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Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: mvoros on May 05, 2013, 02:16:08 PM

Title: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 05, 2013, 02:16:08 PM
Hi,
I'm rebuilding my JCut 6090B Chinese router, because it crashed into every job I started last year.
I was told by Hood that the machine must have noise issues. The limit wires were not shielded, so I changed them to shielded ones, put the water cooled spindle wire into a separate flexible metal conduit, so it can't cross the signal wires (by the way this wire was a shielded one, but they didn't tie it to anything). Moved the home switches from behind the dust covers to outside where I can keep an eye on them (several times they got wiped out). I also cut 5 foot off the motor and other wires and the round flexible tube they were in. Don't know why the made it so long.
Decided to go the Ethernet Smoothstepper way. Did a mountain of research on the subject before ordering everything that is needed from CNC4PC. When I got the ESS card I hooked the 5 volt 3 amp power supply to it, configured the card and my PC's Ethernet port to talk to each other it worked fine to my delight. After mounting the cards into my control box, and wiring up according a diagram I got from Arturo at CNC4PC double and triple checked everything, yesterday I powered up the control no explosion just a faint smell of burning. LED's didn't come on the ESS nor the C41 spindle control card. Only these two cards had the 5 volts hooked up to them. Since I didn't see any damage to them, I took them out to have better look. The ESS is burned at the 5 volt terminal, the C42 card shows burning at the GND terminal.
I can't help wondering about the 5 V power supply's 3 AMP. However this supplies the power to the home switches also, and there was no problem when I configured it to my PC inside the house. So  I think it must have something to do with the ground wires. On the ESS, there is a + and a - terminal to connect the 5 volt into. The C41 card has 5 V and GND terminal. Am I confusing the GND and the neutrals on the power supply? I'm attaching the wiring diagram.
Could one of you guys be my mentor, I really want to make this work. I'll buy another ESS and C41 board.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 06, 2013, 05:55:46 AM
The - and Gnd are one in the same, ie 0v of your power supply. Dont see what went wrong unless your 5v supply is unregulated and putting out a lot more than 5v.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 06, 2013, 06:32:48 AM
Hi Hood,
I'm glad you answered my distress call. The power supply is  A20 from CNC4PC. I don't know if it is unregulated or not. I did check the voltage before connecting to the boards, it was 5 volt. Attaching the specs for it. Is it possible that I've grounded the system wrong?
I would like to send you a dxf vector file of the wiring diagram, but it is too large a file for this forum. I have some concern about parts of the wiring, and a vector file can be zoomed up for a better look. Could I send it to you by email?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mc on May 06, 2013, 07:46:20 AM
Most of the cnc4pc documents are available online - http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/JINAN2ESS.pdf

That is a regulated power supply. Are you sure that you never got the + and - wires mixed up?
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 06, 2013, 10:35:40 AM
What are your concerns?
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 06, 2013, 11:26:43 AM
Hood,
I'm sure I did not mix them up. The drawing I posted is the Jinnan2ESS pdf, I modified it to reflect my machine by simple adding the 4th axis and my VFD connections. Mine is different than the one they show. Arturo showed me how to connect the C41 to it.
My concern is why did the boards blow.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mc on May 06, 2013, 11:55:37 AM
First off, double check that you had the 5V connected up correctly, and the 5V is actually still 5V, as something on the powersupply side is the most likely thing to damage both boards.
There's no point looking at other issues, untill you are 100% confident that you have covered the basics (we all make stupid mistakes!)

Second, are the VFD connections in the diagram, the only connections you've made to the VFD (excluding the main power in/earth), and you've not connected the CN (Common) terminal to gnd at any point?
If you were to connect the Common terminal of most VFDs to ground, you can do a lot of damage, as most drives float this around mains voltage, so it would most likely damage something as soon as power was switched on. If you had done this, and you're power supply is protected by an RCD, the RCD should of tripped.

Other than those issues, I can't see anything else that could damage both boards. The C41 outputs are all opto-isolated (or at least they should be..) so any wiring issues on the output side should limit damage to that board, and any issues with the ESS wiring side is most likely to just damage the ESS itself, as I'd doubt enough current would get back through the ESS circuitry to put any major spike onto the 5V supply to damage the other board.

One other possiblity is something conductive i.e. a bit swarf/filing/stray screw/nut/washer has got on somewhere and shorted something it shouldn't off, but then that shouldn't of killed both boards, unless it caused an issue with the 5V supply.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 06, 2013, 03:10:32 PM
Hood my Friend,
There is no doubt in my mind that I made  a bo-bo, maybe more than one. It is also possible that some swarf shorted something, as I drilled holes in the cabinet, allthough I covered the boards. At this point everything is possible. I'll order those boards, it may take a week or two to get them. Until than I'll check everything thoroughly, and get back to you in a few days.
One more question, are you the same Hood Patrick, that put those how to build a hobby cnc videos on the web?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 06, 2013, 06:12:53 PM
LOL well that was mc that replied to you in the last post and no I am Hood, just plain and simple Hood, mostly simple ;D
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 08, 2013, 01:14:46 PM
Hello Hood,
Today I went out to the shop to recheck my wiring's. You were right, we all do stupid things sometimes. I did a big one, although it was totally unintentional, I know better. For some reason, I switched the positive and negative wires. I assume this why the boards blew, wrong polarity. Am I right?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 08, 2013, 01:25:37 PM
Yes wrong polarity will blow the ESS, if I recall there is a diode on it that will act like a fuse if the polarity is wrong. So if that is correct then should be a reasonably easy fix, contact Greg and he will let you know for sure.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 10, 2013, 09:20:18 AM
Hello Hood,
The new boards are on theire way. But before they arrive, I would like to ask you something about the  drivers wiring, particularly the way Arturo's drawing shows the drivers PUL- & DIR- bridged on all drivers and tied in series to the GND on the breakout board. I have seen examples the other way, PUL+ & DIR+ bridged and wired in series. My drivers were originally bridged to PUL+ & DIR+. I'm attaching picture of the way it was originally wired, and  the way Arturo shows it. Witch is correct? Where do the drivers get the 5 volt from, going by Arturo's drawing? I believe they ( the drivers) do need the 5 volt from somewhere.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 10, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
I have not looked up the data sheet for your specific drives but you should be able to connect them either way, ie either 5v common as previously or 5v gnd as Arturo is suggesting.

I think if unconnected the Enable will be active but again without actually looking at the specific data sheet I cant be 100% certain on that.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 10, 2013, 02:24:55 PM
If I was to wire 5 volt common and loop the drivers  together, than instead of connecting to GND on the BOB, it would have to be connected to a 5 volt terminal on the the BOB. Am I right Hood?
If I do it as Arturo shows it, than how do the drivers get the 5 volt they need to work? By now you can tell I'm not an electronics expert, but I need to understand this concept, as I have huge fear of burning another ESS. This months pension took a big loss already.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 10, 2013, 02:51:52 PM
Connecting 5v common will require that the Bob sinks the step and dir signals, ie they go to Gnd.
Connecting Gnd common will mean the BOB sources the step dir signals, ie it supplies 5v on step/dir signals.
If  Arturo is suggesting you connect common Gnd then that will likely be the way his BOB needs to be connected.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 10, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
I wired it as on Arturo's diagram. All I have to do now is wait for the boards to arrive. Thanks for explanation.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 10, 2013, 04:06:25 PM
No probs, did you contact Greg about your blown ESS?

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 10, 2013, 04:59:45 PM
Yes I did, He may or may not replace it for me free. A really nice guy. I sent the bad ones back to Arturo.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 10, 2013, 05:12:25 PM
Yes Greg is nice for sure, he may be able to repair it with some luck :)
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: rcaffin on May 11, 2013, 02:47:22 AM
Hi

I note that you have an eStop breaker on the mains input. Now this may look fine on paper, BUT it is going to create unholy strife for you. For a start, hitting eStop will mean the ESS will lose power. NOT GOOD!

Most power amplifiers have an Enable input. This is where you put the eStop signal. Also, most PAs have a Fault output. You should collect all the Fault signals and OR them together to drive a flip-flop. The flip-flop output should go to the Enables and to Mach. You will need a reset button to clear the flip-flop. A LED or a light off the flip-flop is almost mandatory so you can see when the hardware has faulted. You also need to be able to see the LEDs on the PAs, so you can see which one faulted.

Cheers
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 11, 2013, 06:59:35 AM
Hi rcaffin,
I thought the purpose of the the e-stop is to cut off all power in an emergency. I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage, you see i"m not an electronics engineer, just an fitter and turner. Have no clue what those abbreviated words mean.  The machine came to me as a whole CNC already wired up and working. All I'm trying to do is to convert it from USB to ESS. But please explain what will happen to the ESS if I hit the e-stop. Will it damage it (the ESS)?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 11, 2013, 08:15:37 AM
The purpose of the E-Stop is to stop your machine as quick as possible in as safe condition.
This can mean many things and involve many different methods depending on the machine itself.
For example removing the enables from a drive on a machine with friction on the axis will stop it very quickly, doing the same on a machine that has little friction (profile rails etc) can make it travel for quite a distance after the enable has been removed. Then of course there are axes that have gravity affecting them, that requires a brake on the axis so that when holding of the motor is removed it does not fall uncontrollably.

Also and E-Stop should ideally be multi layered, at its simplest is removing the power from the drives (by whatever means) and also informing the control (Mach) of an E-Stop situation so that Mach will halt the motion. A lot of people rely solely on the control issuing the E-Stop, this is not a god idea as if something goes wrong with the software then it will not stop, that is why a multi layered approach is best.

Also you do not really want to remove power (in most situations) from the control in an E-Stop, ie you want to keep Mach (and the ESS) ALIVE.

With your setup a simple approach could be to have a dual pole E-Stop, one NC one NO. The NC contacts would go to Mach via the E-Stop input and the NO contacts would connect to your drives enable signals. So what would happen in an E-Stop is the drives would get a signal on their Enable inputs which would disable them and at the same time Mach would get a signal on its E-Stop input and would halt motion. That is the minimum seup I would go for in your situation with your hardware.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 11, 2013, 10:02:56 AM
Hi Hood,
Thank you, that is a good explanation. I'm attaching photo of the what the switches look like from inside. I think they are the kind that you say they should be, but you be the judge. On my previous router (a US factory made one) I had the situation, that when I hit the e-stop the axis kept on going because the power was not cut off the BOB., remedied that by changing the e-stop with a dual one. The drawing that Arturo sent me, cuts off all the power from the machine, but by doing that will Mach also stop? I'm measuring 121 volt on the e-stop as well as on the main switch too. This is strange, because the main power to the machine is 220 volt.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 11, 2013, 11:28:36 AM
Would really need to see the other side to see what they are exactly. Even if they are E-Stops they shouldnt really be cutting the mains to everything.
You can have an E-Stop cut mains to drives in some situations, I do on some of my machines but not solely and really the E-Stop switch itself shouldnt do the mains switching, there sould really be an E-Stop string of a lower voltage which may disable a contactor that has the mains on it.


Regarding the 120v, that could be your location, if in the UK the mains are 240v per phase so your single phase mains consist of a live and a neutral. In the USA I think the 220v mains consists of two live lines of 110v each. If yo are in the USA then that will be why you are only getting 110v on the switch as there will just be one live and you will be measuring between it and a neutral or Earth.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 11, 2013, 03:34:12 PM
Hood,
They built it as 220 single phase. They sent me a  step up transformer from our 110 volt single phase to their 220.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 11, 2013, 04:18:04 PM
Where does the transformer connect into things? Is it external to the machine or is it internal?
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 11, 2013, 05:35:19 PM
It is external. from the wall outlet to the machine's electrical cabinet.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: rcaffin on May 11, 2013, 06:00:44 PM
Quote
I thought the purpose of the the e-stop is to cut off all power in an emergency.
Hood is right: you want the eStop to remove power from the motors so they do no harm.

Quote
what will happen to the ESS if I hit the e-stop.
The ESS will lose all its programming and it's connection to the computer, and you will have to (basically) stop and restart Mach before you can get the machine to do anything useful.

Cheers
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 11, 2013, 06:29:25 PM
So if you measure the output of the transformer what is it?
Is the transformer output two live wires or a live and neutral?
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 12, 2013, 07:21:04 AM
The transformers  output voltage is 220. It has two wires, 1 live (220) and one neutral.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 12, 2013, 10:06:58 AM
Hello Hood,
Now that we talk about e-stops, I should mention that I also bought a MPG2 and a C22 pendant control card from Arturo. I intent to implement it into my system. I didn't mentioned it yet because I want to get the system working first. The pendant has an e-stop button on it, and I want to use it to stop all axis motion in an emergency. The MPG came with wiring instructions, but it is written in Chinese. I'll attempt to translate it later. The e-stop is on the control cabinet on the floor, therefore it is not conveniently located in an emergency situation.
Mike
P.s. I'll connect the pendant control card to the ESS via a ribbon cable form the ESS's 3rd port.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 12, 2013, 01:35:35 PM
Dont know whats up with your voltage is it is as per the drawing you attached initially as there should be 220v over the switches if there is 220 coming in.

Regarding the pendant and the E-Stop then you can probably use that in addition to the other E-Stop, all depends on how it is wired in the pendant but as said you do not really want 220v on an e-stop circuit so I would take that E-Stop out of the mains and connect as mentioned earlier.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 12, 2013, 06:38:01 PM
I agree, I'll look for a dual layered e-stop switch. I will check that voltage across the switch again tomorrow. I should be seeing 220.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 13, 2013, 10:42:18 AM
Hi Hood,
About the incoming voltage, it is 240 volt, and that is what's on the e-stop too. I was wrong before.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 13, 2013, 04:59:16 PM
You may already have the E-Stop switch required, the pic with the switches shows what may be dual pole E-Stop switches but as said without seeing the other side I cant say for sure. Also contact configuration is not known from the pic, one certainly seems to be a Normally Open contact but cant really see the rest.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 14, 2013, 11:10:28 AM
Hood,
You have good eyes. The e-stop switch is a dual one, see the attached pictures. What ever way we'll implement it, it's location is no good for me, being one foot off the ground. If I have to, I'll put it on a pole of some kind, so I can hit it quickly. I thought the e-stop on the MPG would be more convenient.
On another note:   About grounding. There is a lot of info on the web about star grounding, but no pictures. So I put a terminal block in and tied all the grounds to it, including the shielding from the limit wires and the spindle motor's shield wire, and the power supply's GND. Did I do that right, or did I create a ground loop? (see picts)
Mike
Ps. On grounding3.jpg I show 2 snap on ferrite noise suppressors. Is it good to have them?
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 14, 2013, 02:45:23 PM
Well I would have both E-Stops in the chain assuming you can do that with the pendant one. Some pendants I have seen are totally unsafe with their implementation of E-Stops as they use USB, others have proper dedicated wiring for the E-Stop but even they may not be that safe as they go to a DB25 on a bob which just puts it into Mach as an E-Stop input.

Yes your grounding should be fine, assuming you have an earth from the mains connected there?

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 14, 2013, 03:10:28 PM
I did bring the earth from the wall to the cabinet, as there was none.
As for the MPG there is a pendant control card that I bought from Arturo. It connects to the ESS via ribbon cable. Arturo said something about connecting the e-stops in series, but I have no idea how. What wire to where? Here is a image of it.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 14, 2013, 03:50:44 PM
A magnification of the C22 terminals. The MPG needs 5 volt power, and gets it from the power supply, not the computer.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: rcaffin on May 14, 2013, 05:34:25 PM
Quote
Did I do that right, or did I create a ground loop?
If they all come to one central point withOUT connections at the far ends to make loops, that's good.

Quote
On grounding3.jpg I show 2 snap on ferrite noise suppressors. Is it good to have them?
Put ferriter noise suppressors on power leads (eg to DC motors), but NOT on any ground leads. Make the ground leads as short as is reasonably possible, and of heavy wire. If you have 2 wires to a motor, twist them together, ditto even for +5V power to a PCB.

Your wiring does look a bit messy. Try to tidy it up but keep power wires separate from signal wires, in different bundles. No, dressing the power wires together is not just 'pretties', it does help.

Cheers
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 15, 2013, 02:51:31 AM
It looks like the E-Stop on that board comes out to a relay, that is a good thing as it means you can do several things with it such as conecting as mentioned previously.
For example it would seem your relay has both normally open and normally closed contacts, so the normally open can feed to the  stepper drives enable inputs and the normally closed can feed to the ESS input as an E-Stop input. You can also put your other E-Stop switch in the chain just by connecting it in series with that relay.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 15, 2013, 07:48:40 AM
Hood,
The C25 break out board doesn't have an enable terminal.
stepper drives enable inputs?  Where is that at?
A while back, I touched on this subject with Arturo, and these are his replies:
Mike,
Please note that the original wiring diagram for your machine showed e-stop as removing power to the entire system. We did not change that, as that is how the original equipment manufacturer designed it, and I do not like changing this without been familiar with the machine.
In this case, I would suggest that you connect the enable in series with the existing e-stop button.
Please verify that power consumption of the system does not exceed the ratings of the relay.
Arturo Duncan
Hood, here I was referring to the wiring instruction for the C22 pendant interface board. And here is Arturo's reply:
Mike,
This wiring diagram does not apply to the C25 as the C25 does not have an external enable terminal.
Arturo Duncan
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 15, 2013, 11:40:51 AM
Hi rcaffin,
The ferrites I show are on the home switch wires. The reason they (wires) look messy now is, because on the picture the the ESS is missing, and the wires are just hanging there. There is one thing I don't understand:
Quote
No, dressing the power wires together is not just 'pretties', it does help.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 15, 2013, 01:22:18 PM
I am meaning the enables on your stepper drives. They really should be called Disables as when they are left unconnected the drives are enabled, that is why you could use the Normally Open contact on the E-Stop for them.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 15, 2013, 01:55:48 PM
Hood,
Now I kind of understand. What I really need is, for this wiring to be shown on the Jinan2 diagram. Is that possible?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 15, 2013, 02:24:13 PM
Do you have a version of that wiring diag that can be edited?
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 15, 2013, 03:08:32 PM
Yes, there is a R2010 ASCII.dxf file, it is 18.1MB, and a .dwg (Autocad) that is almost 30MB. How can I send one to you?
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 15, 2013, 03:34:57 PM
Hood,
I can compress it down to 872 KB as a .rar file, but i think it'll only work if I send it in an email.
Mike

PS. It did go thru on this forum.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 16, 2013, 07:33:18 AM
Ok I have tried to open but my cad is a PITA with large dxf's.
Is the C22 in that dxf?
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 16, 2013, 08:32:56 AM
No Hood, I inserted the pict of the C22 terminals into the drawing, tried to send it to you and the forum didn't accept it. I use DrafSight, ( a vector program) it is very similar to Autocad that I know. It is a free program, I downloaded it from the internet. I'll rename the rar file and try to send it again. Last year you gave me your email address to send a large file over to you. But I'll try to attach it to this message.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 16, 2013, 08:33:58 AM
Ok will have a look when I get time later today.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 16, 2013, 12:33:18 PM
 :-[I misspelled the name of  my vector program. It is DraftSight. :-[
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 17, 2013, 06:51:29 AM
Ok will have to try and look tonight if I get a chance, kind of busy at the moment :(
I did look at the C22 and it shows how to wire the E-Stop but I will check it out more thoroughly.
Can you tell me whether the pendants E-Stop switch is one or two pole and whether the pole/poles are NC or NO.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 17, 2013, 07:31:12 AM
Hood,
I have no idea, but these are the only information's I have of the MPG. Hope you can find out from them.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 17, 2013, 10:21:59 AM
Ok it is just a single pole switch. I will have a proper look over the C22 wiring manual tohnight and draw up a quick sketch of wiring for the E-Stop.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 17, 2013, 05:46:12 PM
Ok no drawing but I will explain how I would connect and hopefully it will help you, if you dont understand ask I will try and be clearer.

Your E-Stop on your pendant is single pole Normally Closed so that will wire into the C22 as per its manual.

Now when you hit the E-Stop on the Pendant it takes the power away from the relay on the C22.
 So if you connect the common terminal of the relay to 5v you can then connect the Normally Open contact of the relay to your breakout board Input and then configure that as the E-Stop in Mach.
In addition to that you can take the Normally Closed terminal from the relay and put it into each of your stepper drives Enable +. You then connect the Enable - of each drive to 0v (Gnd) of your BOB.

What will happen is, when the Pendants E-Stop is pushed it cuts the power to the relay so the Normally Open contact Opens and that signals an E-Stop to Mach. At the same time the Normally Closed contact on the relay closes and that then puts a signal into the drives enables which actually disables them, so you have the E-Stop taking the drives enable away as well as informing Mach of an E-Stop situation.

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 18, 2013, 07:05:11 AM
Thanks Hood,
I"ll try to understand all that, it is clear enough, but for now it is a waiting game. I still don't have the replacement boards. It is Victoria day long weekend here in Canada, I think it is the same for you also, so have a nice weekend.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 18, 2013, 02:27:59 PM
No holiday here, there was one a week or so back, not that I take Holidays, dont work hard enough to need them ;D

You will notice I never mentioned the second E-Stop switch, you can put that in the circuit if you wish but from what you said previously you dont really have good access to it so maybe best just leaving it wired as is and just use a a main kill switch.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 21, 2013, 08:38:27 AM
What is wrong with this forum Hood? I'm trying to send you a reply, first it times out, than the 6MB file is too large, than when I compress it, it says it's been sent already, rename it. When I do that it says it's been sent already, re submit it. When I do that, it says this message has been sent already. I'm very frustrated.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 21, 2013, 10:20:13 AM
Hi Hood,
I am trying to send it again.

I'll get back to the MPG issue a bit later. But for now, I would like to get the Mach3 configurations going. At least to get the ports & pins assigned according the wiring diagram. I'm attaching a DXF vector file of the C25 as the wiring is done. I broke Arturo's drawing up, so I don't get confused with all those lines. I'm a bit at loss as to how to assign the ports and pins, since everything is on port one. Is it possible that you could give me a basic XML file to get me going, based on this wiring?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 21, 2013, 04:57:36 PM
Ok I struggled to see the dxf, in draftsight it was all black, in Dolphin its very light ;D
Anyway have attached a basic xml, should be enough to get you started.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 21, 2013, 05:44:38 PM
Thanks Hood. I'll look at it tomorrow.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 22, 2013, 10:08:35 AM
Hood,
I got the replacement boards yesterday, but before I install them, I want to get Mach to get to the point where it'll bring the machine up to some extent.
I copied the mvoros.xml file to Mach3 directory. As it is now, when Mach opens nothing is set in any of the configurations. The old xml file is still in the xmlbackup folder.  Should I delete what's in that folder?
Anyway, I'm sorry about the BOB file not showing good. Can you import a DWG (autocad) file? You see the dwg file is only about 500KB, the dxf one is almost 3MB.
Mike

Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 22, 2013, 02:22:58 PM
You will have to use the Mach3Loader to open Mach and you will see mvoros in the list, you can then choose it and Mach will open and the settings should be there.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 22, 2013, 03:17:26 PM
Hood,
Now that you mention it, there used to be a Mach loader, but I must have deleted it from my desktop in the past. What I did do before I got your reply I renamed the mvoros.xml to Jcut.xml since that what I used before. It worked, the settings that you made are all in there.
Can you tell me what Kernel speed should I put in? Also I get this pop up window: Estop not assigned to an ethernet smoothstepper input.
On port 1 I have pin 15 and 17 unassigned. Will there be only one wire needed for the estop? Can I assign pin 15 for it?
Another question:
On Mach's ports & pins window, it says step pin and dir pin, on Arturos diagram it is PUL and Dir. Is the PUL the same as the step in Mach?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 22, 2013, 03:44:20 PM
Ok you dont have the E-Stop wired at the moment so if you just set the E-Stop to port 1 pin 10 then you will likely have to change it to Active Low until you do hook up a switch.
Dont set any Kernel in Mach when using an external device. For the Smoothstepper you would set the frequency for each axis in its config.

Yes Pulse is another way of saying Step

Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 22, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Thanks Hood,
For further correspondents should we start a new thread? This one is getting big.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 22, 2013, 05:42:40 PM
Whatever you want, wont make much difference although if it still relates to info in this thread then probably best to continue here so people can look back to see what it relates to.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 22, 2013, 06:56:41 PM
OK my friend, we'll stay with it.
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 23, 2013, 08:38:16 AM
Good morning Hood,
I'm working on Mach's configurations. I need to ask you, about the ports & pins. What am I to put in for the axis + and - signals? Also on the ESS Plug in Dialogue page there are things to set, what are they need to be? I'm attaching 2 images.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 24, 2013, 11:28:43 AM
Hello Hood,
I found a website regarding the "Guide for implementing the MPG2 and configuring Mach" for it. The only difference I can see is that instead of LPT2 I'll have it connected to LPT3 that is on the ESS. As of now there is nothing connected to LPT2. Please look at this instruction and let me know if I can follow it to a letter. There are informations on it that I don't yet have.
Mike

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/guide_for_MPG4_over_LPT2.htm
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 25, 2013, 02:46:56 AM
If you will be using the same switches for limits then you will input the same pins as the homes are for each axis. If you will be using seperate switches then you will enter whichever port and pins you connect them to.

Regarding the ESS, I am not sure if you should have a blank page like that, I would have thought it should have started with default values so make sure it is installed correctly and that you have the drivers installed for it also.

What you do need to set up are the frequencies for each axis you are using. You want to set them to the lowest value you need. ie if for example your steps per unit were 20,000 and your velocity 100 then that would require 20,000 x 100 /60 = 33,333.333333333333 Hz or 33.33333khZ so you would pick the next value in the list above that, from memory I would think 35KHz.
 The controller frequency I would try at 2KHz, the faster you can set it the better things like feedhold will work however if set too high for your computers capabilities then you will get run out of data errors.

Hood.

Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 25, 2013, 08:42:42 AM
Hood,
I tried to input vales into the plug in config page and to Mach's input limits, it says to reboot Mach. After opening Mach again, none of my settings are there. Is it because I don't have the computer connected?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 25, 2013, 10:19:31 AM
You need the ESS connected before any of its config settings will be taken.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 27, 2013, 10:48:07 AM
Hood,
I did connect the ESS.
When I open Mach3 (ver R3.043.066) it tells me: "Wake up client board doesn't reply". I've configured Mach to except the ESS weeks ago, but I think it didn't save the settings to the xml. It did show that it found the plug in, and it also showed up in the device page. The ESS plug in version is: -v10hd2.
Now I realise that I have to set up Mach & the ESS again. I read in one of the forums, that Jeff Birt suggested to a guy (Frank), that he should remove the 066 version of Mach, and install 062 instead, because 066 behaves strangely. And I did experience strange behavior in other areas of Mach. Also, when I click on the plugins, the ESS config page, has nothing in it.
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 27, 2013, 01:52:54 PM
"Wake up client board doesn't reply"
To me sounds like you do not have the address set correctly in the ESS or in your ethernet connection.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: mvoros on May 28, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
Hi Hood,
Well I managed to get the ESS to work with Mach ver. 3.043.062. The problem now is that I can't get Mach to reset, and therefore my configurations are not saved after clicking on apply. The reset botton is flashing and has green border around it. It says: Press reset, emergency mode active.
What could be the problem?
Mike
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Hood on May 28, 2013, 01:22:00 PM
You will need to tell Mach/ESS which port and pin your E-Stop is connected to. If you dont have one at the moment (not recommended) then you can change the active state of the E-Stop in Ports and Pins, Inputs page. That will allow you to take Mach out of Reset.
Hood
Title: Re: My retrofit nightmare
Post by: Chaoticone on May 28, 2013, 01:23:55 PM
Mike, I'm only guessing but it could be that you have an estop or limit switch active.  You might be able to go into ports and pins and change their active state to get to the point you can reset.  You should probably make a note of how they are set before the changes you make in case you have to revert.  Looking on the diagnostics screen to see if any limits of estops are active should help you narrow it down a little before you adjust your switches active state.

Brett