Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jve on June 21, 2013, 12:19:19 PM

Title: csmio
Post by: jve on June 21, 2013, 12:19:19 PM
hi guys
i been using csmio ips for a few machines now but these machines i never needed the analog out put before and this time i am making a retrofit on a big lathe my problem is that i enabled the analog output from the plugin and i setup the spindle pulley there is no output voltage there even when i go to check on the plugin the bar for the analog output 0 it remains 0 so there is no output to the spindle drive
do i am missing something?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2013, 01:36:56 PM
There are a few things you need to set to get the analogue out working. If you attach your xml I will have a look through it to see if there is anything you have missed.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 21, 2013, 01:50:26 PM
as of now i am at home so i dont have the xml file but may i ask you what do i have to set to get the analog out put working
do you have a xml file with analog out put for a spindle ?

Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2013, 02:02:17 PM
Up until a few weeks ago I was using the analogue out from the IP-S to control the spindle on the small lathe, I have since changed it over to Step/Dir spindle. The only reason I changed was my servo drives need +/- 10v control so I had to make up a relay board to invert the signals for direction change, with Step/Dir I dont need that. The analogue signal however worked very well and was very accurate.

The CSMIO/IP-S manual details the steps you need to take to get the spindle working via the analogue outs, you may also have to choose the setting as shown in the pic below, I have circled in red.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 21, 2013, 02:10:45 PM
i will check that tomorrow but i have same drive with +/- 10v so i have to make a relay to invert the signal too
can i work with the step&dir intead of analog and keep same drive?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2013, 02:13:49 PM
If your servo drive accepts step/dir signals then yes you can use it and I would say it is a better option for you to do so.
If your drive only accepts analogue signals then you will have to use that.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 21, 2013, 02:18:16 PM
no it is not the case cause my drive do not accept step&dir as far as i know the drive is a BBC brown boveri
by the way thanks for your reply i will have an other go tomorrow
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 22, 2013, 02:26:06 PM
dear hood
I manage to make the analog working as you said it was to enable the spindle motor control and pwm as shown in the pic but I still have a long way to go first I notice that the analog output on the csmio is not isolated so the drive is not working properly cause it is getting the reference from the common I don't know if there is any kind of board to isolate the analog from the csmio and send to drive
the drive works fine if I use a battery and it change the direction when I invert the +/-

I also have the turret issue which is a barufaldi 7 position and it works as follow
T1 INPUT 17
T2 INPUT     18
T3 INPUT 17 18
T4 INPUT          19
T5 INPUT 17     19
T6 INPUT      18 19
T7 INPUT 17 18 19
OUTPUT 7 to turn turret
OUTPUT 8 to lock turret
I will try to have a search maybe I find a macro ready
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 22, 2013, 02:59:19 PM
I think the issue is because the analogue out is meant for VFDs where you will have a Fwd and reverse signal as well.
I am trying to recall how I did it, I think I had a relay set to clamp the drives Fwd and Rev inputs when I wanted to turn the spindle on.
I will have a look tomorrow or Monday and see if I can remember.

Regarding your turret, are there more inputs such as lock/unlock, preselect? etc or is that all there is? Does the turret only rotate one way or is it bi-directional?
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 23, 2013, 12:15:12 PM
i think i manage to make a macro for the turret it seems it is working at home i will try it on the machine tomorrow
now the big issue  is the spindle i have to find a way to make it working also i have the spindle with the encoder so i have to see how to connect that to the spindle csmio extention

Sub Main()

NewTool = GetSelectedTool()
OldTool = GetCurrentTool()
MaxToolNum = 7 'Max number of tools for the changer

While NewTool > MaxToolNum
NewTool = Question ("Enter New Tool Number up to " & MaxToolNum)
Wend

If NewTool = OldTool Or NewTool = 0 Then
Exit Sub
End If

If OldTool <> NewTool Then
While Slot <> NewTool
ActivateSignal(OUTPUT3) 'start rotating forward
If IsActive(INPUT3) And Not IsActive(INPUT2) And Not IsActive (INPUT1) Then
Slot = 1
End If
If Not IsActive(INPUT3) And IsActive(INPUT2) And Not IsActive (INPUT1) Then
Slot = 2
End If
If IsActive(INPUT3) And IsActive(INPUT2) And Not IsActive (INPUT1) Then
Slot = 3
End If
If Not IsActive(INPUT3) And Not IsActive(INPUT2) And IsActive(INPUT1) Then
Slot = 4
End If
If IsActive(INPUT3) And Not IsActive(INPUT2) And IsActive(INPUT1) Then
Slot = 5
End If
If Not IsActive(INPUT3) And IsActive(INPUT2) And IsActive(INPUT1) Then
Slot = 6
End If
If IsActive(INPUT3) And IsActive(INPUT2) And IsActive (INPUT1) Then
Slot = 7
End If
Wend
Sleep(100)
DeActivateSignal(OUTPUT3) 'stop rotating forward, rotate backward now
Sleep (100)
ActivateSignal(OUTPUT4)
Sleep (3000)
DeActivateSignal(OUTPUT4)
End If

SetOEMDRO(824,NewTool)
Code "G4 P2" 'A pause time of 2 seconds to give your reverse turret time to seat
While IsMoving
Wend

End Sub
Main 
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 23, 2013, 03:03:12 PM
Does your servo drive have inputs such as Forward Clamp/Reverse Clamp?
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 27, 2013, 02:10:08 AM
I managed resolve the spindle I installed a analog to analog isolated card and now the spindle is changing direction and very smooth now I need to install the encoder on the CSMIO ENC I have a 2500p/r would this be ok for the ENC?
the turret now it is indexing but I still need to fine tune the script so the only thing left is the encoder on the spindle and I will do some test
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 27, 2013, 02:57:47 AM
Sorry I forgot to look to see how I had done it :( But as you have it working now thats all that matters :)

Yes that encoder should be fine, that will be 10,000 counts per rev.

Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 27, 2013, 10:49:02 AM
I got it working the CSMIO ENC I change my mind and I made a encoder 200pulses that comes 800 pulses per revolution it seems it is working excellent even the dro (true spindle) it is exectly as the speed command value now I notice that I have a problem on the coolant pump and I will shortly test the machine
about the softlimits are they working on the mach3 turn?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 27, 2013, 01:44:48 PM
Yes softlimits work exceptionally well with the CSMIO :)
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 28, 2013, 07:38:52 AM
I notice that when I input code t606m6 the work coordinates come ok but when I input code t616m6 the work coordinates come the same as t606m6 then if I input again t616m6 the work coordinates change the value as it should be so I have to input t616m6 2 times is there any setting that im missing?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 28, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
If you are using 066 or 067 version of Mach that could be the issue as there were problems I reported regarding tool offsets and tool numbers with one or both of these versions.
If its not one of these versions then attach your xml.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 28, 2013, 10:38:39 AM
yes it is 66 what is the best one?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Chaoticone on June 28, 2013, 12:30:35 PM
May want to wait for Hood to confirm or deny but I think he likes the 3.043.057 flavor.  You can find it and others at this link. ftp://machsupport.com/Mach/ (ftp://machsupport.com/Mach/)

Brett
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 28, 2013, 12:47:03 PM
I found  an other problem I tried a program in the air (without stock) and when it came for treading it went to reset but I am using the G76 as a treading cycle does it work with the csmio ?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 28, 2013, 01:49:19 PM
I use 057 as Brett said but some people have issues wth the toolpath view in it so maybe 062.
Regarding your threading issue, you need to go into the plugin and invert the encoder.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 01:37:54 AM
ok hood it worked when I invert the encoder but I still have an other problem with the treading as of now I am making a tread internal and when it makes the first cut it pull out with a feed of 1.5mm it should not work like that it should pull out with rapid movement and it keep repeating 2nd ,3rd ecc
I am doing the tread by the G76
G76 X-54 Z-22 Q0 P1.5 J0.2 L0 H0.2 I30 C1 T0
this program it use to work with mach3 and with the parallel port it is something with the csmio I think is there any setting that I am missing ?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 04:41:09 AM
The CSMIO has a delay in the pull out at the end of the thread. It is a Mach issue in the way it updates the plugin, Brian is hopefully working on it, I think he is waiting on info from CS-Lab to see what calls they would require.

Is that what you are meaning? The actual move back to the start of the thread should be a rapid move.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 05:06:44 AM
I notice also that on each pass of the tread the spindle slow down does this happen to you also ?
so it should be an update of mach3
do you know anything with mach4 and csmio if they going to work with each other?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 05:23:05 AM
Spindle should not slow down other than if the cutting force causes it to. Are you saying that the spindle is slowing down just due to the motion?
Try running the thread with just air cutting and see if it slows down, if it does there is an issue somewhere with your setup. Are you still using 067?

Regarding Mach4, CSMIO are or will be working on a plugin, they have the initial info for helping them as Brian passed that to them a month or so ago.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 05:30:44 AM
now I am running on 057 and the tread is cutting in air and I don't believe that the spindle will slow down by force with a 24kw spindle motor
I think I did not explain my self good on the above when it makes the first pass and it is going to pull out from the tread it is taking a while like 50sec this means that it is with a feed rate of 1.5mm and not with rapid
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 05:36:03 AM
Ok so the slow pullout you are meaning is the motion from end of thread pass for it to move back to the beginning of the start for the next pass?
That is not normal if that is what you are meaning.
You can see what it should be like if you have a look at this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKp343Ubf7U

In that video I am altering the spindle override to show the  thread tracks well even with big fluctuations in spindle speed.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 06:11:36 AM
first of all it is not working like the vid and the problem is the machine is making the first pass then it has to pull out from the tread and it is taking very long with a feed rate of 1.5mm and after that it goes out to make the second tread with rapid and it makes the second tread and again it is making same thing goes slow out of the tread and the it goes with rapid to continue the tread and it keep doing this all the tread passes also on every start of a tread the spindle slows down
I do not know what im doing wrong
can I ask you which firmware are you using on the csmio?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 06:31:23 AM
I made a copy of machine vb,xml may be you can help be a bit more  :)
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 06:40:45 AM
Will have a look at your xml in a while.
Regarding the version of plugin in that video, it is likely 1.9 or thereabouts.  I am not sure if I have tested properly with the recent 2.xx versions of the plugin as I have test versions of Mach on that machine as I have been using it to do tests fro Brian regarding threading. I will however if I get a chance this afternoon load a version of Mach that is standard and run a thread test and see what it is like and get back to you.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 06:48:11 AM
I assume you are using the analogue outputs to control the spindle ? If yes then you do not have the modbus section enabled, see pic below. You should have that enabled and the values should be 64 and 4095 as per my earlier screenshot.
Let me know  if that helps.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 07:00:01 AM
I made that enabled but it keep making same think no luck !!!
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 07:04:06 AM
I post the code may be I have something missing here
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 02:11:03 PM
I loaded a standard version of Mach on the wee lathe and did a thread test and it ran just as per the video and that was with version 2.020 of the plugin.
 Cant think what could be the issue with it taking 50 seconds to pull off the thread.
Does your spindle true DRO read correctly?
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 29, 2013, 05:07:13 PM
yes spindle true and rpm are ok but my plugin is the latest v2,30
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2013, 07:47:21 PM
Dont think the latest plugin will make a difference as I think it was only some plasma THC or similar that was altered.
Probably wont be at the workshop tomorrow so if I remember I will load the latest plugin and make sure but dont think it will make any difference.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on June 30, 2013, 12:05:57 PM
what should i do then?
could it be a macro doing this?
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on July 01, 2013, 01:38:23 AM
Try with the settings as the screenshot below.
Hood
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on July 01, 2013, 02:31:54 AM
ok i did have a first improvement now the spindle is not slowing down on evrey pass but i still have the issue that when it makes the pass and the tool is inside then the machine it has to go out on the x axis to clear from the tread and it is going very slow if you have team viewer i can show you exactly what it is doing
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on July 01, 2013, 02:45:48 AM
i also notice that i had set the spindle 800 rpm and now spindle true is 794 when i un tick the closed loop spindle control
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: jve on July 01, 2013, 03:12:07 AM
now i think it is working ok cause i modify the program in the beginning it was on g94  and then i made G95 on top of the G76 and it is working ok now but i think i sill have a issue with the spindle true
Title: Re: csmio
Post by: Hood on July 01, 2013, 06:15:44 AM
You can try with closed loop spindle  and see. What was happening before however was Averaging was screwing things up with the plugin and thus you were not actually seeing what the true spindle speed was.

Hood