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Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: TXJM on February 05, 2014, 10:55:46 PM

Title: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 05, 2014, 10:55:46 PM
I am Very new to Mach3 setup.  This is also my first attempt at setting up steppers.  I do have a running instance of Mach3 to reference but don't know if that is helping or hurting me right now.  I picked up basically a Sherline mill in a really cool enclosure for my daughter.  It had an onboard computer and proprietary software.  I pitched that and am trying to run Mach3 and a cnc4pc c11 and the existing stepper drivers and motors.  so far I think I have the wiring correct to drive the 3 axis.  I have done very basic config on Mach 3.  I have the pins and port selected for X,Y and Z.  When I jog the axis I get lights on the bo board on the pins where I expect them.  I am getting a step and direction light when I jog in one direction, I can hear a click in the motor and I can feel the screw move slightly.  I think I am getting one step.  When I jog the other direction one light goes out and I get no movement.  when I go back to the first direction I get both lights and the movement.  I am wondering if I need to change one of the port/pin settings to active low??  I see step signal in Mach 3 when I jog in both directions. 
Any help is appreciated.  I read the setup pdf but it wasn't enough.  I did some searching on the forum with no luck.
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: Hood on February 06, 2014, 03:04:05 AM
Have you set your steps per unit correctly in Motor Tuning?
Have you possibly got the Jog mode in Step mode? (press Tab on keyboard for flyout screen)

Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 06, 2014, 10:46:01 PM
I did not set anything in the motor tuning.  I checked it tonight and it is set at 2000 and 100ipm.  It should do something.  I went to jog mode and tried all the modes.  No change.  Any other setting to check before I go back to looking at hardware.  I also tested active low step checked and unchecked.  No change. 
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: Fastest1 on February 07, 2014, 10:13:34 AM
  Steppers are locking up when powered? Does it have hand wheels (finger wheels on a Sherline LOL)? You are hearing a thump during 1 of the directions requested but not the other?

  Any pics of the assembly?

   Guessing you are from Texas as am I, oddly my initials are JM. You are not me are you? OK that was a joke but I do have a Sherline.

Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 07, 2014, 07:17:49 PM
I will pull a motor off the machine and see if it is free and try running it off the mount.  it only makes a noise and twitches in one direction.
what would you like a picture of board wiring?  right now I am jumping wires to test so it isn't pretty.
I am a little west of Ft Worth. 
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 07, 2014, 08:42:02 PM
I played with the motor on the z axis.  The motor is free.  jog is set to cont.  when I jog z up, step and dir led's on the bob light and I get what looks like one step's worth of movement on the motor even though the diagnostic screen shows constant movement on the z axis as long as I hold the button down.  when I jog down the dir light goes out but I get no movement on the motor but I do get movement on the diagnostic screen.  it is consistent on the y axis also. 
I get a step when I jog from the arrow keys but not from the fly out controller.  I don't get anything from the controller.
the driver boards are oem and are wired as built except for the input wires from the bob.  I did play with changing the step and dir wires and I got nothing.
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 07, 2014, 10:32:53 PM
The only other thing that I can think of is the Driver wiring from the board to the driver.  the driver has 4 wires going to it.  yel, gray, red and black.  from what I could tell from powering the mill up before I removed the onboard pc, the yellow and Gray are step and direction.  I assumed that the red and black were 5v and G.  I have the c11 board jumped so the common on the output is +5.  I wired the red to that and the black to the ground on the output.  I am assuming that since I am getting one step, my wiring is correct.  May not be the case.  From reading specs on another driver, maybe the red is an enable and the black is a common ground???  Maybe I need to change the jumper back to - common and connect black to that. Any ideas?
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: Fastest1 on February 08, 2014, 02:27:03 PM
  A few ideas. Though you are detecting something when a direction key is pressed, can you turn the stepper by hand when the controller is on? It should offer significant resistance, especially if you are trying to turn it by the shaft (does it have a hand wheel?). You can overpower a stepper by hand when powered but it is difficult. No harm will be done,  it just trying to make sure it is powered.
   If the machine was working prior then change the wiring back to the way it was when operable. There are many settings within Mach or EMC that allow pin assignments and such. We want to minimize any variables if possible.

  You mention 4 wires coming from the driver. I am assuming they are coming from the BOB to the driver, not from the driver to the stepper (again assuming the stepper is a 4 wire in this case). One thing I have found is that machine wiring doesnt seem to follow any convention I am familiar with in regards to color. It might from an industrial standard but the typical "black for ground, red for +" is not always the case.

   The issue with the flyout is odd. You do have other machines that are CNC correct? And you are familiar with Mach? If not familiar with Mach and you used the flyout, there is a resolution button that only affects that screen, not the direction keys on the keyboard. It has 3 options (maybe 4?) IIRC, they are 1,.1,.01,.001 and .0001. If in one of the finer resolutions, movement would be difficult to detect.

  Dont worry about the rats nest during set up. Most of us except those that are very organized go thru this. Probably not the best way, but you wont be the first by any stretch. That being said I wouldnt really be changing anything regarding wiring just yet.

  Also I am assuming you have the particular axis "enabled" within Mach. It appears you do from the DRO's and the diagnostics screen.

  Finally, Pictures, yes! It does help in identifying steppers, driver chips, BOB's (though you said you are running a C11) and power supplies etc. Simple ones taken with your cell phone and preferably hosted here and not on a secondary site. Ok, that last one might be a personal peave. I just dont want to go to dropbox or any other site to see the pictures of a problem discussed here. I understand many have build logs and posting in both is fine IMO. Others here might need this info in the future. It would be nice if it is self contained.

   With a little info and some research on your drivers etc, we should be able to get it running quickly. If you pm me your number as we get further along (assuming you dont get it straightened out prior) I will walk you thru what I know. That should be every bit of a 15 second discussion! ;-)


Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 08, 2014, 09:46:48 PM
I will check to see if the motor is holding or just moving a step.  You can definitely see it move, it is set on full step. 

The mill was never operable.  I did not have the old software and the old computer's backup battery was dead and it was not booting up properly.  When it came up the spindle motor cranked up and the OI screen lit and that was about it. 

4 wire from the bob to driver.  I did not touch driver settings or wiring that brought the 40V in or the output wiring to the motor.

I do have another cnc.  I am definitely not fluent.  I do not usually use the keyboard or flyout.  I use a usb pendant.  I do know what you are talking about on the resolution.  I will look at the resolution but I do not see any movement on the dro either.

I am trying to do this one step at a time and keep it easy to trouble shoot.  I have connected Y and Z to make sure they were acting consistently.  I have enabled x, y and z.  The biggest problem I have right now is that I have no documentation on the drivers.  I was about to buy drivers because I have tried everything that I know how to do.  I am sure that documented drivers would make this a much easier process.

You have an email.

Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 08, 2014, 09:48:56 PM
picture of old control.  The old control is gone.  the drivers, power supply and spindle drive are still on the backplane.  I added the c11 and a 5v power supply where the old control/computer was.
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: Fastest1 on February 09, 2014, 10:48:53 AM
   It is using an L297 driver chip.  How long is the duration of pulse? (this under config/motor tuning & setup). Lengthen it to 5 as a test. This is the amount of time (in microsecoonds IIRC) the direction or step signal is presented to the chip. On some machines if this setting is too low the controller never sees it. Some people use "Sherline" mode (again found in config/ports & pins/Port setup & Axis selection). Try both of these settings, first independently and then combined if all else fails. Dont forget to do a restart after changing to Sherline mode, it warns you on the page too.

   Are you a member over on CncZone? If not I suggest you join there too. Not knocking Mach and the helpful people here at all. This is more of a motion control software site whereas the Zone has specific builds and electronics sections that deal specifically with the products in your board. Personally I and quite a few here enjoy both.

Btw, I did just come across this site where it looks like they have offerings to interface with the original equipment of D&M and many other brands. So if all else fails all hope is not lost. I think we should be able to work with what you have if it is operable. Nothing is blatantly obvious in your pictures like burnt or swollen electronics etc.
Title: Re: D&M 4S Upgrade Config question
Post by: TXJM on February 11, 2014, 07:03:13 PM
I thought I would update this one more time.  the picture is the oem bob.  I believe I have my wiring pairs correct.   I believe red and black are the commons since the traces for each go to the same pins on each axis connection.   I have tried all the iterations of those that I can with my current settings.  I have purchased a new (documented) driver so that I could eliminate one variable.  I should only have Mach3 settings and bob settings to contend with. 
Fastest1, the uk website hardware doesn't work with Mach 3.