected to the I/O. I dont see how it would affect the signals from the drivers????

The encoders should feed directly into the Galil.  Are they single ended or differential?

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 10:29:55 PM
The bottom line is that I think you will have the same issues even if you spent money on new drives.  The thing we HAVE to figure out is getting encoder input to the Galil and then tune the servo loop.  If we have a drive that will move with a command signal and encoders reporting back position info to the Galil, then that should be doable.  We just have to get there.

Is the PC hooked up to the internet where I could remote control it?  With you on Skype by the machine so that we could talk our way through some tests?

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on April 30, 2014, 10:57:50 PM
Yes and that would be wonderful.. I'd throw some money your way for your time!!!
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: smurph on April 30, 2014, 11:56:33 PM
Send me your Skype username to smurph at smcomp dot com and I will try contacting you tomorrow.  I'm in the Central time zone but I operate on the Pacific time zone hours.  :)  So don't expect an early session!

Steve
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on May 01, 2014, 12:06:59 AM
I'll go set one up now. I usually am up late and I'll work around your schedule
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on July 27, 2014, 07:39:27 PM
Well I'm back at it. With the help of Steve, I figured out a few wiring problems, but I still can't seem to get the Servos to hold under the SH command.
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on January 30, 2017, 11:48:16 PM
Thread from the dead!!! I have had a lot change in my life and I'm now able to restart this project. Steve are you still around????
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on February 18, 2017, 09:49:12 AM
Well the three year break must have been just what the mill needed because I got the servos working with the smarterm. The issues/questions I have now is the spindle control. I have five wires going to the spindle control/driver thinggy. Two wires are I believe 0-10v enable. The other three are direction control I think..... So to use Mach/galil to control the spindle I thought I could use my fourth axis control??? But the spindle has no encoder or feedback to the card so will Mach/galil be ok with no feedback on W but still control the spindle???

Second issue/question. The old westamp A651 is velocity controlled, I also have single ended encoders, I've heard this is unstable possibly unsafe. Should I look into new servo drives? If so what drives?

Third issue. The limit switches. I think I will have to run the limit switch in parallel with the servo drivers and Mach. Or I could just run the limit switches to Mach/galil and let the the servo enable feature turn off the drivers when the limits have been tripped? Would that be ok?
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Wilde Racing on March 29, 2017, 04:41:54 PM
Seams this forum is a bit dead....
Title: Re: Old Dynapath System 10 upgrading to Galil CS 18420 ICM 2900 No idea on wiring???
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on March 30, 2017, 02:50:49 AM
Seams this forum is a bit dead....

It's generally best to start a new thread if a topic has been dormant for a extended period of time.  ;)

Tweakie.