Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => PoKeys => Topic started by: OzzieII on June 11, 2013, 03:39:43 PM
-
Why oh why doesn't it just work like the docs say.
I hesitated buying my 56U for a while, thinking I'd just use KeyGrabber and a couple butchered Wingman joystick controllers. But I found Keygrabber very, very flaky recognizing two different units, same model. I read and re-read the Pokeys manuals and sent off for the 56U from Cnc4pc.
Cool little thing, lights up, Goood.
I pulled the joysticks and their potentiometers from the Wingman units expecting to use one for X and Y, the other for Z. I hooked it all up and then went to the Pokeys config in Mach 3. Well it sort of worked. I got the axis Dro's to move, but don't think the tuning thing did anything. I would assume that you should tune each axis separately but I see no way to select one at a time. I finally tried by disabling two and trying to tune the other; doing that 3 times. Well okay, maybe. I couldn't get the Dro's to stop moving. I tried numbers from 0 to 1000 in the dead zone block, no effect. NO EFFECT! The input voltage appears to be jumping all around and so are the Dro's. Maybe noise; but not much is running, computer 4 feet away, monitor. Maybe incoming voltage; no, steady at 3.311 V. Maybe the pots are bad; but all three of them?
I did some reading and I see that the Wingman pots are a sometime problem with the video game folks.
Okay lets move on to something else. I removed the joysticks from the system, totally; I REPEAT, I totally disconnected all the wires from the 56U. I booted up and what! The voltages were still wandering around what should have been the dead zone for the analog inputs of the joysticks! Unbelievable! I put my voltage meter on the posts of the 56U; what the screen was saying was correct. How is that possible?
Next, try a simple pot for an analog input. I hooked up, after some trial and error I got it to control the rapids over-ride. Cool, HOORAY! But it works backwards, that's simple, just check reverse pins, right. Well it does not work! I mean why have it there if it doesn't work. And the numbers are jumping around. I reversed the leads, that works, numbers still jumping too much. I looked at the Pokeys screen outside of Mach and there is an adjustment there input speed I think. Adjudting that calmed the reading. Aaha. It looks like these two screens work together. It sure doesn't say that in the docs.
Now how about a simple encoder to set FRO or slow jog percentage. I hooked the center post to ground and the other two leads to #1 and #2. I went through all the settings I could find on both screens, ,,nothing, well not quite nothing, the numbers on the Pokeys screen/device/encoders raw, do change. But I can't get the thing to change anything on the Mach screen.
When I get over being infuriated with ti, I'll try rewiring the joysticks and tuning with the Pokeys screen.
At this moment I'm sorry I spent eighty couple bucks for the unit, tax, and shipping. That plus quite a few hours down the *********ter.
Why oh why doesn't it work like the docs say?
Ozzie
-
In my previous post I forgot to say that along the way I updated to the latest lockdown Mach 3, and the development version of Pokeys. Neither of those helped.
Ozzie
-
Hi, Ozzie
When such problem arise, it is best to start at the beginning.
Close Mach3 and use PoKeys configuration software to test your joystick. What is the resistance of the pot you are using?
Select pin that you have connected the pot to as analog input and send settings to device. Open Peripherals > Analog inputs and outputs and check the same pin again to make it refresh in real time. Does the bar change continuously with the pot rotation?
Regards,
Matevž
-
Hi Matevz,
Good to hear from you, hope we can make this work.
I'm having one of those medical intestinal procedures today, and since I disconnected the joysticks it will be a day or so until I can get back to you.
I assume you are talking about the pots on the joysticks? I will measure those.
The other pot that I've had some success with is a 100k.
Regards,
Ozzie
-
Hello Matevz,
I worked with Pokeys for a while yesterday and then again just now. I used the Pokeys screen to tune the joysticks the best I could, but it sure would be nice to have a step by step instruction; instructions for dummies :)
Then I went to the Mach 3 config and set those joystick parameters although that is confusing as I'm controlling 3 axis'. when I push config and it says move the sticks to their extremes is that one at a time or what. Again detailed instructions would be nice. My Z axis stick works in reverse and checking the reverse box does nothing!!!!! So, I'll need to reverse the wiring, turn the unit around, or just live with it.
I've read the docs several times and do not see the inter-relationship of the Pokeys screen and the Mach 3 config screen. If I had known that it would have saved 30 points in my blood pressure.
--
Other than the Joysticks I have one pot connected to the "rapids over-ride" Dro and that works as I expect. On boot-up the reading stays where it was when I shut down, that's great. There is a little bouncing in that number but in the case of that Dro it is not critical.
On the analog screen the voltage bounces around and I do not understand that. A potentiometer is a very stable component, why should it put out an unsteady voltage. Is there something I can do to stabilize it?
--
Now ENCODERS. I hooked-up a cheap little 3 pin encoder, center pin to ground, other pins to Pokeys 1 and 2. I went through all the settings I could find on the Pokeys screen, then went to the encoder raw screen and it shows that rotating the encoder works; the numbers change. Then on the Mach 3 Pokeys screen I set encoder to OEM Dro 3, slow jog percentage. Nothing, no response. So, what have I missed?
--
I have not tried any buttons or leds yet but I assume that will be easy.
Thanks,
Ozzie
-
Hi, Ozzie
PoKeys SW is/was main application for setting up the PoKeys device and it also contains quite a lot of functions used for debugging purposes.
Mech3 plugin was developed in such a way that PoKeys software is not needed for setup, but is still usefull for debugging stuff (it is way harder to implement these function in the plugin). So, this is why there is a separate manual for PoKeys (software) and separate for Mach3 plugin. We know that there are many things missing in the manual, but it is hard to describe all of them due to shear amount of them.
Regarding the pots - if you are using long wires between PoKeys and pot and using 100k pots that you mentioned, the wires pick up noise from the environment, which effects the measurements. Many times, analog inputs filtering if not solves, but at least greatly improves the situation. Open PoKeys SW and go to analog inputs and outputs, then slide the filter slider a few pixels to the right and check if it is any better.
Encoders - some Mach3's OEM DROs don't 'like' to be overwritten by the plugin. Did you configure the encoder in the plugin also?
Regards,
Matevž
-
The wires are about 9" long, but hardly anything is running. I can't imagine much interference. I have some 10k and some 5k pots, would switching to one of those help.
The slider you mention is already all the way right.
--
Encoders. There are only a few Dro's I want to control, slow jog percentage and incremental jog; maybe later feed over-ride. I've tried them all and get nothing. I won't be using encoders for jogging, I'll use the joysticks and buttons for that. There must be some setting in Mach that I'm missing. Yes the encoder is configured in the plug-in. However the column "I/O" is set to none, is that correct?
Perhaps someone you talk to at Mach can answer the problem.
Ozzie
-
Matevz,
ENCODERS
I tried using the working pot on some of the Dro's that I want to control with an encoder; no problem. So it's not a case of certain Dro's not liking to be over-ridden!
I've been re-reading some of the posts in this section of the forum and it looks like this is a not-so-new problem.
Ozzie
-
hi ozzie,
do you see the raw values changing in the standalone pokeys software?
-
Hi Tantan,
Yes!
Ozzie
-
oke, then you have to configure the plugin in the mach3 plugin controll window. if you choose the pokeys plugin, encoders tab, configure the right pins and choose the right dro, thats all.
-
That's my problem; It doesn't work!
I must have some parameter in Mach set wrong but I can't find it.
I've tried several Dro's that are on my screen but I can't get any of them to move with the encoder. They will all move with a pot but not the encoder.
Ozzie
-
Hi, Ozzie
Do you have multiple sources setting a specific DRO?
Regards,
Matevž
-
No Matevz,
At this point the system is totally minimal, temporary wiring, testing phase.
I have two joysticks controlling 3 axis; working.
One pot controlling Rapids Over-ride, working.
One encoder, so far controlling nothing.
The pot was easy to switch Dro's to test that they will change, but now I have it back to Rapid over-ride.
Nothing else connected, there are no conflicts.
It seems Mach does not see the encoder.
Does Polabs have a working model of this; Mach 3 and Pokeys with an encoder?
It should be easy for you to test, no hardware needed except Pokeys.
Ozzie
-
Hi, Ozzie
The support for encoders is one of the things that the plugin was made for. Many users use this.
Please export your complete plugin configuration (from plugin in the Mach3) and PoKeys configuration (using File>Save in PoKeys software) and send it to me (matevz [at] poscope.com).
Regards,
Matevž
-
COOL! Will do today.
Ozzie
-
The Config files are on the way.
Ozzie
-
I have it working!
A few posts back I asked about the config column labeled "I/O" since I had it set to None and was that correct. I got no answer to that question which is typical; ask two or three questions in a post and you might get an answer to one.
Anyway, on a wild guess I put input #1 in that column and now the encoder works.
Now I'll finish the board design and wire it all permenantly. I'm thinking there will be no problem with buttons and leds.
Ozzie
-
I'm thinking Pokeys is a cool little board and I'm sure that it will do more than this old fart can learn.
Thanks to Matevz and Tantan for trying to help. I'm sure that the results of the config files I sent to Matevz will be what I've now done.
As for the documentation of Pokeys and the Mach 3 plug-in, well you can judge that from the posts in this topic.
Thanks, I'm smiling ;D ;D :) :) :)
Jerry "Ozzie" Pryor
Old Curmudgeon
-
...so what am I missing here...I've been trying to get two small encoders here to control FRO and slow jog via pokeys for about 1/2 a year now!
I can get the mpg to change the FRO % but it totally takes over the DRO, not allowing the gcode to run unless I turn up the mpg first.
I stumbled on that realization by accident...gcode wasn't moving anything...I bumped the mpg and the axis started moving very slowly. turned up the mpg and it ran faster and faster....
So what's the trick to getting an MPG to control the FRO via pokeys??? I've been waiting on an update from a similar thread here with no response in a month or two now.
I'd asked about the mapping with no real info returned :-(
-
Hi,
I've been so intent on building my control board that I haven't tried running code. I will do it today and let you know what happens. Maybe we can solve it together.
Ozzie
-
Just ran code with feeds of 5 and 15 ipm in it and the FRO worked fine, both increasing and decreasing.
From what little I know, check the last column on the first Mach 3 Pokeys setup screen. The column is labeled I/O. I have it set to input #1. That was the first I tried and it worked so maybe other settings work.
Then on the encoder page of the same setup, I have the encoder routed to OEM Dro 821.
What the encoder changes is the Feed Rate OVER-RIDE. It modifies the the feedrate by a percentage in both directions; under and over.
It sounds to me like somehow you have the encoder routed to the Feed RATE.
Hope this helps. Let me know, I need/want to learn all I can about this puppy.
Ozzie
-
have tried the direct mach3 config plugin screen setup...configuring the mpg2 to dro821....that would take over the code run.
BUT the one things that sounds differenet her is your IO setting...will have to try it later this evening
ptegler
-
...tried the input #1....made no difference. My MPG will control the DRO I set it to...but the gcode is not taking control as it should. so I went back to the original 1024 screen set and ran the full gambit of testing again.... no effect.
I also noticed the reset will not work when the MPG is mapped to the FRO %. I turn off the mapping and the reset will work and gcode sets the speed correctly. :-(
-
Well, let's try the blind trying to lead the blind.
In my test yesterday the reset button worked as it should, even while the code was running.
I really became determined to find out what setting I had wrong when Matevz assured me that the software was working for others. I now assure you that it does work as you expect, you have some conflicting setting.
When I had a hard time trying to get mine to work, I kept thinking there was some setting in Mach 3 that had to be changed. But that is not true.
Since you keep referring to the encoder as an MPG, I'm wondering if you have MPG 2 turned on in Mach's native setup? If so, try turning it off. Undo any changes you made in Mach trying to make this work.
Getting this to work needs nothing but the Mach 3 Pokeys plug-in!
Ozzie
-
Ptegler,
I think you have a potentiometer connected, NOT an encoder!
Ozzie
-
not a potentometer...
I spend last evening even disconnecting the pokeys keyboard from the 66U...still no dice. The encoder(s) will take control of the DRO and not let the normal screen controls change them. Turned on/off Input#1, #2,#3, #4 no differences. T ook my main MPG that does work properly, and tried changing it to 821... same situation.
So I swapped back to the 1024 screen set as my blue steel set has a touchscreen and jogit pendant added in.... same issues. Whenever an encoder is mapped to the FRO override % DRO (821) or any of the FR related dros, the normal controls including reset do not work.
I also tested this entire sequence on the slow jog dro and the spindle speed dro. Same thing happens.
The pokeys keyboard controls do not even continue to control the dro when an encoder vie the pokeys board is mapped to the fro.
I guess it's back to waiting to pokeys to finish this in the plugin as in the other thread :-(
-
Yesterday, while doing some finish wiring on my controls, (mindless work), I was thinking about your problem. It occurred to me that everything you say is happening would happen if you connected a pot to the given Dro.
In the video of one member's new pendant, he points out using encoders for FRO and Spindle speed. So it works, it works for him, it works for me.
Since you are sure it is not a pot, I'm stuck.
I suggect that you rename the Mach 3 folder, then make a virgin installation of Mach 3. Don't modify anything in Mach 3. Install the Pokeys Mach 3 Plug-in. Disable all the Pokeys inputs except the two pins for the encoder. Then try it.
Is the encoder you are using a simple 3 pin unit, or something more sophisticated? Mine is the former. Just like the diagram in the docs. Center pin to ground, outer two pins to two Pokeys inputs. If yours is not, you might try a simple one from Radio Shack.
Ozzie
-
....Just like the diagram in the docs. ??
ok... the following is the ebay special I bought after giving up on the downfalls of using a potentiometer
The WTE version
(http://www.mopselectric.com/ebay/panasonicrotaryencoder1.jpg)
BUT...I wired it up just like the 'test circuit' on the above linked data sheet so it operates just like and MPG. One V+, one ground, and two (A/B) output pins.
(even tested it as my main MPG, which worked fine)
Are you saying you simply wired it up as 'two switches to ground' one pin to ground and the other two as individual inputs... hence you Input Input#1 statements before
(were both set to input #1 or one to #1 and one to #2) ???
-
My encoder only has the three pins in a row.
I wired the center to ground on the Pokeys.
I wired the other two to pins, to 1 and 2 of the Pokeys.
On the Mach 3 Pokeys plugin go to encoder, select any encoder number, enable it, for channel A pick pin 1, channel B pin 2, then Dro 821. Return to first page and select input #1.
I'm doing this from memory. If it doesn't look right let me know and I'll go to the garage and make an exact record of the steps. That computer is not connected to the internet but I'll do it on a notepad.
Ozzie
-
Some delays in getting my control panel going; "honey-dos", short vacation. It's 90 % wired and some buttons working, 3 pots, 1 encoder, 2 joysticks, 2 leds. "C" axis jog totALLY NOT WORKING, must check out wiring and oem button. "C" will be for knee, yet to be installed servo.
Wondering if P Tegler got his encoder working or what.
--
Now that I have some of this working, I notice that my keyboard jogging buttons don't work!
Can anyone comment on that? Matevz?
Ozzie
-
nope.
I went all the way back to the most basic screen set, still no dice.
I even unmapped the Pokeys keyboard, still to no avail.
Anytime I map an MPG or encoder directly to ANY DRO, the mapping takes precedence, and interferes with the gcode control.
ptegler
-
That's a bitch Paul.
I don't think it has anything to do with the screenset. I'm using my own weird set.
There is something making the setup act like you are connecting a pot. Being an electronic cripple, I don't know why. It seems that narrows possibilities to the encoder or the way it is wired. The encoder wiring diagram you published here included a + voltage connection and if you have that connected maybe it is the problem. The Pokeys wiring diagram for an encoder shows only three connections, one to ground, the other two to two numbered pins on the Pokeys.
Ozzie
-
Paul,
I went back to your post regarding the encoder. Try removing any wiring you used to set this up. Just use the three basic connections on the encoder; center to ground, A and B to two Pokeys pins.
Ozzie
-
Matevz,
Are you out there? Please look at post 32. Should connection of Pokeys disable the keyboard jogging keys?????
Ozzie
-
Matevz,
Sorry, 30 not 32
-
OzzieII..... yep...wired it via the schematic with the part...was the way I started... throughout this thread I ripped out the extra and re-wired with just the three pin layout (GND and two inputs) no real change.
pokeys app sees the signals... just overrides whenever mapped .
-
Hi, guys
If you need any urgent help, contact us at support@poscope.com or matevz@poscope.com, if you want to contact me directly.
Regarding your problems. Please download the attached plugin and test it. Before that, make sure that you are running the latest development version of PoKeys firmware and software.
Regards,
Matevž
-
MATEVZ !!!!
How about just a little more organization so a dummy can understand and find.
On you download page nothing is labeled firmware and there are a couple choices of software. Perhaps when you make a post like this you can just LINK to the proper "firmware and software". It's not supposed to be a puzzle.
Ozzie
-
CRAP!
I replaced the old .dll with the new, now Mach says it can't find Pokeys. I tried to reconfigure, says it can't find Pokeys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What now?????????
Aggravated Ozzie
-
In the past hour I've gone from aggravated to infuriated.
I've tried everything I can think of to make this work to no avail.
Okay, as I said above, it's not supposed to be a puzzle and I've wasted way too much time and money on this. I made an expensive mistake, Pokeys, switches, push buttons, leds, joysticks, etc.
--
The thing that infuriates me is that although I've done all I know to totally remove Pokeys from the system, it has somehow modified my screenset so that now my hotkeys do not work. I say screenset because if I go to the standard set the hotkeys do work. ?????? I have no idea how to fix this. Nor can I imagine what has happened. Both screensets have the same profile, (XML).
--
Additionally I believe the device was messing with my Ethernet Smooth Stepper. During the approximately dozen times I started and re-started Mach trying to fix the problem there were three times that Mach could not find the ESS. Only un-powering/rebooting the ESS fixed that problem.
Ozzie
-
Hi, guys
If you need any urgent help, contact us at support@poscope.com or matevz@poscope.com, if you want to contact me directly.
Regarding your problems. Please download the attached plugin and test it. Before that, make sure that you are running the latest development version of PoKeys firmware and software.
Regards,
Matevž
ok...new dll in place...fired up the pokeys app....updated the firmware (failed first time..worked fine the second attempt..could easily have been a network connection issue)
My encoder (on pins 3 &4 ) is mapped only in the beta pokeys plugin and works fine. I have a push knob encoder, which the switch is mapped through pin 10 as the reset and it works now as well and does not take over control as before (although I have not yet tested any gcode... just switches and knobs etc)
I have the pokeys keyboard active as well and it works just fine for these FRO and reset functions.
BUT I have now noticed a few oddities and am writing here , treating this as beta feedback for you guys. :-)
I an under the impression these are background issues in the plugin code rather than the xml/saveable config.
1- Upon MACH3 startup.... the kbd48CNC now always defaults to axis C enabled. Is there any way to pre-set which axis it comes up on?
(I tried playing with the plugin config but don't see anything there.)
2- I have a couple push buttons (actually joystick switches) for jogging, attached as digital inputs to the 56u
Even though the 'C' axis is active (on the kbd48CNC) I can still jog correctly as the the joysticks are mapped to button pushes. BUT.... INC jogs are at TWICE the distance set (IE 0.100 will move 0.200) After touching an axis select button on the kbd48CNC (x,y or z), the first move will be the proper distance, but there after are twice the set distance. I've manually entered other valuse to increment, just to manually verify it was not kbd48CNC or other related issues.
3- toggling the 'jog mode' use to cycle through all three modes/selections IE: CONT-INC-MPG modes , now it does not. It only switches between CONT and INC I have to hit the kbd48CNC 'MPG' button to get it over to the MPG jog.
4-I have the 56U pin 9 mapped as a Mach3 "SHIFT KEY" to enable FAST JOG function on a button near my joysticks which works just fine ....
so too does the right most kbd48CNC keyboard '~ ' key to enable/toggle FAST JOG mode The SHIFT key will light up the Mach3 screen LED properly as long as the key is held down. The kbd48CNC '~ ' toggle the mode, but does not light the screen LED The kbd48CNC '~' KEY is a toggle rather than a momentary like the SHIFT KEY, but the kbd48CNC '~' does not light the Mach3 screen Fast JOG LED at all.
Thanks for the encoder fix.... this was my biggie. The rest right now are just annoyances, I'll have to try and remember (save the INC jog at double the distance.
...was thinking that was a key bounce issue... but is not as the + / - keys on the kbd48CNC do the same (double distance)
-
Hi, guys
If you need any urgent help, contact us at support@poscope.com or matevz@poscope.com, if you want to contact me directly.
Regarding your problems. Please download the attached plugin and test it. Before that, make sure that you are running the latest development version of PoKeys firmware and software.
Regards,
Matevž
ok...new dll in place...fired up the pokeys app....updated the firmware (failed first time..worked fine the second attempt..could easily have been a network connection issue)
My encoder (on pins 3 &4 ) is mapped only in the beta pokeys plugin and works fine. I have a push knob encoder, which the switch is mapped through pin 10 as the reset and it works now as well and does not take over control as before (although I have not yet tested any gcode... just switches and knobs etc)
I have the pokeys keyboard active as well and it works just fine for these FRO and reset functions.
BUT I have now noticed a few oddities and am writing here , treating this as beta feedback for you guys. :-)
I an under the impression these are background issues in the plugin code rather than the xml/saveable config.
1- Upon MACH3 startup.... the kbd48CNC now always defaults to axis C enabled. Is there any way to pre-set which axis it comes up on?
(I tried playing with the plugin config but don't see anything there.)
2- I have a couple push buttons (actually joystick switches) for jogging, attached as digital inputs to the 56u
Even though the 'C' axis is active (on the kbd48CNC) I can still jog correctly as the the joysticks are mapped to button pushes. BUT.... INC jogs are at TWICE the distance set (IE 0.100 will move 0.200) After touching an axis select button on the kbd48CNC (x,y or z), the first move will be the proper distance, but there after are twice the set distance. I've manually entered other valuse to increment, just to manually verify it was not kbd48CNC or other related issues.
3- toggling the 'jog mode' use to cycle through all three modes/selections IE: CONT-INC-MPG modes , now it does not. It only switches between CONT and INC I have to hit the kbd48CNC 'MPG' button to get it over to the MPG jog.
4-I have the 56U pin 9 mapped as a Mach3 "SHIFT KEY" to enable FAST JOG function on a button near my joysticks which works just fine ....
so too does the right most kbd48CNC keyboard '~ ' key to enable/toggle FAST JOG mode The SHIFT key will light up the Mach3 screen LED properly as long as the key is held down. The kbd48CNC '~ ' toggle the mode, but does not light the screen LED The kbd48CNC '~' KEY is a toggle rather than a momentary like the SHIFT KEY, but the kbd48CNC '~' does not light the Mach3 screen Fast JOG LED at all.
Thanks for the encoder fix.... this was my biggie. The rest right now are just annoyances, I'll have to try and remember (save the INC jog at double the distance.
...was thinking that was a key bounce issue... but is not as the + / - keys on the kbd48CNC do the same (double distance)
OZZEII... you need to run the pokeys app outside Mach3. BUT FIRST
just copy the dll int othe pokeys plugin directory.
On the 56U web page (http://www.poscope.com/pokeys56u) select the manuals/downloads and DNLthe lastest plugin
[Development Version] PoKeys software v3.0.57 + PoBlocks beta 1.1.0.10 + Mach3 plugin (5.7.2013) Size: (25.13 MB)
run the app and it will install everything needed... I just caledl the new one pokeysbeta so it saved the old directories and files by writing the new stuff to a new dir.
run the pokeys app first.... it might error out but just restart it. You can the update the firmware. Mine took two tries but worked correctly (I think for me a it was a network timeout the first time)
...see my last post back for the pokey guys
-
Thanks Paul,
It's comforting to know you've got it going. I'll get back at it tomorrow, (calmer now). :P.
I did manage to get back to where I was before I tried the new plug-in.
Ozzie
-
Following Paul's instructions I succeeded in upgrading the "stuff". So far I haven't noticed any differences. For Paul it is a different story, good.
My keyboard hotkeys still do not work but all that was there is now on my control board, so if I decide to continue with Pokeys that won't be a problem, (just a question as to why).
I got all my buttons routed but two, (wired in parallel), they were to be "shift" keys for my jogging buttons. I can not find a way to do that on the plug-in inside Mach. But there is on the Pokeys setup. At first I couldn't get that to work, seemed to have no effect, but eventually worked. You must disable the button in the plug-in, enable the keyboard equivalent in Pokeys, send to device, then restart Mach 3.
So this morning I've played around trying all the buttons and knobs and the joysticks, tried running a g-code dry, no servos running. All seems to work okay, BUT, one really scary thing is that once in a while one or more Dros change without apparent reason. Those that change are the axis and the FRO, not insignificant. The FRO changes by monster amounts and the axis by tenths or thousandths. I realize this is noise/cross-talk but I don't know the source or how to find it. I do notice that every time I make a change in either setup this axis dros go crazy. I guess I'll check all the wiring connections, but beyond that I'm stuck.
I want to get back to machining stuff, I'm tired of playing electronics about which I know nothing. I wish there were more people on this site, contributing either their successes or failures and advice.
Ozzie
-
No posts from NeoTo/Matevz for 9 days. At that time he asked for individual contact. It is strange that rather trying to help anyone reading these posts he prefers to keep it private. Maybe they'd like to abandon this forum, maybe he's just on vacation. ;D
I have not been able to solve my noise problem, axis DROs just suddenly move while system is sitting idle.
My keyboard jog buttons do not work since installing Pokeys; even if I disable Pokeys.
Some sort of response would be nice, even to say we don't know.
Ozzie
-
I fully agree that this should be kept on the forums so everyone can see the results later on down the road.
I also asked Matevz a question on the Yahoo boards about his setup that he posted pictures of and has not yet replied, and that was July 15th.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/141059;_ylc=X3oDMTJ0cjg1ZGpvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEwNjYxNjM5BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzY5NwRtc2dJZAMxNDEwNTkEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTM3Mzk2MjA2OQ--
Dave
-
Ozzie,
It might be time to look into an Arduino, or even better an Arduino Mega, you can do all the same stuff, and a HUGE open source user community! Lots of 3rd party hardware and DIY as well. I made the switch a while back now, and never looked back.
Scott
-
Scott Baby,
That's so easy for you, impossible for me.
I need explicit directions; buy this, do this, wire this here, etc, etc.
I tried to learn a little electronics a while back; it was all about vacuum tubes and stuff. I gave up.
Don't spread it around but I don't really know what an Arduino is. Sounds like a new hot Italian chef.
I have no idea how many Pokeys customers there are or who is interested in this sort of thing. I've operated Mach for a very long time with just a keyboard and a mouse, (and I will probably continue to do so for a while). But if there is a market Poppa Bear, I think that you'd be an ideal guy to come out with some package; something electronic dummies like me can deal with.
For those of you that might not know Scott, he's a straight up guy, no BS, been around this stuff long time.
Ozzie
-
Hello OzzieII:
I hear you about needing a step by step manual re Hi-Tech mods for the Mach3, but don't be so quick to write off learning some electronics. If a person absolutely has to just start cutting metal, even a new Haas or Mitsubishi CNC mill or lathe will take some study before you can do anything with it; and about $45,000.00 or more up front.
Mach3 is a way to get into CNC for a very small $dollar investment, but not at all plug-and-play.
Look at it like an adventure in electrical/mechanical schooling, with a lot of fellow students. Be patient, try stuff, follow the forums, and things eventually will make sense, and fall into place.
The "Arduino" is a family of micro-computer boards designed in Italy by a group of very savvy computer engineers with the goal of making electronics and computers usable, and understandable to the newbie. The boards are in the neighborhood of $30 to $75, follow a basic, similar layout, run on 3.5 or 5 volts DC, and use an easily learned programming system. It uses a basic form of the "C" computer language, and they have an excellent reference forum, explaining in detail every imaginable task you can think of, and then some. Many of the contributors to the forum are professional software engineers, and University teachers who enjoy helping people learn. It, the "Arduino", is a truly outstanding development platform used worldwide.
There are many Mach3 users who have employed the Arduino in projects as an addition to their CNC systems. There are step-by-step examples to be found within this Mach3 forum.
In a way, the Pokeys is similar to the Arduino, but is a "stand alone" pulse engine, and is also a microcomputer. However, the Pokeys has far fewer people to provide hands on assistance, being a very small Hi-Tech company. The both "talk" to the PC running Mach3 through the USB, or Ethernet port.
I have been in the CNC machining business since the 1980's, and used to write programs on a TeleType machine, on paper tape rolls. The world of CNC machining and the related electronics have come a long, long ways, and what we watch these machines do today is indistinguishable from "magic."
Hang in there, and be patient. Things have a way of eventually working out.
-
Hello MR,
If you would sign I could address you properly.
Anyway thanks for your encouragement though I hardly think I need it. This isn't my first rodeo, as they say. I've followed along with Art as he developed Mach since the beginning around 2002; even was able add a couple cents worth here and there; found a couple major bugs. I've been published in Digital Machinist and Home Shop Machinist 10 times, my stuff on the cover twice.
I fumble through the wiring and electronic stuff I need to make my machines run, but electronics are pretty much a mystery. I see that in this new issue of Digital Machinist there is a big article centered on the Arduino. I speed read it and I will read it thoroughly, but I saw enough to know it is way over my head. There are far too many words totally foreign to me, abbreviations, initials. I'm sure the author thinks it's very fundamental, but it 'aint baby; not for this old dog.
Before I bought Pokeys I was about to create a control console using Mach's KeyGrabber and a couple Wingman jotstick controllers; I should have stayed on that path. For me that's easy, take it apart, wire switches, pots, looks totally pro.
However with the help of Matevz I led myself down a path that looked golden but now seems more gravel.
Pokeys is cheap and it is probably a good product; ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for someone smarter than I.
Arduino is cheap and maybe better than Pokeys; for someone smarter than I.
I wouldn't need to be smart if the docs were better. It took me about 10 minutes to get my Ethernet Smooth Stepper running. Hook this up here, run this wire, on the computer do this, etc. etc., etc.
My uneducated thought is that both Pokeys and Arduino are electronic black boxes that can do many and varied things. For me to make use of them I need someone to make them Mach specific, which may be as simple as writing a PDF. Problem is, how do you make a buck doing that.
I am surprised that Pokeys has a plug-in for Mach, but that no one from Mach is chiming in here on this Mach support forum! The docs for that plug-in are as bombastic as the regular Pokeys manual.
Hey, I still have my keyboard and mouse which work fine, a half dozen of my custom screens which work fine; along with a pretty board full of buttons and knobs.
Ozzie
-
It has been just over a month since this forum has heard from NEOTO.
Scott "PoppaBear" has helped some here, including a private message to me. Thanks Scott.
From time to time, I've continued to tinker with my Pokeys powered console. The most recent of my problems to solve were:
Keyboard hotkeys no longer working at all.
Noise changing axis dros.
Noise changing FRO dros, extreme.
C axis jog not working correctly.
Confusion about how the Mach 3 plug-in and the native Pokeys program interact.
----
I decided to rebuild my Mach 3 Pokeys setup.
I suspected that the hotkey problem might be related to using the keyboard as a usb unit. I connected it to the standard keyboard port with an adapter. As I rebuilt the Pokeys setup I kept checking the hotkeys; they are still working.
I suspected that the axis dro noise might be from the the Wingman joysticks I was using. Posts on other forums, gaming forums, suggest that those analog joysticks are difficult to tune and stabilize. So in the new setup I eliminated them. The axis dros are now dead steady.
The FRO noise was hard to repeat, it would stay steady for long periods of time then suddenly leap to thousands. Since everything else looked steady I decided it was a bad unit or the associated wiring. I bought a couple new encoders from Ebay; I think the same units that Paul Tegler has. I used a more secure type connectors in rewiring them. So far the dro looks steady, but I want to test longer.
I want to power the knee on my milling machine so I have two jog buttons for a C axis on my board. I tried to set it up the same way I did the X,Y.Z, and A axis jog buttons, but when pressing and releasing the button, the axis would continuously move until I press the other direction or escape. I tried to set it up as B axis; same result. I tried creating hoykeys for the C; that works. After playing with Pokeys for a couple hours the C jog buttons now work, but I'm not sure what I did to it. It is certainly not straight forward.
I believe some of my problems come/came from not understanding the interaction between the Mach 3 plug-in and the Pokeys stand-alone. Somewhere I read that a setting in the plug-in would override a setting in the stand-alone. I'm not sure that is totally correct. In getting things to work here I made sure I did not have a setting in both. One might think that if you don't have the stand-alone running, it has no effect, that is not correct. To set up a keyboard emulation I set the plug-in for that pin to inactive and then route the pin in the plug to a keyboard emulation. That works even though I don't start the stand-alone in a session. I set an emulation for "shift" (for rapid jogs), and that always works. Part of what I did to get the C buttons to work was to clear the pin settings in the stand-alone.
--
So my Pokeys powered board is working! No joysticks, still testing the encoder, but it is working.
I should end this on a bright note but I'm compelled to bitch about the lack of public support and the deplorable documentation from the Pokeys people. And I might add that no one from Artsoft made any attempt to help. I think that if you support a plug-in, you share some bit of responsibility.
--
I run both milling machine and lathe from one computer, one instance of Mach 3. I tried enabling Pokeys on my lathe profile, but the Milling machine settings come up, leading me to believe that I can't use one Pokeys unit for both machines. If mach 3 would arrange storage of the Pokeys plug-in tied to a machine profile, I could use a different set of settings; get the use of Pokeys on more than one machine. I think that would work?
Ozzie