Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => CS-Lab => Topic started by: jamied on October 15, 2013, 03:46:50 PM
-
just setting up mu ports and pins settings for my VFD have configured the spindle CW to output 4 and CCW to output 5 and set the pins in the output signals to (output 4 port 10 pin 12) and (output 5 to port 10 pin 13 ) both enabled , but its not switching on the relay on the CSMIO ?? if i set the CW or CCW spindle settings to either 1,2,or 3 outputs they all energies but not 4 or 5 ?? what am i doing wrong ?
-
fixed ! was setting the output pins wrong !! its getting late
-
I am having the same problem!
Can you please send screen captures of your Mach 3 and CSMIO configuration screens?
Cheers
Max
-
Hi Guys
I can not get Output 4 changing state on or off, selecting the Spindle CW F5 button or using the M3 and M5 command, but I can put it on and off via the CSMIO Motion control Configuration changes
Can you please assist?
This is my set up->
Output 4 (No 1 relay) so Channel 10 Pin 12
In the Motor output Tab I have set the spindle Step Pin to 12 and the Step Port to 10
In the Output Signal Tab I have Enable ticked, Port set to 10, Pin number set to 12
In the Spindle setup Tab, Relay control, I selected Clockwise(M3) Output# to 4
CCW Output# to 4
In the motor control selected Use spindle motor control and Step/Dir Motor
In the CSMIO Motion control Configuration, Misc IO I have Output Nr selected to Output 4
When I selecting the Spindle CW F5 button, on the Mach3 Diagnostic screen output 4 comes on, but it is a slow flashing red, but Output 4 (No 1 relay) says low(off)
Where am I going wrong?
Cheers
MXJ
-
Hi MXJ. What controller are you running. Also what type of drive are you trying to control.
If it is a Version 2 CSMIO/IP-S pin 12 is output number 14.
Let me know any details you can and I will try to help
Alan
-
Hi Alan
I am using a CSMIO/IP-M 4-axis Ethernet Motion Controller (step/dir) with version 2.1
Regards
Max
-
Hi MXJ,
Can you please post a picture of the Spindle tab for the CSMIO plug in screen.
Alan
-
Hi Alan
Here is the spindle page.
Cheers
Max
-
Hi Max,
From the plug in screen. Not the mach screen
Alan
-
Hi Alan
Here is the spindle page
Cheers
Max
-
Please attach your xml,
Hood
-
Hi Max,
On this last screen. The plugin spindle screen. I would untick the enabled box in the Spindle DAC section. I believe this to be only for 0-10v dc analogue.
Then goto the MDI screen in mach and type M3S100 and see if the relay switches.
Alan
-
Hi Hood, was seeing how long it was before you came to the rescue.
The mach spindle setup and output signals tabs look ok to me when I compare them to my setup.
Alan
-
Hi Hood
PM send to you
Thanks Alan
I will go and give it a go now. Will I still get the analogue signal to control the Super PID2?
Cheers
Max
-
Hi Max,
In mach it should be 4 not 12. In the output signals screen it should be port 10 which is correct. But the PIN number should be 4.
And your wire connects to pin 12 on the output header
Alan
-
Hi Alan
I have un ticked the enabled box in the Spindle DAC section, but still Output4 does not change state
On the Mach 3 Diagnostics screen, when I inter M4, Output 4 lights up red, and it is slow flashing. Is it suppose to be flashing or is it supposed to be constant red?
Regards
Max
-
If you're using a Super PID, then you need to use two pins to control it.
You can use Output 4 to turn the spindle on and off, but you also need to use another output pin for the PWM signal which tells the SuperPID the rpm. This second output pin is what you need to enter for the spindle step pin.
On the Spindle tab, you also should be using PWM, and NOT step/dir
-
Actually, you might be better off using the analog 0-10V rather than the PWM signal, but you'll need some resistors to convert the 0-10V to the 0-5V that the Super PID requires.
-
CORRECTION
On the Mach 3 Diagnostics screen, when I enter 'M3', Output 4 lights up red, and it is slow flashing. Is it suppose to be flashing or is it supposed to be constant red?
-
Hi Gerry
I am using the analog 0-10V signal and turning it into a 0-5V signal via resistors
Cheers
Max
-
On the Spindle Tab, "Use Spindle Motor Output" under Motor Control should not be checked, according to page 43 of the manual.
-
If you hooked up the relays as you depicted in the first page, the problem likely stems from the wiring more so than the configuration. You need to fix the wiring first or you'll be spinning your wheels. For that matter, it's entirely possible that you have damaged the controller if you've hooked it up the way you have shown. Putting a 5 volt power supply positive to the common of the outputs is essentially sending 5 volts backwards through the outputs system, where the CSMIO outputs are meant to operate at 24 volts and that pin is essentially the "ground" (though ground is not a good term for a common as they are technically different). Here's a correction to the diagram:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3839/14582393707_8c60cd4b88_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/odAzBa)RelayCorrections (https://flic.kr/p/odAzBa) by mmoe5150 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
The problem is several things. First, CSMIO outputs should be used to turn relays on and off using a 24volt DC power supply (same one providing 24 volts to the controller itself is fine). At the CSMIO controller, you need to supply 24VDC to a specific pin that will provide power for the outputs. The outputs then forwards the 24VDC signal to the relay when it is turned on. The relay is activated by running 24 volts DC through the coil (you must have a 24 VDC coil relay, so not all relays are the same!). The coil is also connected to the CSMIO at the outputs "common" to complete the coil circuit. The switch portion of the relay is used to forward voltage to a load, or in the case of an "enable/disable" loop, you are forwarding a voltage as a signal. Regardless of what the load or signal is, the coil is all that is run by CSMIO. If you need 5 volts to enable/disable your Gecko drive, you must have a separate power supply that runs 5 volts to the relay switch, which will then be forwarded to the drive from the relay when the CSMIO activates the relay's coil. This 5 volts does not ever get run through the CSMIO, it is run through the relay. Similarly, you can send 110 VAC, 220 VAC, 24 VDC, 10 VDC, 5VDC or whatever else you might need through the relay switch, which is turned on and off by the CSMIO output. The only limitation then is that the relay is going to be rated for somewhere around 5amp to 12 amps, depending on the relay.
Re-read the manual regarding how to properly configure an output from the controller. Hope that helps, and feel free to ask if you don't understand.
-
Here's a quick diagram I did a while back that shows the function and connections of a typical relay. This is a mechanical relay, but a solid state relay would operate on the same principals, just accomplishing the task a little different internally. Again, your goal is to operate the coil of the relay with the CSMIO outputs, then let the relay provide the connections from there.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3704/11335128785_9a53e59864_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/igDuSV)Relay (https://flic.kr/p/igDuSV) by mmoe5150 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
-
Been in the shop for the afternoon, but managed to put together a diagram of how I think the wiring should look. A few qualifiers first; it's been a while since I've installed an IP-M or really even looked at one closely. That said, I have worked with all three CSMIO controllers, so they are relatively familiar to me (IP-A, IP-S and IP-M, as well as the I/O modules). I don't know much about your specific Gecko drives but have dealt with a couple of their products as well, so you'll have to adjust based on your model. I also don't know much about the spindle controller you are using, so you'll need to figure out what voltage the spindle enable signal needs to be. The only thing I have not shown is the Analog connections, but those are really quite straight forward once you have this part done.
On the Gecko drives, they have two different configurations (I believe). One is that you short the disable pin to one of the resistor pins (the last pin on the drive IIRC). The other is that you simply supply 5 volts to the disable pin, but in that case I believe that the common for the 5 volt signal is shared with the step/dir common back to the controller. The former is much easier to deal with than the latter. If you have the latter kind, I'd be very careful about how you supply 5 volts since you will need to share the common pin between what are essentially two different power supplies. I think this can be done, but I would not call it ideal. I think it was meant more for connecting to controllers that work on a 5v power supply, not a 24 volt power supply, which would make it easier to use an output to disable/enable the drive directly. I'm not sure if Outputs 4 and 5 share the same basic common internally as the Step/Dir system, so it's hard to say if you can simply use a resistor to drop the voltage and connect an output directly to the Geckos, but if this is possible, it may be the better method than using a relay. I would contact CS Labs regarding this specific situation if that's what you face. If you have the other version where you just short the disable pin to the resistor pin, you don't even need a power supply. In that case, you just eliminate the 5 volt power supply from my diagram and when the switch closes, the pins short at the drive. In other words, the resistor terminal on the gecko can be though of as the common, and it would connect to the relay where the power supply 5 volt is depicted connecting currently. The 5 volt line from the relay to the drive would not have 5 volts, and would simply connect the relay to the disable pin. Hope that makes sense as it's difficult to cover all scenarios in a single diagram and you'll have to visualize the differences.
For the sake of making the diagram clear (due to how it laid out), I made Output 4 operate the stepper enable relay and Output 5 operate the spindle relay. You could simply switch the connections at the CSMIO terminal block to change this, or configure the outputs differently in Mach 3 "ports and pins" settings. I additionally am not implying anything specific about the drives or the spindle controller, so you'll have to fill in the blanks. You could do the same as below using the outputs 0, 1, 2, or 3 as well, but for those outputs you would have to jump 24 volts from the controller power supply to pin 9 on the terminal block and the same power supply 0 volts (common) to pin 22. Once you have power to those outputs, I don't see any reason why they could not also be used for relays in this same manner.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14585150497_32b182d82b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/odQH72)CSMIO IP-M Relay Diagram (https://flic.kr/p/odQH72) by mmoe5150 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
-
Guys
Thank you very much for all the relies, I will work through them
Regards
Max
-
CSMIO/IP-M and VFD
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/index.php?m=article&show&aid=132&uinfo=CSMIOIPM__VFD
BR
CS-Lab Team
-
CSMIO/IP-M and VFD
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/index.php?m=article&show&aid=132&uinfo=CSMIOIPM__VFD
BR
CS-Lab Team
In the link above, I believe you need to look at your wiring diagram and make a correction. Everything in the write-up is excellent, but I believe the diagram for wiring the relay is incorrect. From the write up:
If we at this moment enter the "M3" into the MDI line and we press ENTER the no. 1 relay will close the electrical circuit between the screw terminals no. 12 and 25. On the other hand in the „PlugIn Control\CSMIO_IP plugin\Digital IO” tab and „Diganostics (Alt-7)” tab we will notice active diodes of „Output 1” (Mach3 virtual output) and „Digital outputs no.4” (digital output that controls the relay no. 1).
However, if you send a signal on no 12 to the relay as you show it, it will do nothing and remain open because a relay is operated by the coil, not the contacts at the switch side of the relay. The coil in your diagram is connected to nothing, so the relay will do nothing. Please review and compare to the diagram I supplied above showing how to connect the coils of the relays to the controller, rather than the switch outputs of the relays, which should be used to turn the intended hardware on or off using either the normally open and/or normally closed terminals of the relay. If the coil does not become active, the state of the relay (NC/NO) does not change.
-
Dear mmoe,
Remember that CSMIO/IP-M has got two relays inside and their coils are controlled by digital outputs no. 4 and 5.
Your opinion would be true if we were talking about CSMIO/IP-S or CSMIO/IP-A. Tomorrow we will place a basic scheme that should make it all clear
Nevertheless, we really appreciate all your opinions, we read them carefully and analyze. Thanks :)
CS-Lab
-
Output 4 is working properly!
Thank you all, and especially the team at CS labs
Cheers
Max
-
No problem :)
On a point of clarification - the new scheme was added:
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/artykul-133-CSMIOIPM__VFD_Page_2.html#IPMandVFD
CS-Lab Team