Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Promote and discuss your product => Topic started by: shad71 on November 30, 2013, 01:26:42 AM
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The Neuron.THC is a ARM microprocessor-based torch height control system which controls the torch-to-work distance of a plasma torch during cutting operations. The system includes a control module, plasma system interface module, interconnecting cables and optional operator control module.
-Works with all plasma cutting systems.
-Connect via Ethernet interface to Mach3 CNC and controls Z axis directly. No additional parallel port or port multiplexing.
-All Parameters are set and displayed from Control Panel integrated in Mach3. Quick access and changing of all parameters.
-Unlimited number of cut profiles for different metal thicknesses. Quickly switch between profiles and the ability to quick edit them.
-No matter to set parameters in G-Code.
-Set point resolution - 0.25V
-Set point range - 25 - 250V
-Maximum control accuracy - +/-0.25V
-Voltage feedback (divider) - 1:20, 1:10 of Arc Voltage
-Buffered Step & Direction for direct interface to Motor Drive.
-All inputs are isolated and Simple wiring.
-Sample voltage mode - THC measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut.
-Skip IHS mode - If the next starting point is within this distance of the end of the previous cut, the THC skips the IHS.
-Improved Jog - the lifter initially jogs 0.25 mm. After 0.5 second, it begins continuous motion at the IHS Speed. After 1.5 seconds, the lifter increases the speed to the programmed Manual Speed.
-Automatic control of ventilation.
-There are the relays on the board which produce Preflow during IHS and Pierce End signals.
-Integrated diagnostic system informs the operator of the errors that occurred.
-Ability to work in trial mode without limitation functions until the end of the set value of the pierce count. Further work is possible after entering the activation code (for OEM manufacturer).
-Easy Software update using the utility NeuronFlasher.
-....... https://sites.google.com/site/thcneuron/neuron-thc-english (https://sites.google.com/site/thcneuron/neuron-thc-english)
(https://5684ee6a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/thcneuron/neuron-thc-english/MainBoard800.png?attachauth=ANoY7cqQ-F_tWuuPdJ9oYvOfHeO0U0Dzzqvk1k2x3unLAzLMyyB8i7jAXFZDQe3Ifbi128HVJwiB81Ul27X7-xhlLF26IqiA9eljvTtpwCry1zTOmZcbNkjQ_etO8SrSUYOovE_73JEHY76chJ3j4PGiCuqQzEm69VuEGouD-Ui19FH07vf4GY21FkGHZ6_7r8F0fPPOuFB0pYEoOrXJev6z5qEMXgN3vM6syTwoc8kq7RwhtaEU9xk%3D&attredirects=0)
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Neuron.THC is standalone Torch Height Controller, connected to Mach3 via 10/100 Base-T Ethernet interface and controls the Z axis motor driver directly (internal motion controller).
Neuron.THC is not use Mach3 internal THC logic. Only commands Start, Stop, Motion, AVC enable/disable...etc. Ethernet connection frees LPT port, provides a powerful, real-time and user-friendly interface. All Parameters are programmed and displayed from Control window integrated in Mach3 (the window has a size of 450x330 pixels and can be used with your favorite ScreenSet).
Unlike other THC's in this price category, the processing power behind the Neuron.THC is an 32-bit ARM microprpocessor. The Neuron.THC uses advanced DSP (digital signal processing) software servo control loops to control speed, position and arc voltage with unparalleled precision. Servo cycle is 500 microseconds, it is 200 times faster than the internal logic of the THC Mach3.
The Neuron.THC consists of the following components:
- Control module (board)
Plasma interface module (board)
Optional operator’s control module (board)
Interface Cables
Mach3 Plugin and Screenset for plasma cutting applications
Сontrol module board has a size 125x150 mm and can be easily embedded inside the CNC controller. Connection is very simple.
Features
The Neuron.THC comes standard with the following features:
- Works with ALL plasma cutting systems
Connect via 10/100 Base-T Ethernet interface to Mach3 CNC and controls Z axis directly (Internal motion controller, Software DSP (digital signal processing) control loop - 500 uS cycle)
Unlimited number of cut profiles for different metal thicknesses. Quickly switch between profiles and the ability to quick edit them
Set point resolution - .25V
Set point range - 25 - 250V (set just by clicking the mouse button and wheel on the Target Arc Voltage textbox on ControlPanel or turning the encoder knob on the operator panel)
Maximum control accuracy - +/- .25V
Voltage feedback (divider) - 1:20 (Hypitherm), 1:10 (internal) of Arc Voltage
100 kHz maximum step frequency
Automatic or manual control of the cutting sequence
Retract height selectable between full or programmed partial raise height
Programmable automatic positioner speed
Programmable manual positioner speed
Programmable maximum Z axis stroke (SoftLimit function)
Programmable arc transfer height
Programmable pierce height
Programmable pierce time
Programmable cutting height
Programmable AVC (arc voltage control) delay time
Programmable torch retract height
Programmable Jump height above the workpiece that the torch is raised to clear the top dross puddle that can form during the pierce.
Programmable IHS (initial height sensing) touch speed
Programmable AGI (automatic gas initiator) starts plasma torch preflow during IHS - enable/disable (open drain 5A 250V contact)
Programmable crossover height (high-to-low speed transition point)
Programmable AVC.OFF control to help prevent torch crashing when end of cut, circle of small radius - enable/disable, mm.
Programmable arc voltage limiter to help prevent torch crashing when crossing a kerf - enable/disable, level, voltage
Programmable arc voltage control loop proportional gain
Sample voltage mode - THC measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut.
Skip IHS mode - If the next starting point is within this distance of the end of the previous cut, the THC skips the IHS.
Improved Jog - the lifter initially jogs 0.25 mm. After 0.5 second, it begins continuous motion at the IHS Speed. After 1.5 seconds, the lifter increases the speed to the programmed Manual Speed
Jog just by clicking the mouse button and wheel on the Position textbox or by pressing the up / down button on Operator Panel
Buffered Step & Direction for direct interface to Motor Drive (26LS31 Driver)
All inputs (include arc voltage) are isolated and Simple wiring (RJ45 connectors)
Automatic control of ventilation (open drain 5A 250V contact)
Pierce End output signals (open drain 5A 250V contact)
Built-in pierce and cut time counter to control consumables
Integrated diagnostic system informs the operator of the errors that occurred
Plotting the arc voltage and save to file for diagnostics
Easy Software update using the utility NeuronFlasher
https://sites.google.com/site/thcneuron/neuron-thc-english (https://sites.google.com/site/thcneuron/neuron-thc-english)
neuron.shad@gmail.com[/color]
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A new version of the controller - Lite.
Lite version has no relay outputs for oxygen plasma cutting systems and relay outputs for the ventilation system.
No other differences.
(https://sites.google.com/site/thcneuron/_/rsrc/1406525478362/home/NeuronLite800.png)
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Hi,
what would be the price?
And the most important question- does it offer some control at cutting corners and similar? Does it stop the torch going down?
thanks!
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Can I just correct something you've said about Mach3's internal THC functionality.
(The Neuron's) Servo cycle is 500 microseconds, it is 200 times faster than the internal logic of the THC Mach3.
...which means you're stating that Mach's THC loop period is 1/10th of a second.
This is absolutely wrong. You may be confusing it with Mach's screen update period or perhaps even Mach's macro-pump period.
The THC loop in Mach is at kernel speed so just 40 microseconds for the (slowest) 25KHz kernel.
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Hi!
...which means you're stating that Mach's THC loop period is 1/10th of a second.
Yes you're absolutely right, that the kernel speed of the Mach3 is 40 microseconds for the (slowest) 25KHz kernel, but I mean that the poll of the input signals (THCUP and THCDOWN from the most Torch Height Control system) is 1/10 of a second or from plugin (from 100 msec to 25 msec).
Hi,
what would be the price?
And the most important question- does it offer some control at cutting corners and similar? Does it stop the torch going down?
-- The price is $450 for Lite version (Main board, Operator panel board, Plasma Unit interface board).
--Yes, in the latest SW version has been added control of the ThcOn\Off from G-code on corners, small circle and end of cut (SheetCamTNG CodeSnippets option) without pause in motion. But the controller has a built-in algorithm for these events and it works just as well.
(https://5684ee6a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/thcneuron/NeuronLiteSchematic800.png?attachauth=ANoY7cq6yeN6sgy9H1VXiGZoxqqCXCRSwKu7Ho0cVfUFsNoN4cekJDl_xC-u9WbaderNqBauF_C3RixiUH9XMwUT_hIvyDmc6sJhGmSkUZWTteCv9Kpx1Y_-DdSHoUgEi6r9qkJi05SMhXcj8poKZyoO4XdaaS1e8pZSEuAs5ySJdcbds74oKDv9pprIa-ZBgPOYZH_Y6mOEzz9fSmcT8RtMHu4D1BIis1iKLjkB86cmUfQ-Xe1D7PI%3D&attredirects=0)
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I am building a machine Using Galil Ethernet board DMC-2183 and servo on all axis which most possibly will be driven in step dir mode. Normally there would be spindle mounted but from time to time i would like to plasma cut. And that without removing the spindle, just encosing its lower part for protection.
So how will that work in my case? Would that be possible? The Galil board has its own plugin to be able to work with mach3 and occupies one Ethernet port.
What are the solutions in that case? Switching to another board when plasma cutting or the control can work on its own, just sending it step dir signals and programming it separately.
Could you please shed some light on this?
Thanks!
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Hi silyavski!
You can connect Galil and Neuron to Mach3 CNC trough ethernet switch. Step/Dir output from Galil and Neuron can be connected to servo through a simple switch. When you wiil be use the spidle - Disable the Neuron power and connect galil step/dir to servo. If you will be cutting - power on Neuron and connect Neuron step/dir interface to servo. Work program you have to make in SheetCam by Mach3 Plazma no Z.spost (NO Z AXIS - all stages of the cutting will control the Neuron.THC )
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but I mean that the poll of the input signals (THCUP and THCDOWN from the most Torch Height Control system) is 1/10 of a second or from plugin (from 100 msec to 25 msec).
Hi
yes I know what you mean - but as I've said - I disagree. Please see attached logic analyser scans.
Scan1.jpg is of a test function of my THC. It's simply toggling the UP/DOWN signals to Mach every 1ms i.e at 1KHz. This is a plain vanilla Mach running the parallel port. You can see that Mach correctly responds to each and every UP/DOWN signal by toggling the DIR pin and sending a step pulse - i.e. it's doing this at 1KHz - in perfect sync with the THC. Not something it could do - I hope you agree - if Mach was just polling at 10Hz.
In the second scan I've upped the rate to 2KHz to match your 500 microseconds THC loop. Again - Mach keeps in step with it no problem.
This is not in any way to dis your THC. However I think it is wrong to state as you have both here and on your web page that...
Servo cycle is 500 microseconds, it is 200 times faster than the internal logic of the THC Mach3.
...because as I hope I've shown - it is not true.
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Hi stirling!
Your chart inspire confidence! I see that Mach3 polls the input port assigned as THCUP/THCDOWN, at the kernel speed of the Mach3.
It is unfortunate that no such data in the documents on Mach3?! I found the information that at such a rate is polled only ESTOP input.
I am very happy that now a lot of people know about it!
IMHO is not so important how fast the controller can pull the Mach3 input ports for move torch UP/DOWN, but as is fast measured arc voltage, executing a loop of the PID control and controls the motror drive in dependence on the value of the error between target and real arc voltage. And when I say about servo cycle it main = ARC voltage measurement -> PID -> Motor control.
At the beginning of the develop (8 years ago) I refused from this THCUP/THCDOWN method of torch height control. The system was either too slow or oscillated because this method does not use a PID algorithm.
Now everything is working fine. Load the program, select a profile and start cutting. :)
I correct the my web page.
Thanks!!!
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Documents! - where would the fun be? :D
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Hi Shad71,
I have an ESS for motion control which is my only ethernet port. Is there a way I can use your unit?
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Hi BLM!
Yes, of course you can. You have to add the ethernet switch and connect CNC computer, ESS and Neuron to it.
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Ok thanks! I'm still trying to get my new plasma going then I need to upgrade the THC!
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Hi BLM, this is the THC system that I use and it works great! I am running Windows 7 64 bit, Ethernet Smoothstepper, Gecko G540 and an ethernet switch and everything is good. The sample voltage mode of this unit is amazing. I cut mostly thicker material and the control is as good as it gets. I have cut over 100 parts using it and not a single failure. For customer support, Andrew knows his stuff and always answers questions right away.
For the money, even at twice the price nothing comes close to how well this THC works. Makes for a clean installation too!
-Shawn
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Ok thanks! I haven't settled on a new THC so I will definitely give it a second thought. Thankyou Brian Martin.
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Can you tell us what the difference between the Neuron Lite and the Neuron Pro.
And can you tell us the price difference also.
Thanks Mike
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Hi Mike!
Yes, now there are two versions of the controller. The base is a light version. It has all the features described in the user manual.
The Professional version is distinguished by:
- add interface to work with oxy plasma system - there are PreflowInIHS and Pierce end relay outputs.
- Enhanced protection of the ArcVoltage module against interference - as a rule, such systems have the HV or HF pilot arc
- Step/Dir interface has the differentsialny output (AM26LS31 linedriver)
- add the relay output for automatic ventilation control with settable rump time and postflow time
In February will be a new version of the Pro controller, which will work with plasma and oxy-fuel. Added outputs to control gas console and inputs for capacitive sensor. Will also be available with an RS485 interface module to communication with Hypertherm plasma.
There is a ohmic sensor for IHS procedure. It's has the sensitivity up to 1 Mom and may be connect to torch shield or nozzle and work table. The sensor is work fine with all plasma units, include HV pilot arc.
Now the Lite version cost $775, Pro version $955, Ohmic $85, Hall ArcOk sensor $25(for plasma unit without Transfer output signal)
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Ha! I just found an interesting feature.... Retry times on plasma missfire.
Could you explain this feature a little? Do you mean that if from various reasons i don't get arcok Neuron will try to start plasma how many time i choose to get arcok?
If so, it will be great!!! :)
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Hi bdrotaru!
Yes Neuron has this feature. There are two settings for this:
Retry on transfer fail
This value determines the number of times that the controller will attempt to re-start the plasma after failing to transfer. The controller removes and reapplies the start signal on each re-start attempt.
Setting: 0 – 10
Transfer time
This is the number of seconds that the controller will wait for transfer before attempting a retry.
Setting: 0 – 10 seconds
If the arc transfer will not be received after all attempts - controller issues an error message to the operator.
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Shad71,
My concern is that my plate marker (air scribe) is attached to my z axis and it only has about 2 inches of travel, if the neuron is in control of z how does one implement the plate marker since mach will have no idea where the z axis is?
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AFAIK Air scribe is controlled pneumatically. You don't need to know where Z is because in pneumatic circuit you will have only 2 positions. Top Up and On The Plate.
Take a look on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPgbngKA0qQ
You will see that you don't have to concern about this
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yes that is exactly how my scribe works except my scribe slide is attached to my z axis and the scribe only moves about 2 to 3 inches... i have almost 8 inches of travel on my z axis because i am sometimes cutting on channel or i beam... so mach knowing where the z is can position it close enough to the material that the shorter movement scribe can still reach the plate , as a matter of fact my post has mach probe the surface with the floating torch switch then retracts 1 inch before scribing. It doesn't probe between every scribe , just the first time to locate the material.
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Hi, I want to take attention to our new product.
It is new Full Stand Alone Neuron Torch Height Control (THC) works with any CNC (Mach3, Mach4, Linux EMC2 and other). Controller use discrete I/O interface to CNC and plasma cutter.
More information on our web site http://neuroncnc.com/products/neuronalone (http://neuroncnc.com/products/neuronalone)
UserManual http://neuroncnc.com/assets/docs/NeuronSimplicityUserManual.pdf (http://neuroncnc.com/assets/docs/NeuronSimplicityUserManual.pdf)
The Neuron.THC Simplicity consists of the following components:
-Control module
-Plasma supply interface PCB (Voltage Divider)
-CNC interface PCB
(http://neuroncnc.com/assets/images/pictures/NeuronSimplicity300.png) (http://neuroncnc.com/assets/images/pictures/NeuronMainModule300.png)
The Neuron.THC Simplicity comes with the following features:
-Single chip microprocessor based compact control, easy to install almost anywhere
-Digital display and set arc voltage and other parameters, easy to learn and operate
-Works with ALL plasma cutters
-Controls Z axis motor driver directly (Pulse/Dir interace, internal motion controller, software PID control loop)
-30 cut profiles for different metal thicknesses. Quickly switch between profiles and the ability to quick edit them
-Set point voltage range 25 - 250V
-Set Point voltage resolution 0.5V
-Maximum control accuracy +/- 0.25V
-Height control accuracy +/-0.125 mm (.005") using a properly configured Z-axis.
-Works in Inches or Millimeters mode
-Automatic or manual control of the cutting sequence
-Sample voltage mode - THC measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut
-Automatic Collision Avoidance. This safety feature allows the control to automatically adjust the torch height during a cut to help prevent torch crashes
-THC OFF hardware input for control from CNC to disable automatic control when corners, end of cut, circle of small radius
-Programmable arc voltage limiter Lock Head Down to help prevent torch diving and crashing when crossing a kerf, corners, end of cut
-Programmable arc voltage control loop dynamic (gain) value
-Works with Float Head and Ohmic sensors for IHS simultaneously (availability of ohmic input depend from controller version PCB)
-Shot mode – can use for marking centers of the holes
-Improved Jog - the lifter initially jogs 0.25 mm. After 0.5 second, it begins continuous motion at the IHS Speed. After 1.5 seconds, the lifter increases the speed to the programmed Manual Speed
-Programmable torch retract delay. This future for example can use for disabling plasma power supply before end of cut (few tens of milliseconds) without motion stop for reducing pierce divots
-Built in Testing mode of the cutting sequence
-Integrated diagnostic system informs the operator about errors that occurred
-All I/O interface (include arc voltage) are isolated and simple wiring (Cat5e cables and RJ45 connectors)
Signals from/to plasma source to control module interface:
-Arc voltage: 0-12.5V (20:1 input) or 0-350 V Raw arc voltage input
-Start plasma (Normal Open Relay Contact 100 mA protected) output
-ArcOK (Transfer) input
Signals from/to CNC to control module:
-Cycle Start (5V DC for activation, polarity is not important) input
-THC OFF (5V DC for activation, polarity is not important) input
-Motion (Normal Open relay contacts 100 mA protected) output