Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: sdow on October 28, 2013, 07:22:02 PM

Title: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 28, 2013, 07:22:02 PM
Hi

I have motors and drivers Mitsubishi  ... but i am need a help  ...how i can connect this drivers to mach3 ... can you propose me some controllers non very expensive to tray this ...

Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 29, 2013, 03:14:42 PM
If they accept step/dir (pulse/sign) then you have many options from the parallel port to smoothstepper to CSMIO, Galil, Kflop etc etc.
If they only accept Analogue input (+/- 10v) then there are a few controllers such as CSMIO/IP-A, DSPMC, Kflop/Kanalog

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 29, 2013, 05:21:59 PM
My drivers is MR-J2S-60A    .... i think hi can do step/dir   

https://my.mitsubishi-automation.com/downloads/view/doc_loc/1375/138918.pdf?id=1375&saveAs=0&form_submit=View+now

if you can see page 24     hi can do with parameter 0011   ....   i never set this parameters  ... can you help me    ... or if you have a filet set it directly by PC   will be  good ..

Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 30, 2013, 02:14:23 PM
sorry I dont have the software :(
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 30, 2013, 02:19:24 PM
Hi

can you confirme me if J2S-60A   can do step/dir     

thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 30, 2013, 02:23:56 PM
Yes, as you pointed out page 3-24 shows the parameter to set for it.

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 30, 2013, 02:33:51 PM
and if i go with CSMIO   ... witch one i can choose ... he have many models    ... the CNC have 2 motors for axis X  (one each side of CNC)    1 motor for axiz X and 1 for axis Z   .

Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 30, 2013, 03:07:33 PM
The IP-M or IP-S would work for you. The IP-M however is limited to 125KHz pulse so you may possibly have to use electronic gearing in the drive, that will depend on the steps per unit and velocity you had. The IP-S can pulse to 4MHz, so no electronic gearing would be required.

There are other controllers such as the Ethernet SmoothStepper (ESS) that can pulse to 4MHz as well but the ESS is only 5v I/O and also just single ended Step/Dir signals. You could possibly use single ended signals with your drives but they may be unreliable unless you are very particular about shielding. You ideally also want a breakout board if using the ESS, the CSMIO controllers dont require breakout boards.

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 30, 2013, 10:09:11 PM
Hi

If CSMIO can output 24V   on step/dir    i think that J2S-A is 24V .

Thinks 
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2013, 03:59:26 AM
CSMIO/IP-M and IP-S  output 5v differential signals.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 10:00:40 AM
how i can   connect CSMIO   to my J2S-A drivers   ? If output is 5V  and i need 24V  .
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Ya-Nvr-No on October 31, 2013, 11:49:32 AM
Better do some more reading I believe that the 24volts is only to bring the servo online and 5 volt is used for S&D. +-10 if using analog 
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2013, 11:51:54 AM
Yes it would be highly unusual for Step/Dir inputs to be 24v, I have seen that on some drives, Baldor I think, but I would say with almost certainty yours will be 5v.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 01:03:38 PM
HI

I have one other question the  IP-M   not work on Step/Dir it  work with +-10V    and he have feedback   .... If the feedback is used for follow the mouvement CNC   ... IP-M  is it best then IP-S.

If i chose the IP-M   what  pins of driver i need to connect on IP-M...   (in +-10V i can probably use the mode speed) .

I think that is my last question     .



Many Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2013, 02:20:18 PM
The IP-M and IP-S are both Step/Dir, the IP-A is analogue. Of the 3 my choice would be the IP-A but it is more expensive than the IP-M and slightly more than the IP-S.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 02:35:36 PM
Which pins i need to use on my J2S-A   for  IP-A
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2013, 04:31:59 PM
You would use the analogue input (+/- 10v) and also use the encoder outputs to pass on to the IP-A so that it knows the position.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 04:52:11 PM
Before making my purchase how I can test manually or with a very small electric scheme to turn my engine  for both options Step / dir and analog .... just to make sure that both options works work ...

A final issue which auto-check tools you propose me to buy ...   i see this but is very poor     http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Router-MACH3-Engraving-Machine-Tools-Auto-Check-Instrument-/321113660003
   ... do you know best tools ...

Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2013, 05:14:00 PM
You can easily check the speed control by applying a voltage to the corresponding terminals. You can make up a battery box which basically consists of a 9v battery and a potentiometer. The potentiometer allows you to vary the voltage from 0v to 9v and thus you can test things out.
 Step/Dir is not so easy, you would have to get a way of supplying a pulse to the Step input on the drive, you could possibly connect up to a parallel port  and use Mach to generate the pulses.

Regarding the tool setter, I have never used one so cant advise I am afraid.

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 05:17:54 PM
i can use function generator tools  to do pulses
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 05:20:20 PM
i think that tool setter is good gadget when you change tools manual   .
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on October 31, 2013, 06:08:48 PM
This Topic is not open just for Me and Hood ....other people can answer  for tools tool setter ;)
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 01, 2013, 09:45:43 PM
Hi hood

I have one question for you My drivers  use 1 phase 230V  but is not connected to Magnetic contactor   is  it normal     ? Can hi work with no Magnetic contactor ?

Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 02, 2013, 06:25:33 AM
You can connect direct to the mains usually however it is often a good idea to have a contactor to disconnect them but for testing purposes mains should be fine.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 04, 2013, 03:55:57 PM
Hello Hood

I will go probably with IP-A   ... i need a help   ... how i connect the encoder with to CSMIO ...   In CSMIO have  encoder Z  +  and -  ....?

Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 04:15:57 PM
Most servo drives have an output that passes the encoder signals out of the drive to the controller. Some have to be via emulated outputs, if for example your encoder is a sine/cosine encoder then directly outputting the encoder signal would be no use, so the drive will emulate encoder pulses.
I am not sure what your drives have but I would imagine they would have such signal outputs.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 04:20:24 PM
Ok just had a quick look at the manual and there are line driver outputs for Z, A and B.
See pic below.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 04, 2013, 04:33:59 PM
if you look the page 9      +Z go to -> pulse Z (J2s)  and  - Z go to -> diff.  Z (J2S)  ?

is it right ?
and page 9   http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/upload/pdf/Conectors%20CSMIO-IP-A.pdf
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 04:42:29 PM
see attached pic of how you would connect X axis signals.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 04, 2013, 04:47:23 PM
if me encoder give 24V   what i can do to connect it  to CSMIO
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 04:50:00 PM
Why do you think it gives out 24v?
It says line driver output and normally that will mean it is 5v. Does it say in the manual that it is 24v?
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 04, 2013, 04:56:41 PM
Because  many inputs is 24v or 10v?
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 05:17:37 PM
yes but the I/O for things like enables etc will be 24v but encoder inputs and outputs will almost certainly be 5v.

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 04, 2013, 05:55:50 PM
for  a CNC 3 axis  what you prefer IP-A or IP-S  and why ?   I do not which choose ?
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 06:06:46 PM
I have both but the IP-A is preferable to me. Reasons are encoders are fed back to Mach so DROs are updated from encoder position. I switch on, home machine then as long as I keep the logic side of the servo drives powered the DROs in Mach always reflect the axis position.
For example I can disable the servo drives and manually move the axis and the DROs in Mach show the movement.
I can hit a limit switch and the DROs still show the correct position even if the axis moves a bit with inertia.
I can hit the E-Stop and again Mach knows where it is.

With the IP-S or any other controller that does not feed encoders back to Mach then you would need to rehome each time after doing one of the above.

Also you should be aware if disabling a servo or for that matter a stepper you need to re-home when you re-enable it as it has likely moved slightly due to forces such as gravity or belt tension, with the IP-A there is no need for that as it knows exactly how much it moved as the encoders are being monitored.

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 04, 2013, 06:34:26 PM
HI Hood


Can i ask you one other question can you make me one picture  how connect the output  +-10V (  CSMIO ) to driver .

Tomorrow i test all and buy my CSMIO .

Thinks
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 06:54:41 PM
VC and LG are the terminals you use on the drive.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 05, 2013, 06:21:06 PM
Hi Hood

When i connect  my drive and motor to 230V  my motor not have  any power  is very easy to turn it by my hand ... When i turn it  by my hand i can  see the info . of encoders . Is it normal .

Now can i do this ...
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 05, 2013, 06:34:15 PM
LG is it = to GND
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 05, 2013, 06:54:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwyZgTnSCdw
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 05, 2013, 11:44:51 PM
Hi Hood

When i put directly 3v to VC  ... my motor not run ? 
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 06, 2013, 02:56:14 AM
Do you have pins 15, 16 and 17 connected to pin 10?
Have you set the parameters in the drive for Speed mode?

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 08:44:29 AM
yes i connect 15  16 17 to 10   ...but not set the parameters  i can not find this   ?  But, when i connect pin 5 to 10 ...i have torque ?
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
i put the parameter no.43 -> 0111   no.44 -> 0222 no.45-> 0665 no.46->0770 no.47->0883 no.48-> 0994

battery:  + to VC and - to LG
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 06, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
Do you have the software for the drive? I think that would make it easier to understand and set parameters. I had a quick look and the ones you mentioned above are the default settings so likely they will need changed to suit whichever mode you are in (Speed, Torque, Position)

Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 04:55:17 PM
yes
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 06, 2013, 04:58:03 PM
So have you connected the drives up to the software/
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 05:00:41 PM
i use the page  :  3-6   and  5-2 to 5-3
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 05:01:51 PM
yes i can run the motor with software in Test -> JOG
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 05:04:55 PM
if you look in parameter n0.43 to 48    i set it in default .
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 06, 2013, 05:07:04 PM
Pg 5-2 etc would seem to be default parameters, you will need to set them to suit the mode you are in.

Ok I have never seen the Mitsubishi software but most drives software allows you to set the modes etc through a graphical interface instead of having to use the parameters, is the mitsubishi software like that?
For example I have attached a screenshot of Giddings and Lewis software.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 05:24:50 PM
yes is work  one bit have error   parameter  no.0
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 05:27:16 PM
in drawing of encoder put differential output to GND analog  is it  ok        ?   differential output is = to gnd ?
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 06, 2013, 05:31:45 PM
Sorry I dont know what you mean.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 06, 2013, 06:52:35 PM
how i can measure the outputs of encoders
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 07, 2013, 02:11:57 AM
You really need an oscilloscope to see the encoders.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 07, 2013, 09:12:34 AM
i ask  a Mitsubishi for voltage of encoders   : 5 to 24VDC based upon device it is connected to.  Maximum current 35ma.   
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 07, 2013, 09:14:40 AM
hi hood

my drivers when i apply 0v  he continue to run  with   1r/min  
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 07, 2013, 10:51:18 AM
i find the error for 1 r/min   ... i measure  the outputs of encoders is 5V   ...you are the king .

Thinks 
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 08, 2013, 08:38:26 AM
With analogue controls their will always be some kind of voltage being seen by the amplifier/drive and thus you will have some kind of movement. There will be a setting in your drive to offset things so that Zero is Zero, however that can be problematic and really its not required as once connected to the controller it will offset things for you and make sure the axis is stationary when it is meant to be.
Hood
Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: sdow on November 08, 2013, 06:10:05 PM
what is the name of plastic for cables






Title: Re: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Hood on November 08, 2013, 06:13:56 PM
Cable trunking is the normal name but can be all sorts, slotted trunking etc
Here is a link to some in the UK
http://www.chaloncomponents.co.uk/shop/category_1m%2520Trunking/1-Metre-Length-Trunking.html?sessid=bzv6zXvASnnCO2rkghoefWjB4fOgSlBgN7Eh63LUgQM1rwKEEdAPDQ4rmrTrK3NK&shop_param=cid%3D%26

Hood
Title: MR-J2S-A and Mach 3
Post by: Bodini on November 08, 2013, 06:48:36 PM
what is the name of plastic for cables

Wire duct.