Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: menglor on November 06, 2013, 12:23:06 PM
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Ok, So I am posting this from work, and I want to add that I will be posting a video later so you can actually see my problem.
So first of all, I am not even sure where to post this thread, so if it needs to be moved please do so, but I figured its all over the place, so General was the place to start.
So I am a newb at this, but I think I am far enough a long that I shouldnt be running into this, and I am hoping its obvious to someone.
I cant tell if the problem is in BobCad or in mach 3, or maybe in the post processor.
the Short version is:
I draw a box in bob cad, I make a recess in the block and run a simulation and everything looks perfect on Screen. I "post and Save" the Gcode in bobCad, open it in MAch 3, and everything loads fine. but when I switch to the Tool View, I see the box I made, but the recess toolpath is about 10-20mm beside the stock.
The long version: (I was following this as a guide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Es52fJ1js)
- Open a new project in BobCad.
- draw a 100mm x 100mm block (centered)
- Draw a 50mm x 50mm Block.
- translated the part to x,y zero.
highlighted all of the pieces, and then clicked on the piece to zero it.
- next I picked stock geometry and shift selected the outside box.
- next I selected the tool path and selected pocketing
- I select the geometry
- Click Finish
- I click compute toolpath.
- I click Verify
once I am here everything seems to work visually.
so I click Post and save and store the file on the HD.
So now when I head over to mach3, I open it and move over to the tab and look at the work. I see a purple box, and a toolpath thats over to the right of the stock where its going to build the pocket.
and thats where I am confused. I dont understand where it all got confused. I have tried it 2 different ways , once with the centering, and once with just leaving it as is.
and in both cases it appears this way.
I should mention that everything is set up for Metric, so there is a chance that something is getting screwed up, but OH GOD, I dont want to re-confirgure everything for SAE
I hope to post the video tonight, of me running through the process, but I figured maybe someone might know the problem without seeing the video.
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Sounds like you may just be needing to set the X Y Z zero in Mach to suit the code and the position you have the stock.
I will wait to see your video before I can say for sure however :)
Hood
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here is the actual Gcode its making.
(BEGIN PREDATOR NC HEADER)
(MACH_FILE=3AXVMILL_MM.MCH)
(MTOOL T1 S1 D12.7 H127. DIAM_OFFSET 1 = 6.35)
(MTOOL T2 S1 D12.7 H127. DIAM_OFFSET 2 = 6.35)
(SBOX X-.877 Y-.877 Z-25.4 L99.123 W99.123 H0.)
(END PREDATOR NC HEADER)
%
O100
(PROGRAM NUMBER)
(PROGRAM NAME - BOBCAD1.NC)
(POST - MACH 3 MILL NO ATC METRIC)
(DATE - WED. 11/06/2013)
(TIME - 10:25PM)
N01 G21 G40 G49 G54 G80 G90 G91.1
N02 G53 Z0.
N03 T1
N04 S1252 M03
N05 G00 G90 G54 X66.503 Y31.743
N06 G43 H1 Z2.54 M08
N07 G01 Z-12.7 F254.5827
N08 Y66.503 F496.4363
N09 X60.153
N10 Y31.743
N11 X53.803
N12 Y66.503
N13 X47.453
N14 Y31.743
N15 X41.103
N16 Y66.503
N17 X34.753
N18 Y31.743
N19 X31.745
N20 Y66.503
N21 G00 Z2.54
N22 M09
N23 M05
N24 G53 Z0.
N25 G53 X0. Y0.
N26 M01
N27 T2
N28 S1879 M03
N29 G90 G54 X30.473 Y67.773
N30 G43 H2 Z2.54 M08
N31 G01 Z-12.7 F381.8741
N32 Y30.473
N33 X67.773
N34 Y67.773
N35 X30.473
N36 G00 Z2.54
N37 M05
N38 G53 Z0.
N39 G53 Y0.
N40 M02
(END OF PROGRAM)
N41 M30
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here is the video of me reproducing my problem.
I hope someone can make heads or tails from this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-gSa9wvKOE
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Everything is fine, all that is wrong is you have not told Mach where the offset zero position is, ie the corner of your material as you selected in BobCAD.
The cube you are seeing in Mach is your work envelope as defined by the limits set in Homing and Limits page. You may not have actually set anything up there, it will depend on whether you have limit switches and are using Soft limits.
Anyway all you need to do is jog your cutter so that it is over the lower left corner of your work piece, then click zero at the side of X and Y DROs then press Regen and it should look fine after that.
Also if you click the Display button once in Mach then press Regen you will not see the cube as you will have put Mach into work piece mode rather than table mode.
Hood
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Thanks, I hope to try that tonight!
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ok, I got home and did as you said, and well it worked! KIND OF :D
I swear I have ghosts in my machine.
So, here is what I did.
I powered everything up, loaded into Mach3, and they hit the Reference Home button.
and like every other time, it zeroes out the machine. as shown the graphic bellow (look at the X).
*********************
* *
* *
X********************
Then , I load in the Gcode file I will attach in the next message.
- I move the bit too the block in the Bottom left of the stock.
- I zero the X, Y and Z
- Regen ToolPath.
- and click Start
This is when things go weird.
- It starts to Zero back to the top of the Mill, but at a incredibly slow pace. like 1 mm every 5 seconds. I would love to know how to make it do this step Faster.
- Next, it travels all the way to the Right.
*********************
* *
* *
********************X
- And then starts running through the cutting pattern that I did up in BobCad. only now, its cutting from right to left. and in the video, you can clearly see it cuts from left to right.
So, I decided, something is wrong, and I will correct this. I hit the Reference Home button. and then it starts Zeroing itself to the Right, (instead of the left)
So, NOW, I am confused, and reboot the PC, I exit Mach3 saving Nothing, reboot. and try just doing the Reference zero again.
and again, its starts Zeroing to the Right. (as seen bellow)
*********************
* *
* *
********************X
So I am really confused. Am I loosing it?
I took a screenshot of mach3 running through the program. , as you can see, its processing from the right to the left.
but WHY? I didnt change anything in the config, did the Gcode change it? seems odd that it would.
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here is the new Gcode, its more or less the same, the stock is 200 x 50 instead of 100x100
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(BEGIN PREDATOR NC HEADER)
(MACH_FILE=3AXVMILL_MM.MCH)
(MTOOL T1 S1 D10. H127. DIAM_OFFSET 1 = 5.)
(SBOX X0. Y0. Z-25.4 L100. W50. H0.)
(END PREDATOR NC HEADER)
%
O100
(PROGRAM NUMBER)
(PROGRAM NAME - BOBCAD1.NC)
(POST - MACH 3 MILL NO ATC METRIC)
(DATE - FRI. 11/08/2013)
(TIME - 12:17AM)
N01 G21 G40 G49 G54 G80 G90 G91.1
N02 G53 Z0.
N03 T1
N04 S1591 M03
N05 G00 G90 G54 X94.5 Y5.5
N06 G43 H1 Z2.54 M08
N07 G01 Z-2. F323.3201
N08 Y44.5 F630.4741
N09 X89.5
N10 Y5.5
N11 X84.5
N12 Y44.5
N13 X79.5
N14 Y5.5
N15 X74.5
N16 Y44.5
N17 X69.5
N18 Y5.5
N19 X64.5
N20 Y44.5
N21 X59.5
N22 Y5.5
N23 X54.5
N24 Y44.5
N25 X49.5
N26 Y5.5
N27 X44.5
N28 Y44.5
N29 X39.5
N30 Y5.5
N31 X34.5
N32 Y44.5
N33 X29.5
N34 Y5.5
N35 X24.5
N36 Y44.5
N37 X19.5
N38 Y5.5
N39 X14.5
N40 Y44.5
N41 X9.5
N42 Y5.5
N43 X5.503
N44 Y44.5
N45 G00 Z2.54
N46 M09
N47 M05
N48 G53 Z0.
N49 G53 Y0.
N50 M02
(END OF PROGRAM)
N51 M30
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If you attach your xml I will take a look and see if I can replicate your problem.
There is nothing in G Code that could cause the homing direction to reverse in Mach.
Hood
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I am assuming this is the one your looking for.
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Ok dont seem to have a problem with your xml however I do notice your X axis setup in Homing and Limits is a bit strange.
What I mean by that is you have the X Max as 0 and Min is a negative number. As you do not have the Home Negative box chosen I presume you are homing the X so that the tool is fully right (table fully left if a knee type machine)
Is that the case?
Hood
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the machine is a x2 clone, it looks like the harbor freight version.
and yes, its currently homing by moving the table to the left. but it wasnt doing that earlier today. it just started doing that after i loaded the gcode.
i believe I set up the settings as ou describe because of the way the controls where moving the table, and one of the video's here said something about the Z homeing to the top so you put a neg number. and the x was homing simarlry and so i made it the way i have it.
i am completly ok with re-doing it all and changing my setup, I havent been alble to really cut anything yet since its still all seems wonky.
I sense i am close, its just that somethings seem backwards
any advise is appreciated
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Ok so if you jog positive (numbers in DRO go positive) is the tool moving to the right in relation to the work (table moving left) ?
If it is then that means Mach is seeing the direction as it should and it is just your method is a bit different from standard.
If you let me know if the above is correct then I can tell you how to set up to standard method, just dont want to confuse the situation at the moment.
Hood
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so, assuming I am sitting in front of it.
(I have the 22$ ebay mach3 remote control btw)
if I push the button:
X+ bed moves to the left | DRO increments in the + (+50 from 0) | RIGHT ARROW moves bed left
X- bed moves to the right | DRO increments in the - (+30 from +50) | LEFT ARROW moves bed right
Y+ bed moves towards me | DRO increments in the + (+16 from 0) | UP ARROW moves bed towards me
Y- bed moves away from me | DRO increments in the - (0 from +16) | DOWN ARROW moves bed away from me
Z+ the milll moves down, | DRO increments in the + (0 from -8) | pg down moves head Down
Z- the milll moves down, | DRO increments in the - (-8 from 0) | pg up moves head up
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Ok X and Y sound correct but Z sounds wrong. or could be as you have Z+ and Z- moving down in the text above.
Z Zero is normally fully up and all movements down are negative values. I am talking machine coords here BTW. So looks like you may need to either change the Reversed setting in Homing or Limits or change the active state of the Direction pin, they both do the same thing so either will do.
You would then home the Z positive which would mean it is fully positive and your settings in soft limits would be Z Max as Zero and Z min as the travel of your Z but with a negative value.
Do you have a preference in which direction the X should home? For example it may be better for loading the table if it homes one way or the other. If you have no preference then it would likely be best to stick with convention and home negative. That would mean for your soft limits X Min would be zero and Max would be the amount of travel you have.
For Z fully up is zero and
Hood
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So I thought I would make a movie :D
1- So, Image 1 is what the machine looks like when I did a Ref all HOME.
2 - I then moved the machine to where I wanted to zero the machine.
3 - is where Zero was, before I reset it back to Zero
4 - is proof I reset everything to zero.
more to follow
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What is that on image 3... You have a booty call waiting? What a multitasker! no wonder you're having problems. XD
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too funny, loving that spam!
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So from there, I started recording the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2uZPUKS0GA
I still don't understand why it moves the z to zero, SO SLOWLY, you can see the Cable Tie to show how slow its turning.
I also dont understand why it wants to move the stock to the left and work its way backwards.
So, I re-zero'ed machine, then moved the X axis, from zero to its other extreme.
as seen in pick za5
I did the same in the X, Y and Z
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opps, this should be before the last post.
These are pictures of me returning to Zero, then jogging the table to the extreme end of each of the axis.
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Ok its getting late here so probably wont be able to look through the info you have posted thoroughly so this will be a quick reply.
You said a few posts back
Z+ the milll moves down, | DRO increments in the + (0 from -8) | pg down moves head Down
Z- the milll moves down, | DRO increments in the - (-8 from 0) | pg up moves head up
So which is correct the Z + or Z- , Looking at the values you give in brackets it seems to me like you have the axis the wrong way but maybe its all just typos.
Regarding the Z moving slowly that is because your code has a G53Z0 near the start, there should be a G0 preceding the G53Z0 if you wish it to be a rapid.
Hood
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I also dont understand why it wants to move the stock to the left and work its way backwards.
Regarding starting at the right hand end of the stock, that is what the code is telling it to do.
Hood
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so , I am in the shop, and I am doing the following.
ref all home
I moved the head down, so as not to hit anything, then zero'ed everything
so from the controller:
i hold the Z- button, and the head travels down, and the DRO reads -8
i hold the Z+ button, and the head travels up, and the DRO reads +17 now
i hold the pg-down button, and the head travels down, and the DRO reads +7
i hold the pg-up button, and the head travels up, and the DRO reads +2 now
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Ok that sounds correct.
Z issue is as said above, there is no G0 called so the G53 will move at the current feedrate which is 6mm/min.
The code is telling Mach to start at the right hand end of the stock, so that is correct.
Hood
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Ok that sounds correct.
Z issue is as said above, there is no G0 called so the G53 will move at the current feedrate which is 6mm/min.
The code is telling Mach to start at the right hand end of the stock, so that is correct.
Hood
Ok so before I forget :D, thanks a boat load. I am loving this personal treatment.
The G0 in front of the G53 made everything work as I think it should.
now, the Start on the right is a bit annoying, but I can live with it. I am going to try an understand why.
near as I can tell, Bobcad displays the sample starting from the left, but its starting on the left. but I think I can put up with it till I figure it out.
again! thanks for the tons of help. most appreciated
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If you attach your bobcad file I will take a look at it and see if I can figure out the problem, could be you have the axis set backwards in BobCAD. I havent used Mill in BobCAD much so thats just a wild guess.
Oh likely you will have to zip the file to attach here as I dont think a .bccd file extension will be in the allowed list.
Hood
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weird, I am sure I posted it today, but it vanished, oh well. here it is now
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Oh and BTW you can edit your BobCAD post processor to add the G0, it will be fairly straightforward to do, just make sure you make a copy of the original before you make any changes just in case ;)
Hood
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Ok will have a very quick look but its nearly 2am so likely wont post back until tomorrow, oh well later today ;D
Hood
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Thanks ever so much
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Think thats a different file, its a pocket starting at centre and working out.
Hood
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I opened the drawing in bobcad, and did a verify.
2 rectangles , the outside one is like 2mm bigger.
the inside one is a pocket.
basically, I am only taking like 2mm pocket in the Geometry, just to prove I can actually make it do anything,
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Ok the issue was that I opened in V26, I just opened now in V25 and I get a pocket with the zig zag cut. However it is starting at the right hand end just as it is in Mach, see screenshot.
Hood
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blah, ok i wil need to consider upgrading. it looks better in 25 for sure.
just the learning stuff i have is with v24 and i am not crazy about change in the middle of it.
thanks a bunch, you a gentleman a and good judge of whiskey.
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Sadly I only have V25 and V26 so cant look at it in V24 that you are using. Can you not select where you want the start point to be? certainly can in V25 and 26.
Hood
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porbably can, but I am not wise in the way of bobCad yet. still learning.
I am sure I will find it. but its not the end of the world, if it doesnt.