Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: JAC on May 13, 2013, 11:05:18 AM
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Hi, like the title say. Im confuse about Mach3 not sure if its right to say that or Im confuse myself. Its not because its a hard program to learn but because Im so use to write programs for CNC lathe using different program.(EzPath 14 years) and Im trying to make things on Mach3 as I do for Ezpath. any way my questions are:
-Do I need the Lazycam program to convert my drwaings to G codes then move them to Mach3 or I can go directly from AutoCad drawings (dxf) to Mach3?
- Also, I know I can write the programs as Text then move them to Mach3 . I still trying to remember how to write the G codes.
-On Mach3 where/how I save my tools? Its there any tool library to save all my tools?
-On Ezpath program I tell the program what size the material its then how much to take per pass on rough cuts and how much to left for final cut. How I do all that on Mach3 program? I know it should work close to be the same.
Thank you
Jaime
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-Do I need the Lazycam program to convert my drwaings to G codes then move them to Mach3 or I can go directly from AutoCad drawings (dxf) to Mach3?
Current versions of Mach no longer import dxf files directly so you need a program to provide the gcode. There is a manaul for LazyCam in Members Doc's.
The lathe module of LazyCam requires that you have a pro license and LazyTurn replaced that module.
I still trying to remember how to write the G codes.
Use a text editor such a Notepad and save the file as ******************.TXT. If how to actual write the gcode the suggest you consult one of the manny
books available.
-On Mach3 where/how I save my tools? Its there any tool library to save all my tools?
You can find info in the Mach Manuals.
-On Ezpath program I tell the program what size the material its then how much to take per pass on rough cuts and how much to left for final cut. How I do all that on Mach3 program? I know it should work close to be the same.
Mach dosen't define the machining....that is done by the CAD / CAM software.
RICH
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Jaime,
Mach 3 isn't a conversational CNC like EZpath. It is just a straight G-code interpreter. So you have to manually code the program or use a CAM program. LazyCam is a real basic Cam program in that it only reads 2D dxf files and outputs what many would call 2-1/2D. That is an XY contouring tool path along with stepped Z motion. I think if you look at the mill wizard addons and such you will that they work more like the EZpath CNC.
Gary H. Lucas
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Hi Gary . think thats why Im comfuse . been so many years using EzPath. I learded long time ago in school how to write G-code programs just need to remember how they work . still remember just the basic. Forn now just need to learn how Mack3 works . Only making simple parts with table top mill for now.(Aluminum. brackets, straight line and circle thats all for now). I know as soon I figure out how it works its going to be easy. just having trouble learning for now.
thank you
Jaine
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Gcode programming info which may be helpfull.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,24580.msg173809.html#msg173809
RICH
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Hi Rich, I got all those pages already (HASS Mill programming workbook) they give me that book in school (2003 or 2004 been long tome ago) thats how I learned to write G-code programs and I was running that machine at school but then at work we use the other program thats why I forgot about them. I been reading them to refresh my memory.
I been looking for Lazycam doc's. but cant find them , I found some but not what I was looking for but also say (there are user-written manuals for LazyCam and LazyTurn available on the Members Docs board of the forum (requires registration to access the board). where its the Members Docs board . let em keep looking for now.
Thank you
Jaime
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Link to Lazycam Manual , then scroll down in the list and you will find the LazyTurn Manual.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12078.msg77415.html#msg77415
RICH
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HI RICH thank you, got the LC Manual now. Im reading it slowly page by page. Can you tell me why when I imporrt a dxf drawing to LC let say a square, its only one chain but i has 4 entities (0,1,2,3), so my problem its. when I click them in order one at the time (0,1,2,3) I spect them to go in order around the square but insted they go from left side then to the rigth, then up then bottom. I can see few rapid lines.
What Im doing wrong? what do I have to change to make it go in order around the square?.
thank you
Jaime
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Jaime,
The lines are probably in the order drawn by your CAD program. When they get chained the lines will all connect, so that doesn't really matter much.
Gary H. Lucas
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Hi Gary. My only consern its that I see few rapid lines going from one side to the other. I was spect to see only one. I'll make a new drawing in the order I want the part to be cut. let me try it. Then if nothing change I try to post the G-codes to Mach3 and see how its going to cut.
thank you
Jaime
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Jaime,
After importing the DXF you should CLEAN the file. The manual talks about hw to change the pathng / cutting direction and also starting location so no need to draw in some particular order.
RICH
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Hi RICH, Im reading the manual and doing the LC at same time. finally I got my drawing going in order the way I want to be cut.I did the tool set up. I did the Offset as well, and I can see the offset line outside the part. so im getting there slowly. the only thing stilln need to change its where its start. I can see the tool its position on (0,0) bottom left corner but when it go to the rapid it moves all the way to the other side, how I change it to make start machining on the bottom left corner of the part. I'll keep readding hope I can find it. Also I dont know what I did but first time I try it it was showing one pass (1/2" deep) thats the way I want but then it shows multiple passes . Well thing it going to be lot of reading before I get everything rigth . but as soon as I learn its going to be so easy.
Thak you for all your help
Jaime
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Gcode programming info which may be helpfull.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,24580.msg173809.html#msg173809
RICH
Thanks RICH, I'm in the process of learning, I'd missed that one.
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To change the rapid start point see Tutorial #7 section 2.1 ( page 110 ).
You just put the mouse pointer on the direction indicator and drag it to a new location.
RICH
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Hi RICH. I been reading all the LC manual, now I have better idea of how it works.For what I practice with a simple drawing and have readed.
There is a way to make cut from the side of the part instead of from the top down.
When I do all the settings I can see it cuts around the contour of the part from top then start going doun with each step. Its there a way to set so it start cutting from the side of the part. If I have a 4" square and I want to make a 3" circle,, material .500 thick. How can I set the settings so it star cutting from the side cutting the hole thicknes .500 but only .050 per pass till get to the 3" circle. Its there a way?
Also If I use a roughing end mill, how I do so it left about .020" for final pass later with regular end mill?
It is possible to do that or I still comfuse cause still thinking how I do the parts at work with CNC lathe.
thank you
Jaime
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Create a drawing with a 3" cirlce in the center of the 4"square. Create a pocket ( you need the pro version to do this) based on a created tool.
This will machine all the stock from the squareto the circle.
You can also just select the circle and do offsets based on a rough and finishing tool. Also you can add lead in / lead outs.
Continue readng the manual............. ;)
RICH
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Thank you, RICH. I try that now. I was going to ask you about the lead in and lead out. Sorry I dont know what they taltking about. What is a lead? how it works? Im reading little evrey day and trying on LC. Still wating on my replacement driver, it should get here next week so I can try to run my machine to see how it works and run few test program on top of the parts.
Thank you
Jaime
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Lead in / out are pre-cutting moves, thus the tool approaches the piece in a particular manner prior to actual cutting.
They are covered in the manual.
RICH
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Hi RICH, When I post the Gcode from LC to mach3 it come out in Incremental. How I do , where I can change so it come out in Absolute. I know its a way I can see it on the LC manual , but been looking for it and I cant finr it on LC nor mcah3. Its on LC manual page 57. let mem keep looking.
Thank you
Jaime
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In Mach General Logic Configuration>Distance Mode, select Absolute.
RICH
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HI RICH, I already check the mach3 Distance mode and it is on Absolute already so why it give me a G91 code when I post Gcodes from LC.
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Attached is a file of a simple square. Import the file into LC, clean it, and then post to Mach.
Post the code that was generated.
RICH
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Hi RICH, I imported the file to LC then to mach3 and it give me the same G91. check the PDF file .
Thank you
Jaime
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In LC under SetUp>Posting Options> uncheck Incremental IJ's
Checking the incremental Ij's will give you a G91.1, G90.1 when unchecked, but there are no arc's and the code is absolute
in the file you posted.
RICH
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Hi RICH, I uncheck the IJ's on LC and it works, now im getting the G90 code.
My personal Laptop its not working so for now Im using this PC for personal use, ( I got this PC for my machine only Windows XP), My question is . After setting all the softlimits on my machine it be ok to disconnect all the motor cables (X,Y,Z) so I can bring the PC inside cause machine it in garage or I going need to set softlimits every time I connect back to the motors.
thank you
Jaime
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With switches you have a repeatable independant means of locating home and restricting axis travel. With soft lmits you are assuming that nothing happened to move an axis while the machine is not hooked up to the controller.
RICH
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Hi RICH, I still having problems with LC, Cant make the Offset and pocketes to come out right even if I go steo by step like the manual said,I might be dowing something wrong with drawing.
When I make the drawing should I draw just the shape of the part or I should draw the rough plate and the shap of the part I want to machine?
But for now I can post the sample drawing and get the basic Gcode and from there I can finish the rest.Im rememeber little at the time on how to write the Gcode programs so I can try it maching. still waiting for my driver.
Thank you
Jaime
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When I make the drawing should I draw just the shape of the part or I should draw the rough plate and the shap of the part I want to machine?
To create an offset you need a profile of what your going to offset. If you want to pocket then you will need both the profile and something else to define the oustide or inside boundry. The boundry can be the rough plate or something larger.
Cant make the Offset and pocketes to come out right
I would need to know what you are trying to do and how you are going about doing it to help.
RICH
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Hi RICH. Im trying to make an Aluminum bracket using a 4"X4.25"X 1/2" thick pice. I would drill a 2-3/4" center hole first. (I normally make 15-20 pices at the time by hand).
I was planning to machine the center hole on all of them first to 3.020" . Normally I use a roughing end mill to 2.990" then finish pass with regular end mill.
Then machine the out side. same thing using the roughing end mill and have about .030" for the regular end mill.
I'll do all the insides first then all the outsides.
When I try to do the pokets I get a poket area on center and its square area instead of been round even if I try to poket the outside still getting the square poket area on center so Im not sure what Im doing wrong. Im going to attacha drawing of the part. Hope you can open it and let me know whats the best way to machine and what iIm doing wrong.
Finally I got my driver so I be trying it hope it works now. what Im going to do for now its have the basic drawing on LC them import it to Mach3 to get the Gcodes from there I can change-modified the program the way I want the part to be cut, but stillI want to leardn how to use LC the right way.
thank you
Jaime
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Forgot to tell you the bracket its 3.5" on base, 3.250" long, outside circle 4" and inside circle 3"
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How do you plan on holding down the rough stock?
That may determine your approach to machining the piece. You may also want change the stock so you can hold the piece for all operations.
One approach would be to cut the outside profile and then do the inside circle / profile and thus no pocketing is required. To each their owne, but if that were the case, then I would draw the outside and inside profiles on individual layers and name / associate the layer to the machining task to be done.
To pocket there must be an inside and outside closed profile and the tool must have room to get inside. So if paocketing you can just draw an appropriate sized square on it's owne layer and so named.
Now if the stock were a little bigger so you could hold the piece, then i would machine the inside hole first and do the outside profile last.
Note that a radius should be drawn which the tool can machine for the outside profile. You can't machine a sharp corner with a round cutter.
Also note that you may want to draw the origin of the part differently. IE; have the inner circle
center be 0,0,0. This way you can always use the center hole to reference the part, but , all depends on what is most important to you.
Just a few thoughts,
RICH
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Hi RICH. The way I machine the pice by hand its: like I told you before I predrill a 2-3/4" hole with a holesaw first, then I clamp the pice on the outside to machine the center to 2.970" with the rough end mill and finish it to 3.000" with regular end mll.
Then the outside: I clamp it from the inside of circle and I do the same, maching with rough end mill and finish with regular end mill.
Bucause I make 15-20 pices at the time I do all the inside first then all the outsides. So I was thinking on doing the same but I can I do all the part at once that way I dont have to clamp them twice.
I do my cuts 1/2" deep (thickness of material) and .050" per pass.
So for what you said to make the pocket works I need to have enough material for endmill to cut around the part? If that the case, can I make the draing with the material to be enough so I can the pocketting?
There is a setting on mach3 "BACKLASH". What is that for? its to compansate for backlash on screw?
I got my driver last Friday, I calibrate my steps and I was testing my machine with the sample drawing and Gcode. It runs ok I did a test run just doing the contour of my part . I have .007 Backlash on X axis and .005 on Y axis.
Thank you
Jaime
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Backalash will take care of the non-movement of the screw when changing direction. Best to get rid of it but
you have what you have.
My suggested settings are the 50-50-50 rule which you may want to consider is as follows:
50% - The max velocity is 50% of where your steppers will start to skip
50% - Set the shuttle Wheel setting in configuration to .0050 to .050 ( .5 too slow )
50% - Backlash speed
The Shuttle Wheel Accel is in seconds. Observing the difference in how the motor reacts to different settings you will see that it affects the overall time it takes for Mach to take up the backlash and at say a value of 5 you will find that over five seconds the handwheel / shaft will turn rather slowly. At 0.005 sec its almost instantaneous. In the real slow setting, and say you jog a distance of .1" you will find there seems to be almost 3 distinct motor responses in the cycle,....... a small rotation then deceleration...... then backlash taken up over a time...and then accel and move to finish the distance.
So to get of flavor of it you need to start slow, observe, listen to see what is happening over an operating range.
Work your way up in settings.
RICH
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Ok RICH, So on the backslash screen on the X axis I type the .007" and on Y axis .005" then on backslash speed % I start with 10% then increase 5% at a time till I get correct reading. I'll try it till Iget it right.
I tried to get all the backslash from the screws, but if I get them to be .001 backslah it get too tight so thats the best I can get them, and for the parts Im making, it should be ok if I can get them to be .002".003"
Thank you
Jaime
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Hi RICH, Im still playing with LC, I understanding better every day but at same time Im running into new problems.
I havent get good enough to make the off set and posting them but Im lerning, for now I can make the basic part and post the Gcode to Mach3 (without the tool).
My new problem now its when I try to program a tool and psot it on Mach3. It show the Gcode but it doesnt display the part on the table display and Im getting an error "Nested comment found, Block=N50 M6 T1 (tool change 5/8" end mill).
Why its doing that? what do I need to change?
Thank you
Jaime
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Are you using the pro version of LC?
RICH
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Hi RICH, Im using the one it download with Mach3. LC version 3.00
thank you
Jaime
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The free version dosen't do offsetting and pocketing.
You can get around the offsetting by just drawing a profile around the original with consideration for what tool you will use
amd post code for the offset profile only.
RICH
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Hi RICH, what about the Mach3 demo version. Can I actually cut simple parts to make sure everything its ok with machine and computer before buying it?. Can I write a program (Text) and then load it to Mach3 and cut my part?
I been thinking on how to do it without the offset and pocket and doing all without unclamping my part. Like you suggest I need to draw few profiles to cut before the finish part.
Can I write my progam to use the rough endmill first then stop to change it for the regular endmill?. Can I use the M1 Otional stop or M6 Tool change with Mach3 demo version?.
Thank you
Jaime
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Jaime,
The free version of LC is restricted and as noted in the manual the Pro Version is required for advanced features
like offsetting and pocketing. I would suggest you have a look at some other software before buying the pro version
since advances have been made in the other software available and LC is not being developed.
Yes you can cut simple parts with the code generated from LC but note that the you define what and how a part is to be machined. The are wizards for doing text which are better than what LC will provide.
If you don't have automated tool changer nor homing swithces then best thing you can do is do is individual machining tasks. You need to learn how to setup a job for machining, how to decide to machine the piece, learn basic functions of cnc, etc, etc and that is beyond the general support I can provide you.
I would suggest that you purchase CNC Programming Handbook and study it.
RICH
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Hi RICH, I really appreciate all your help. It helps me a lot cause Mach3 its new for me. Im machines and welder. I write CNC programs for Lathe and run the lathe all the time but the program its EzPath, it so sample, and I use manual mill all the time. like I told you before I learned Gcode programs long time ago. now I get confuse, but I start to remember slowly. I know how to set up the work and machining different ways just need to learn how Mach3 works.
If I write a program for Mach3 using all the Godes and M codes to cut a part it should run ok and cut the part?.
I forgot to ask you if I use the G41 and G42 (cutter compensation) they would work?.
Can I write and save all my tools on Mach3. SO when I write mty programs it should know the tools?.
I already took care of the backslash on my X,Y axis it works perfect now. like I told you. you been helping me a lot.
thank you
Jaime
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CNC Programming Handbook by Smid would be an excellent reference book and covers more than most will ever know.
There are different dialects of gcode and Mach controller is no different on some, or may i say how it's implemented, but each gcode is defined in the manuals. G41 and g42 will work and you need to program correctly for it to compensate for the tool.You can define and save tools on Mach and it's covered in the Mach manual.
RICH
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Hi RICH, Im testing my gcode program.When I load my program and star the cycle,why I dont see any tool showing on the tool infromation window. I save the 5/8 end mill on the "Tool table" tool #1. I can run all the program but tool information doesnt show.
On tool table why when I click on the tool icon it change to different shape every time? Its something I should change as well?
thank you
Jaime
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Hi RICH, I got couple programs running (outside and inside of my part) it runs ok. Im using the M1 to stop the program and change the endmill and it works ok too. I havent cut a real part for now just cutting above the part.
Why still not showing the tools Im using on screen when program its running?. I have the tools program on Mach3 tool table already ( Tool diameter,Tool high).its cause Im using only the demo version of Mach3.
Also when Im done running some practice passes and I close the Mach3 program, it ask me if I want to save the fixture. What it that for?
thank you
Jaime
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Jaime,
when I click on the tool icon it change to different shape every time? Its something I should change as well?
The tool shape can be changed and serves as quick visual indication of tool type when you click one of the
numbered tools. If that helps you then change it.
See page 5-34 for Configuring the Toolpath Dialog in the Mach3Mill CNC Controller Software Installation
and Configuration Manual.
close the Mach3 program, it ask me if I want to save the fixture
See page 5-39 for General Logic Configuration in the Mach3Mill CNC Controller Software Installation
and Configuration Manual.
From the manual:
Axis DRO Properties: Tool Selections Persistent, if checked, remembers the selected tool at shutdown
of Mach3.
Optional Offset Save, if checked, will prompt to verify that you want to actually do any save requested
in Persistent Offsets.
Persistent Offsets, if checked, will save the work and tool offsets in the permanent tables you have
selected between runs of Mach3Mill. See also Optional Offset Save.
Persistent DROs, if checked, the axis DROs will have the same values on startup as when Mach3 is
closed down. Note that the positions of the physical axes are unlikely to be preserved if the machine
tool is powered down, especially with micro-stepper drives.
RICH
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Hi RICH. I already read it. What I was thinking its that by writting the tool # in program, when you load the program the tool information will apear automatically in the tool information screen. So what I learned now its that by typing the tool # in the tool information screen it shows the tool informatio. Its that correct or I still wrong and tool information should show just by typing it on the program and load it.
With all the basic things I know now about Mach3 I should be able to start cutting some parts next weekend.
Thank you
Jaime
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The pathing created in LC uses the defined tool information from LC. Posted code will call out the tool number used in LC. The tool information in the MACH3 screen is from the tool table of MACH3 if you have that tool defined in the Mach tool table and if not you will only see the tool number. LC or Mach dosen't know what tool you actualy have in the spindle and you have a few options to deal with that in Mach's configuration. Changing a tool can be automated or manualy done.
Unless you have a tool changer it becomes rather simple in that you should have have the correct tool in the spindle along with the tool touched off correctly and just run the program.
RICH
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Hi RICH. I start practice with the text (engrave) with Mach3 and I having some problems. What Im doing its a circle (my part) with text inside the circle. My problem its that when I import a drawing from Autocad the only thing showing its the circle and not text at all and when I import another drawing its missing some letter in text.
What Im doing wrong?. Whats the best way to do the text (engrave) with Mach3?.
thank you
Jaime
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There are Wizards available in Mach which will provide the gcode for text. Deskegrave is a free program which will
do text along an arc.
Not sure exactly how you are using AutoCad. Put the text on it's owne layer, explode the text and then export only the text.
If using LC make sure you CLEAN the file after importing it. The text should show in the graphics window.
RICH
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Hi RICH, I got the text working now. I did some changes in autocad and now when import the text to LC its showing normal, but when I inport it to Mach3 it only shows 50 lines and it should be about 150 -180 lines total. I run the mach3 with the 50 lines and it works ok.
For now I only got the demo version of Mach3 but it say's the limit its 500 lines for demo version. DoI have to change some setting or Im doing something wrong again.
thank you
Jaime
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Jaime,
There is no setting that will change the limit. Maybe it's time to purchase Mach. ;)
RICH
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Hi RICH,, I almost got all the money to buy the program. Im saveing little every pay check but lot of bills every month. so its going to take me little longer than I was thinking from the beginning. For now I still setting up my machine and want to make sure everything works ok for parts I wan to make so when I buy the program it be ready. I dont want to get more than 500 lines. I know demo version only give you 500 lines but I only getting 50 lines now.
Its something wrong with program? Do I have to download it againg?.
thank you
Jaime
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It's been a long time ago, but i do remember not getting 500 lines of code to post or run in Demo mode.
Don't remember the specifics or even if it was associated with LC. Save you pennies........
RICH