Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jamied on October 06, 2013, 02:03:25 PM
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in using Omron R7M drives to convert my Hurco and need to connect the encoders , the encoders on the HURCO motors are 6 pairs plus 0v and 5v , but there are feedback encoders fitted to the ball screws on each axis that have A+,A-,B+,B-,GZ+ and GZ- so im thinking of using these connected to my servo drives , the drives have the A,B and a Z connections but also have a S+ and S- ? do these need to be used ? if so what are they for ? appreciate any advice
Jamie
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You will need to use motors/encoders that are suitable for the drives you have, I think the Omrons will be AC Servo drives.
Are the motors you have AC or DC Servos? Sounds like they are DC Servos due to the lack of commutation signals
Hood
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the motors on the machine are AC servo motors , , three phase 200v , but the original encoders have PA, PA+,PB,PB+,PC,PC+,PU,PU+,PV,PV+,PW,PW+ as well as the 5V and 0V ( plus the separate 3 phase power supply to the motor) so I thought I might be able to use the feedback encoders and retain the original motor from the machine?
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Ok so the PU, PV and PW are the commutation signals for the motors.
I am not sure what the Omrons require as some modern AC Servo drives do not need commutation signals. Do you have a link to the manual for the drives you have?
Hood
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I have attached the manual Hood , if you can have a look and see if its going to work otherwise i need to find new drives or motors? just would be handy if I can use what I have , I went with the CSMIO control after your advice , nice piece of kit (only thing is I bought the step/dir one as I had these drive so its a shame if they wont work ) oh well :)
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Ok on pg 55 it shows the CN2 connections and there is no mention of commutation, so it looks like these drives sense the commutation themselves and dont need feedback from the encoder.
I am not sure if they will work or not with your current motors but likely they will as long as the signal types are the same. The manual seems to suggest that it is ttl signals and that is likely what your motors encoders are.
Are the motors voltages and currents within the specs of the Omron drives?
Hood
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Also better make it clear that matching AC drives and motors is not nearly as easy as matching DC brushless motors and drives.
AC Drives usually require you to have all the info entered for the motor, such as voltage, current, inertia etc. Some drives will not allow you to enter that except for standard motors that match the drives, others allow you to set up a custom motor profile and the newest ones tend to use "smart" encoders that have that info in the encoder.
Hood
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Yes the motors are 200v 3phase 750w motors , I'm thinking of using the feedback encoders off the ball screws as they have A+ ,A-, B+B-,,GZ+GZ- and if you look at CN1 there's a pair of Zphase connections , am I wrong I'm thinking that's my GZ phase ?
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Oh so it may not be so simple !
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These signals on CN1 will be outputs, ie for passing on the index signal to other hardware, possibly for use in Index homing.
Hood
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One other thing to consider when thinking of using remote encoders (ie not on motor) is if you have any backlash at all it can make the tuning of the motor very difficult and will likely lead to instability.
Hood
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Yes true so my best options would either be to find new servo drives that will work the motors I have or change the motors for ones that will either work with these drives or different motors and drives all together ?
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It is often easiest to have drives and motors that match.
The Allen Bradley drives I have used on a few machines can be set up for custom motors (as long as you know the motors specs ) For example I have attached a pic showing most of the info required.
Lots of AC drives however are not so easy to match up with different motors and you have to really go with the motors that were meant to be paired with the drives.
Were the original drives dead?
Hood
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Yes the originals are dead , so I need motors to match these drives or motor and drives that are paired ? Shame these motors I have are fine
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Or drives that can be set up for custom motors.
Hood
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Yea true what about the FD432-LA series that zapp automation advertise
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I am not sure, you would be best to either ask Zapp or maybe if you download the software you could see if there is a place to configure custom motor parameters.
Hood
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Ok Hood appreciate your advice on this . Nothing's ever straight forward :) will see if I can get some information on them
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Hi Hood , just want to pick your brains again:) i have contacted Omron (very helpful guy) and software is available to set up there drives, so it may be possible to set the drives I have to the motors I have ?? whats your opinion (hardest thing may be getting hold of the datasheets for the Yasakawa motors to get the required information ?)
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Do you have the software? If so have a look and see if it is possible to set custom motors.
Also if you post the models of the motors I may have info on them, I keep a lot of that kind of stuff :)
Hood
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I dont have the software as yet but its not expensive , have attached the manual for the software ( may not be the most up to date version) , the motors are Yasakawa USAFED-09FB1S , thanks again Hood
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Ok I have some info on the motors, see screenshot.
The manual is 10Meg so not sure if it will attach here so if you PM me your email address I will email it to you.
I will hopefully get a chance to look at the software manual later on.
Hood